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By yiwahikanak
#13654823
Cheesecake_Marmalade wrote:The only nice guys that don't get tail are the ones that always complain about it.


That's been my experience.

Nothing is more of a turn off than a guy who starts talking about how women all like 'bad guys' and why don't women like Nice Guys like him?

The Nice Guys are quick to pull out various other awful stereotypes about women, which isn't great pick up material. It also really makes you wonder about where they hang out that all their experiences reinforces all these awful things they believe about women and what women are and aren't attracted to.

Nice Guys seem to spend waaay too much time confused about how to 'pick up women' compared to those who just go out and give it a shot.
By Zyx
#13654835
You make good points yiwahikanak. However both superficiality and modesty play a role in all of this.

Quite honestly, in our individualistic culture, it's a matter of being self-important that makes one approach another on the streets. "Who am I to offer for you to shake my hand?"

Then there's the whole "Given that I am no one, how will you judge me but based upon your preconceived notions of beauty?"

It doesn't matter that you're one of the foremost intellectual powerhouses, since you can't tell a woman that anyway. :hmm:

Chomsky doesn't have to introduce himself. But if he does introduce himself, he doesn't do self-exaltation. To strangers he's just an ugly old man. Which is bad in two ways. He's judged for his looks and he's unknown in his own community. All of our stories!
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By Cheesecake_Marmalade
#13654836
Wiki wrote:In the story, social equality has been achieved by handicapping the more intelligent, athletic or beautiful members of society. For example, strength is handicapped by the requirement to carry weight, beauty by the requirement to wear a mask and so on. All this equality is due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the United States Constitution. This process is central to the society, designed so that no one will feel inferior to anyone else. Handicapping is overseen by the United States Handicapper General, Diana Moon Glampers.

Harrison Bergeron, the protagonist of the story, has exceptional intelligence, strength, and beauty, and thus has to bear enormous handicaps. These include headphones that play distracting noises, three hundred pounds of weight strapped to his body, wavy eyeglasses designed to give him headaches and cause render him half blind when worn, a red rubber ball on his nose, black caps on his teeth, and shaven eyebrows. Despite these societal handicaps, he is able to invade a TV station, declare himself Emperor, strip himself of his handicaps, then dance with a ballerina whose handicaps he has also discarded. Both are shot dead by the brutal and relentless Handicapper General, who demonstrates the hypocrisy of such equality in the first place. The story is framed by an additional perspective from Bergeron's parents, who are watching the incident on TV, but because of his father's handicaps, and his mother's merely average intelligence, they cannot concentrate enough to remember it.

Also Zyx, you're just taking another level of superficiality- intelligence- and trying to use that as some kind of basis for why you SHOULD be getting laid. :roll:
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By El Gilroy
#13654840
People should get laid...based on their sexual prowess? On their need for sex? On what?

I'm thinking this debate is an especially pointless one. Some get, some don't, some more, some less. It's never about deserving to get, and always about being able to get.
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By yiwahikanak
#13654842
Zyx wrote:You make good points yiwahikanak. However both superficiality and modesty play a role in all of this.

Quite honestly, in our individualistic culture, it's a matter of being self-important that makes one approach another on the streets. "Who am I to offer for you to shake my hand?"

Then there's the whole "Given that I am no one, how will you judge me but based upon your preconceived notions of beauty?"

It doesn't matter that you're one of the foremost intellectual powerhouses, since you can't tell a woman that anyway. :hmm:


The 'modern' man faces many obstacles. One of the most obvious is access to available females. This is an age old problem of course, it just happens to be somewhat different these days. If you aren't in school then you won't meet women that way. If you aren't working, there are fewer chances to meet interesting coworkers or clients (though that's a bit of a sticky issue anyway). If you hang out at meat markets but can't stand the kind of women that frequent those places, then the 'availability' of women isn't helping you any.

Then you have the further selection issue of what kind of woman you actually want. Meat market bars are convenient but again, if that's not your thing they are disappointing. Where do the non-meat market girls hang out? How do you get into their 'social circles' to meet them?

Socialisation is a damned hard thing to do sometimes, if you don't have the social circles built up already.

*hint*...calling yourself 'one of the foremost intellectual powerhouses' is more likely to signal to a woman that you are unbearably arrogant than anything else. As was pointed out in another thread, there is a fairly strong cross-cultural disdain of braggarts no matter how may believe this title to be true.

Anyway, being in the 'right' circles that contain women you would actually be interested in getting together with is...well, it can be difficult. Finding potential partners is going to be hard if you have standards.

