[millie_(A)TCK]

Yemen and Somalia = Qat addicted
Afghanistan = The world leader in heroin production

They are all tribalist, conservative muslims and have drug problems. Maybe the reason why other muslim religious states don't have as much internal conflicts is because they're not so dependent on drugs, economically and on personal levels?

[QatzelOk]

The United States: Coffee, cocaine, anti-depressants, alcohol, food addictions, shopping addictions, OIL ADDICTION...

All of these addictions do more to cause Muslim conflict than a thousand tons of Qat.

As does the Western appetite for foreign drugs.

And Millie, you used the word "tribalist." Can you explain what this word means?

[Zyx]

http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html

millie_(A)TCK needs sharper nails, she's been scratching the surface for ages and still hasn't managed to penetrate anywhere near the truth.

Yes, millie_(A)TCK, the CIA is documented as a drug trading organization that causes internal conflicts in different regions of the world, sometimes mocking the Opium-English strategy on the Chinese and other times funding capitalist parties against communist movements.

By your rate of intellectual advances, I just saved you ten years. You can thank me later.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Could someone relevant please post. Someone who understands that Qat has been used longer in the middle east than the US has existed.

[QatzelOk]

Still no word from Millie on what trendy thing she was trying to express with the word "tribalism."

I do wish she'd try to use a neutral vocabulary instead of revealing her colonial snobbery in every fashionable thread.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Still no word from Millie on what trendy thing she was trying to express with the word "tribalism."

Wait, do you actually think I'll legitimize any question YOU make with an answer? buzz away Qatz and leave the thread, I want a serious discussion about this. I am genuinely interested in the topic of drugs and conflict in the islamic world.

[Zyx]

I am genuinely interested in the topic of drugs and conflict in the islamic world.

We know that you are "genuinely interested" in placing the world's problems on the hands of the victims. We want to know why.

Methinks millie_(A)TCK is a "coffee shop world activist", someone who actively believes that talking over coffee will save the world.

She's right now just looking for her coffee mate.

When someone writes: "Yeah, those Muslims need to shape up," millie_(A)TCK will write, "Want to get some coffee?"

[FullMetalJacket]

Afghanistan = The world leader in heroin production

They are all tribalist, conservative muslims and have drug problems. Maybe the reason why other muslim religious states don't have as much internal conflicts is because they're not so dependent on drugs, economically and on personal levels?

The Taliban banned opium production in 2000. It was almost entirely eradicated. Then the U.S. invaded and it's even more prevalent than before.

[Brio]

Afghanistan = The world leader in heroin production

Just a small nitpick, but Afghanistan is the world leader in opium production. Most of the heroin refining process is done outside of Afghanistan.

They are all tribalist, conservative muslims and have drug problems.

Addiction is pretty much apart of every society and addicts are found in every portion of the population (i.e. rich/poor, conservative/liberal, religious/non-religious). What differs is what drugs are more socially acceptable (alcohol/pharmaceuticals in the west, Qat in Yemen/Somalia, cannabis in Jamaica etc.) in said society.

Maybe the reason why other muslim religious states don't have as much internal conflicts is because they're not so dependent on drugs

What do you mean by other Muslim religious states? Theocracies? Iran has the highest rate of opiate addicts in the world. Or do you predominately Muslim countries? Indonesia has a large addict population (along with a growing HIV epidemic), and accessibility to drugs like putauw (low-grade heroin) is as easy as going to the market. Could you give some examples of other "Muslim religious states" with lesser internal conflicts and drug problems, so I might better understand your assertion?

economically

Drug production, often gravitates to very unstable/corrupt countries, because these countries do not have the means or the will (some governments are complicit) to fight drug production.

For instance, Afghanistan during its civil war became the largest opium producer in the world. When the Taliban came to power and a bit of political stability was returned (albeit using brutal methods), they brought in a campaign to eradicate opium production. This campaign was very successful and production rates fell drastically. However, with the NATO invasion in 2001, the country again became unstable and production rates soared as the Taliban now have no qualms about opium as it supplies them with the money needed to fund themselves.

Similarly, cocaine production used to be much more evenly split between Peru, Bolivia, and Colombia. The 45 year old civil war between the Colombian government and FARC created ideal conditions for its production, and Columbia now has vastly outnumbered its neighbours in production.

[millie_(A)TCK]

The Taliban banned opium production in 2000. It was almost entirely eradicated. Then the U.S. invaded and it's even more prevalent than before.

Yes, they did that because opium was already a problem in the country. Opium production became worse after the American invasion but it was certainly not introduced by the Americans. I am just wondering to what degree opium fueled the conflict there. I guess its a bit of the chicken or the egg first question. Civil wars don't necessarily produce a narcotic trade (exception: Colombia, Vietnam) but narcotic production tends to create large internal conflicts (Mexico). The link between drugs and conflict in the middle east seems largely unexplored.

Just a small nitpick, but Afghanistan is the world leader in opium production. Most of the heroin refining process is done outside of Afghanistan.

Thanks for that correction.

Addiction is pretty much apart of every society and addicts are found in every portion of the population (i.e. rich/poor, conservative/liberal, religious/non-religious). What differs is what drugs are more socially acceptable (alcohol/pharmaceuticals in the west, Qat in Yemen/Somalia, cannabis in Jamaica etc.) in said society.

Thats true, but isn't the sort of drugs societies use indictive of the sort of problems they have?

