[U184]

So many people rag and bitch about the United Sates. There is so much Anti-American BS that it has became accepted main stream. Don't you dare talk about my country or my people but hey look an American go talk about him/her and it is fine. It happens on this site as well, often.

The problem is, so many people have gotten so used to liberties they believe those liberties should extend to a persons personal beliefs and the things a person says in regards to those beliefs.

This just is not the case. Learn the difference between racism and personal opinion.

One could state "I hate all Americans!" or blacks or Jews or whatever. This is where people are out of line. "I hate all Americans because, ...." see that is an opinion, one that will offend many people but is not racist. The person making the statement is racist or harbors some personal reason for those beliefs but he also has the right to state his case.

See, freedom of speech is for everyone. With those freedoms comes a certain amount of tolerance to peoples opinions.

You don't like a specific term "ban it" you don't like a name used as slang "ban it" with the wave of a hand it is gone. What you lose besides those words is the sentiment and the reasons for WHY one would use the words.

With open debate or even outright arguments people can express them selves without guns and with no chance for violence. Using words and ideas and opinions.

Limiting the words is one thing limiting the ability for someone to express their opinions, another. With to many limitations one will become frustrated that they are not allowed to express them selves and this will undo everything this kind of forum is meant to be for.

Fight your battles but choose the ones that are worth fighting for. Try to remember just because you do not like something does not mean it is wrong.

Instead of yelling and complaining about not liking something try to PROVE the persons outlook is wrong, change their mind, alter their reality.


Just a thought.

[W01f]

American isn't a race. One can't be a racist for hating Americans.

This is where people are out of line. "I hate all Americans because, ...." see that is an opinion, one that will offend many people but is not racist.

So I can say "I hate all purple people because they are stupid, ugly and fat", and that's not racist? There is such a thing as racist opinions...

[QatzelOk]

When people bitch about America, they aren't bitching about the idiosyncrasies of its citizens.

They are complaining about the behavior of the political construct that is the United States, and all the atrocities that the citizens commit in the name of its greatness.

[U184]

This is where people are out of line. "I hate all Americans because, ...." see that is an opinion, one that will offend many people but is not racist.

The original draft was..

This is where people are out of line. "I hate all Jews because, ...." see that is an opinion, one that will offend many people but is not racist.

But I did not want to be rude.

[ElDiabloBlanco]

On one hand, America does have to stop being so pro-Zionist and pro-Israeli, and Americans need to be less trendy and stop sucking the corporate teat. But Europe is far worse, full of bureaucracies and effete multiculti leftism, not to mention "internationalism".

But no, "American" is not a race.

[The Antiist]

Anti-Americanism isn't racism. That's more likely to be thought up by a passionate nationalist. But I agree it's incredibly superficial to attack an entire country or people. Sometimes it's better to ignore anyway.

[U184]

Stop focusing on one part of a post when it is obviously not the clear point of the OP.

However.

Americans is a race of people. Just as much as the French or the Chinese. The term RACE is meant on many levels. Ultimately the problem of who is or is not a race of people evolves around whether or not races are natural types or socially constructed.

One could lump all white, black, yellow, brown and red peoples into a tiny little box but that is not practical.

Lets use the blacks as an example. The majority of Blacks live and their genetic stock come from Africa. Are all blacks then JUST African? is that their personal name for their race or do they break it down further for Geo-social ties?

Algeria, Angola, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Congo, Republic of, Congo, Democratic Republic of The,Cote d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe

Are these all people who are solly of the African race? Or are these people Algerians and Egyptions and Nigerians who all have a racil identity that goes further then being merely African? or Black?

Time has had man travel the world, we settle here, we travel there, each place adding to and changing the culture they started out with. Eventually that culture turns in to a new culture and with a new cultural identity, comes a new perception of them as a people and thus as a RACE.

We are either ALL of the Human Race or we are all Humans who share the earth and we become a people/race. You are what you are and all that is determined, genetically and environmentally and socially and geographicly.

[ElDiabloBlanco]

You are what you are and all that is determined, genetically and environmentally and socially and geographicly.

You are what you are, but "American" isn't a genetic/anthropological term. It's an ethno-national group, generally a subset of a race, but "American" happens to be a multracial ethnicity.

[U184]

Reread the above. 99% of all races on earth are of multracial ethnicity.

"American" isn't a genetic/anthropological term. It's an ethno-national group, generally a subset of a race

All such Nations can be classed as such.

Try taking in my last post as a whole, rather then nit picking one single aspect.