And if you don't, closing time at the meat market will probably land you with someone who doesn't care what you look like.
By Zyx
#13654854
Cheesecake_Marmalade, I tried not to call you a crypto-fascist but quoting Ayn Rand's cousins ain't helping the case. Why in the world are you sharing that pathetic story? 213th amendment to the constitution is by far one of the dumbest literary suggestion in the world. We didn't even break thirty in over two hundred years, yet someone will write about the 213th? Ridiculous! Then the story's concept is just stupid. Oi vey!

Cheesecake_Marmalade wrote: you're just taking another level of superficiality- intelligence-


Where do you get this from? "Intelligence" is superficiality? What in the world? That nonsense was so twenty-seven years ago.

Cheesecake_Marmalade wrote: trying to use that as some kind of basis for why you SHOULD be getting laid.


More like why appearance should be overlooked. :knife:

yiwahikanak wrote:*hint*...calling yourself 'one of the foremost intellectual powerhouses' is more likely to signal to a woman that you are unbearably arrogant than anything else. As was pointed out in another thread, there is a fairly strong cross-cultural disdain of braggarts no matter how may believe this title to be true.


I agree with much of your post. I do not brag, but I should. There's a song that I learned of "Young, gifted and Black" and it speaks toward how Blacks, in particular, are modest.

And if I may say so myself, creating the ethical system at twenty is no small feat. Shiiittt, if anyone can brag, I sure can!

But I do not brag.

As it were, beside from the internet, I have only met women at dances. I have gone to cultural events and espied women there all their lonesome, but I find it hard approaching them. One time a man helped me approach a particularly attractive specimen but it was at 'a meat market' and so whereas I got her number my beginning phone call disqualified me. Still, I think that it's absurdly pretentious and uninviting to speak to someone at a cultural or intellectual event. I want to start trying but I just find it poor in character and setting myself up for criticisms on the part of other participants, who, though getting laid, find it kind of odd that someone doesn't respect 'time and place.'

In other words, regardless of how much I've read or written, like all others, I am a fool. :*(

For instance, in a library, there were two very attractive young women, lining up to speak to an author of a work relating to Black history. I'm more than versed in the topic personally and these women shared eye contact with me enough that I probably could have spoken with them. The thing is--Why would I speak to them? Like what would I say? In retelling this it may seem that I can say "I'm well versed . . ." but it's hard in the situation. With the author in question himself sitting so close by.
Last edited by Zyx on 15 Mar 2011 00:23, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By El Gilroy
#13654856
There's always internet dating sites, or whatever they're called. Purely purpose-bound and all that, aren't they pretty much the ideal solution to the availability problem?
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By Cheesecake_Marmalade
#13654858
Zyx, you think that Kurt Vonnegut is comparable to Ayn Rand? :lol:

So much for intellectual powerhouse, amirite?

Where do you get this from? "Intelligence" is superficiality? What in the world? That nonsense was so twenty-seven years ago.

Yep. Intelligence is useful in that it lets us create tools and forms of social organization, but as a way of judging who you should fuck it is useless.
By Zyx
#13654860
El Gilroy wrote:There's always internet dating sites, or whatever they're called. Purely purpose-bound and all that, aren't they pretty much the ideal solution to the availability problem?


No, internet dating is very superficial. Worse, the characters thereon are usually 'flawed' insofar as my assessment is concerned. For instance, very busy or awkwardly selective (wanting sports men or enjoying films!!! :p )

Cheesecake_Marmalade wrote:Zyx, you think that Kurt Vonnegut is comparable to Ayn Rand? :lol:


I have never performed fellatio, C_M.

The theme is certainly Randian. "Society handicapping people . . .."

Cheesecake_Marmalade wrote:Yep. Intelligence is useful in that it lets us create tools and forms of social organization, but as a way of judging who you should fuck it is useless.


I never wrote that I created tools or formed social organizations, you're tagging me for your own reasons.

I do not even know what you're trying to write. How is an education a 'superficial' quality?
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13654863
Zyx wrote:
I agree with much of your post. I do not brag, but I should. There's a song that I learned of "Young, gifted and Black" and it speaks toward how Blacks, in particular, are modest.

And if I may say so myself, creating the ethical system at twenty is no small feat. Shiiittt, if anyone can brag, I sure can!

But I do not brag.


No, I wouldn't call what you do bragging, per se. It's much more grandiose.
Zyx wrote:

As it were, beside from the internet, I have only met women at dances. I have gone to cultural events and espied women there all their lonesome, but I find it hard approaching them. One time a man helped me approach a particularly attractive specimen but it was at 'a meat market' and so whereas I got her number my beginning phone call disqualified me. Still, I think that it's absurdly pretentious and uninviting to speak to someone at a cultural or intellectual event. I want to start trying but I just find it poor in character and setting myself up for criticisms on the part of other participants, who, though getting laid, find it kind of odd that someone doesn't respect 'time and place.'

In other words, regardless of how much I've read or written, like all others, I am a fool. :*(

For instance, in a library, there were two very attractive young women, lining up to speak to an author of a work relating to Black history. I'm more than versed in the topic personally and these women shared eye contact with me enough that I probably could have spoken with them. The thing is--Why would I speak to them? Like what would I say? In retelling this it may seem that I can say "I'm well versed . . ." but it's hard in the situation. With the author in question himself sitting so close by.


How does anyone start a conversation? Of course it's hard. It gets easier.

You already have the 'no'. Might as well give it a shot and see if it can change to 'yes'.
User avatar
By Twister
#13654865
Yep. Intelligence is useful in that it lets us create tools and forms of social organization, but as a way of judging who you should fuck it is useless.


*makes note*
By Zyx
#13654866
yiwahikanak wrote:No, I wouldn't call what you do bragging, per se. It's much more grandiose.


If Chomsky says "I'm that guy who tours the world calling out the big wigs for the sake of humanity" is that bragging or grandiose?

Why can't Chomsky say that without people being irked?

yiwahikanak wrote:You already have the 'no'. Might as well give it a shot and see if it can change to 'yes'.


Yes. Conceptually it's easy but it's still very hard. I walked into a train noticing a woman staring at me so I said "Hello." No response. End of that.

I want to recite my cool poem, but I don't know how people react to poems.

But I will try. I just find it too self-important. My elderly friend can call a woman over very easily. But she has a magnetism that I just don't have.
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By yiwahikanak
#13654873
Zyx wrote:
If Chomsky says "I'm that guy who tours the world calling out the big wigs for the sake of humanity" is that bragging or grandiose?

Why can't Chomsky say that without people being irked?


Because Chomsky has actually made a name for himself. People know who he is. Whether linguistically or politically, he's put himself out there, he's defended the ideas that got him notoriety and all of this should be quite obvious.

If he had made those claims before he did anything, or anyone knew about what he did, he'd be rightfully called a braggart with delusions of grandeur.

And even if you are noted in one field that doesn't mean you are at all important or interesting, or someone that should be given attention. Expecting people to care about you for anything other than what you can immediately present to them via your interactions is a bit strange, imo. Someone might admire you for one thing and be oblivious to something else you like about yourself...it's an issue of personal preference as well. I mean...I could care less how much money someone makes for example. Anyone who brags about their income immediately makes me suspect they are a materialistic, vacuous waste of my time. Others might find that a draw.

There's one thing tackier than someone who talks themselves up...and it's a name dropper. I guess the two are related, however.

Zyx wrote:
Yes. Conceptually it's easy but it's still very hard. I walked into a train noticing a woman staring at me so I said "Hello." No response. End of that.

I want to recite my cool poem, but I don't know how people react to poems.

But I will try. I just find it too self-important. My elderly friend can call a woman over very easily. But she has a magnetism that I just don't have.


Practice makes perfect and it really does get easier as you develop social 'tricks'.

Edit:

I read the poem. It's not horrible. You could probably do well at an open mic with that, if you practiced your delivery. And if you had to fake seeming 'easy and relaxed', it'd be worth it.

I think people can smell out the self-conscious...and self-consciousness is not attractive to anyone other than predators.
By Zyx
#13654877
yiwahikanak wrote:If he had made those claims before he did anything, or anyone knew about what he did, he'd be rightfully called a braggart with delusions of grandeur.


This just doesn't make sense. If before his fame he was talking "I'm going to be famous" or "I'll soon have books" blah blah, why would that be inappropriate? I just don't get it. Can't someone be excited of his own achievements?

yiwahikanak wrote: your interactions is a bit strange, imo.


I don't know. I find it strange that one should not drop his name when his name should be dropped.

I mean, Jesus went around telling people that he was the son of God and people worshiped him!

Today you can't tell people that you wrote a book lest you want to be scorned. :roll:

yiwahikanak wrote:Practice makes perfect and it really does get easier as you develop social 'tricks'.


Yes. But meanwhile you miss all the good girls and they go for the bad. Sigh. :*(
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By yiwahikanak
#13654889
Zyx wrote:This just doesn't make sense. If before his fame he was talking "I'm going to be famous" or "I'll soon have books" blah blah, why would that be inappropriate? I just don't get it. Can't someone be excited of his own achievements?


Hehehehe...I think saying "I'm going to be famous!" is different than saying, "I have a book coming out" which is also different than saying, "one day I'll have books published".

Zyx wrote:
I don't know. I find it strange that one should not drop his name when his name should be dropped.

I mean, Jesus went around telling people that he was the son of God and people worshiped him!