[QatzelOk]

This is where people are out of line. "I hate all Jews because, ...." see that is an opinion, one that will offend many people but is not racist.

Like "American," "Jewish" isn't a race or ethnicity either. Aside from its roots as a religion (with its own society), it has become - for most Jews - a global society that sometimes encourages its members to commit atrocities in the name of the greatness of this constructed collective identity.

[Admin edit: Don't confuse nationality with religion]

Like Kumatto mentionned in another thread, the "slaves" of both American and Jewish social constructs are encouraged to internalize the "heroic greatness" of their masters. Americans are supposed to feel great about "having" rich CEOs in the same social construct as their slave selves, and Jews are supposed to feel great about "having" great Nobel Prize winners and filthy rich bankers among their collective identity.

The heroic mythology about "triumphing against an evil outside world" is common to both hegemonic identities.

(Edited to conform with warning)

[U184]

While it may seem easy to say, "this is not so" or "this is not a race". Then blah blah. It lends no credibility to what you are saying.

What, you do not like my position? You do not agree with what I said, here or here?

Fine. Break it down, tell me about it. But to say "NO" or "YOUR WRONG" because "I said so" is less then ideal.


Look "all the people in Gaza" are evil "Pally-woods" are evil, yada yada. BY your ideals these people may not be a "race" yet when someone takes offense to what they believe is their race then the POINT of the OP would come into play.

As stated race is either, A: we are all Human B: we are all separated by Color or C: we are all separated by time culture and geographical location.

Need a more in depth idea of what I mean? Then read the above post on the subject.

However if you want to debate, bring your a game and try supporting your position with facts.

[The Antiist]

Scientists do not even agree that real races exist. Strictly speaking, race doesn't really exist anyway. Why should nationality, then, be the equivalent of race? It doesn't make sense. It's just useful for you to invoke the word racism in order to provoke sympathy or shock or other emotions that suit your political standpoints.

[U184]

Agreed.

[sploop!]

I agree with that, too. Race is a convenient fiction.

[MB.]

Well duh.

[U184]

I think tough that when people say "my race" they think in terms of what I said above. As far as the socially constructed race concept we our nationalities become our race. Far into the future when the maps are new and we are a footnote to a unkown man a canadian or an american will be a term of race not national place of birth.

[ElDiabloBlanco]

Race is a convenient fiction.

Bullshit. Differences in physical appearance are apparent to anyone with eyes. Testosterone level differences have been proven. Genetic haplotypes, which conform to regular racial boundaries, exist. Political correctness doesn't change anthropology or genetics.

[Orange]

I have a question for you all.

Do you think there is a divide between popular opinion on race and scientific opinion? Popular sentiment seems to be that race doesn't exist, that IQ is a fabrication, and that all people are perfectly, mathematically, geometrically the same in every way and in every capacity. Any differences that do exist are caused by white wickedness.

I have long been of the same opinion, but the following surveys have caused me to have doubts:

1.) 1,020 scientists within the fields of psychology, sociology, cognitive science, education, and genetics were surveyed and it was found that 53% of them thought that the racial IQ gap was mostly or partially genetic, and only 17% thought that it was entirely environmental. (The IQ Controversy, by Rothman)

2.) A survey of American anthropologists found that 69 percent of them accepted the concept of biological race (Leiberman and Reynolds, 1996).

3.) A statement by Linda Gottfriedson (published in Intelligence in 1997), which advocated a genetic explanation for the racial IQ gap, was signed by 52 internationally renowned experts. ("Mainstream Science on Intelligence", 1997)

4.) A survey of eastern European anthropologists found that 75 percent of them agree with the statement: "There are biological races within the species Homo sapiens." (Kaszycka, 2003).

What do you think? Is there a divide between popular opinion and scientific opinion on race and intelligence?

And is it racist to agree with scientists on questions of race?

[QatzelOk]

all people are perfectly, mathematically, geometrically the same

Not "the same," --- equal.

All people are equal.

This is because all humans have qualities that no other human being can really judge the utility of magnificance of.

To try to judge humans on the basis of value is to set yourself up as some kind of God.

Tyrants are always doing this.

[R_G]

The OP is right.

You need reasoning.

I personally have no complete racial hatred for any ethnicity.

I do however have a founding bias against certain ethnicities for numerous reasons, and I accept some exceptions.

My example would be, I personally, have a bias against Romania for its historically high abortion and prostitution rates, higher than other countries with similair economic lows.

As far as Romanian people go, I have the belief from personal experience, and stats, that most are uneducated, criminal and relatively leftist.

Am I blatantly racist? No, I do not think so, I'm not going around breaking windows.