:eek:

Zyx wrote:Today you can't tell people that you wrote a book lest you want to be scorned. :roll:


Everyone has written a book, to hear people talk. Do you have one published? I think at that point, there'd be nothing wrong with saying, "I have a book published". That's not necessarily something to go on and on about, however. I mean, if you've written a book of really obscure poetry for example...and the person you're talking to doesn't like poetry, do you really think they'll care that you've accomplished this?

Most people have some sort of accomplishments that are genuinely interesting...but to start right in talking about it is weird. For example, I met a girl at a party and discovered she lived in Costa Rica for a while, rehabilitating big cats like jaguars who had belonged to drug lords and had been seized or abandoned. She had a huge scar on her calf from where one had bitten her as a warning. I thought this was really interesting...but if she'd opened with, "well I did this and that and wow, I'm like one of the few people in the world who has ever done such a thing"...you can imagine what a turn off that'd be. I hope.

There's also a difference between being modest, being falsely modest, and being self-effacing.

Zyx wrote:
Yes. But meanwhile you miss all the good girls and they go for the bad. Sigh. :*(


I thought you didn't respect women who go for creeps anyway...why would you want them?
By Zyx
#13654896
yiwahikanak wrote:Hehehehe...I think saying "I'm going to be famous!" is different than saying, "I have a book coming out" which is also different than saying, "one day I'll have books published".


Well, I don't talk about my work lest pressed. But I don't pretend that my work is unimportant.
yiwahikanak wrote:well I did this and that and wow, I'm like one of the few people in the world who has ever done such a thing"...you can imagine what a turn off that'd be. I hope.


I don't get it. Why does reveling in one's accomplishments make for a turn-off?

yiwahikanak wrote:I thought you didn't respect women who go for creeps anyway...why would you want them?


The unsocialized women are too young for me. :knife:
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By yiwahikanak
#13654901
Zyx wrote:
Well, I don't talk about my work lest pressed. But I don't pretend that my work is unimportant.


No, you sure don't.

Then again, that obscure book of poetry? Not necessarily important to people other than obscure poetry fans. Do you see where I'm going with that?

Zyx wrote:
I don't get it. Why does reveling in one's accomplishments make for a turn-off?


No. Revealing is what she did when she very naturally answered my question about where she learned to speak Spanish with a Costa Rican accent. Bragging and behaving like a silly ass is what she would have done had she attempted to start the conversation that way.

Zyx wrote:The unsocialized women are too young for me. :knife:


Ah this is one of those silly 'omg they're all like that' moments.
By Zyx
#13654905
yiwahikanak wrote: Do you see where I'm going with that?


Yes, but to whom is philosophy unimportant?

All people are compelled toward liberators, yet only philosophy defines freedom. In this regard, 'defining freedom,' what I do is incredibly important.

yiwahikanak wrote:No. Revealing is what she did when she very naturally answered my question about where she learned to speak Spanish with a Costa Rican accent.


I can hold my tongue. The matter is on opening my mouth. How did this conversation start for you? Third-party introduction?

yiwahikanak wrote:Ah this is one of those silly 'omg they're all like that' moments.


Socialization is powerful. You have said as much today.
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By yiwahikanak
#13654916
Zyx wrote:
Yes, but to whom is philosophy unimportant?

All people are compelled toward liberators, yet only philosophy defines freedom. In this regard, 'defining freedom,' what I do is incredibly important.


Plenty of people find 'formal' philosophy about as interesting as watching paint dry. Or...they may disagree entirely with your approach. Anyway.

Zyx wrote:
I can hold my tongue. The matter is on opening my mouth. How did this conversation start for you? Third-party introduction?


Sort of. Birthday party for a friend, she was a friend of a friend, we introduced ourselves but didn't start talking then. She dropped something and swore in Spanish, so I made a dirty joke in Spanish and asked how she'd learned that idiomatic curse. Then we just kept talking, because we were both interested in what the other had to say.

Not all conversations go like that. Some people, you dig a little, and find they are really not 'your type' of person.

Zyx wrote:
Socialization is powerful. You have said as much today.


It's not monolithic, no do I believe your portrayals are accurate...unless you've been hanging around those meat market bars I warned you about...
By Zyx
#13654921
yiwahikanak wrote:Plenty of people find 'formal' philosophy about as interesting as watching paint dry. Or...they may disagree entirely with your approach. Anyway.


Pssh, no formal philosophy here. More importantly, I hardly discuss the matter in detail. The conclusion is most important. And I do not bother to disclose that. But meh.

yiwahikanak wrote:unless you've been hanging around those meat market bars I warned you about...


I want a woman who loves knowledge. Society is anti-knowledge for some reason or another.
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