What do you mean by other Muslim religious states? Theocracies? Iran has the highest rate of opiate addicts in the world. Or do you predominately Muslim countries? Indonesia has a large addict population (along with a growing HIV epidemic), and accessibility to drugs like putauw (low-grade heroin) is as easy as going to the market. Could you give some examples of other "Muslim religious states" with lesser internal conflicts and drug problems, so I might better understand your assertion?

I meant theocracies such as Saudia Arabia and Sudan which don't have drug problems.

[FullMetalJacket]

Yes, they did that because opium was already a problem in the country. Opium production became worse after the American invasion but it was certainly not introduced by the Americans. I am just wondering to what degree opium fueled the conflict there. I guess its a bit of the chicken or the egg first question. Civil wars don't necessarily produce a narcotic trade (exception: Colombia, Vietnam) but narcotic production tends to create large internal conflicts (Mexico). The link between drugs and conflict in the middle east seems largely unexplored.

Re-introduced is a better word. The Taliban would've banned opium production earlier had the Northern Alliance not rebelled in 1997, I think.

Very interesting topic.

[millie_(A)TCK]

Re-introduced is a better word.

Is there any proof that the US actively encouraged the farming of poppies in Afghanistan?

[Brio]

Thats true, but isn't the sort of drugs societies use indictive of the sort of problems they have?

Maybe.

What sort of problems do you think are indicated by a society that's drug of choice is Qat (a mild stimulant) versus a society who's drug of choice is alcohol (a depressant)? Would a society using Qat be indicative of a go-go society that needs the extra stimulation to keep up with such rushed existence? Or would it be the opposite and alcohol is needed in such a society to unwind after such a long work day?

I'm not sure what the answer is; or if there is even an answer, but would like to hear your input on it.

I meant theocracies such as Saudia Arabia and Sudan which don't have drug problems.

Sudan while not being a large exporter of drugs except for hashish which it is one of main producers of in Africa, is an important transit route for drugs because of its location between West Africa and the Middle East.

Marijuana is grown (often in inaccessible bush areas or amongst farmers crops) and consumed widely throughout the country. In the north of the country it is usually preferred to alcohol, since it is considered a vice in Muslim society, and it easier to hide use (stinks less). However, alcohol is still abused, but in private. In the predominately Christian south of the country, alcohol consumption is more accepted, and more alcohol is consumed, leading to more cases of alcoholism. Opiate use is fairly small and is pretty much relegated to the Red Sea province of the country. Amphetamines have been seized in ever increasing quantities and what is interesting is that the amount seized goes up during the Hajj season. This is probably due to vehicle drivers using them to give them more energy to work longer hours so as to earn the maximum, during the pilgrimage
season. Lastly, inhalants (glue, petrol) are widely abused by street children.

Sudan in no way does not have a drug problem, and due to the conservative nature of the country, many cases go unreported.

While not an exporter of drugs, Saudi Arabia has reportedly 140 000 drug users and 37 000 people are arrested for drug abuse each year. These figures were revealed by Saeed Al-Suraihi, head of the Study and Research Administration at the Anti-Narcotics National Committee and is reported in the Saudi Gazette. One of the most used drugs in the kingdom was the stimulant Captogen (thought to be smuggled in from the Balkans/Caucuses). It is estimated that 700, 000 captogen pills are consumed every day. Cannabis use is also prevalent, and heroin use is increasing especially in urban areas.

Similarly to Sudan, the official number of cases is most likely far more than are reported due to the conservative nature of the country. Furthermore, very harsh penalties (until recently even death sentences) given to arrested drug offenders deters many Saudis from admitting there drug use/abuse.

Where there are people, a good portion of them will want to alter their consciousness with substances, and of those people a percentage will become addicted. Thus, no country does not have a drug problem, merely much drug abuse goes unreported due to its illegality and social stigma, making it seem that some countries don't have such problems.

While researching for this post I came across some good articles/studies that I thought might educate and further foster debate...

Hashish cultivation in Darfur
Comparison of Substance Abuse in Saudi Arabia and the UAE
Drug Problem in the Arab Region - A good general overview of drug abuse in North Africa and the Middle East.
Study of Drug Abuse in Three Sudanese Prisons
Overview of the Drug Problem in Sudan - Admittedly a very old source, but one of the most comprehensive ones I could find on Sudan.

Also since the OP mentioned Qat use/abuse in Yemen this is a nice piece on it I saw a few months ago.

[youtube]5OtYQXhJ6sQ[/youtube]

[Order]

Yemen and Somalia = Qat addicted
Afghanistan = The world leader in heroin production

They are all tribalist, conservative muslims and have drug problems. Maybe the reason why other muslim religious states don't have as much internal conflicts is because they're not so dependent on drugs, economically and on personal levels?

While it is quite obvious what problems are created by the opium in Afghanistan, it is not equally clear whether the consequences of widespread Qat use are equally severe. Are there any statistics to back it up?

[FullMetalJacket]

Is there any proof that the US actively encouraged the farming of poppies in Afghanistan?

I don't know. However, the United States, especially the CIA, actively protects its drug-dealing allies.

Besides, the United States Armed Forces have alot of substance abusers. I'd bet that alot of the troops now going to Afghanistan will come back addicts. Half, if not more, of those in military prisons are drug users. Steroids, meth, marijuana, coke, etc.

[QatzelOk]

I'm still trying to get past Millie's "tribalist" label for the drug-addicted Muslim nations of the world.

I know of no one on PoFo - other than the Zionists - who is more proud of their tribe than Millie. She even has an important part of her username dedicated to defining her tribal loyalties (to herself and other rich snobs who traveled a lot).

So I guess she is trying to blame lower-class people for their drug addiction problems and their political problems. Which is fair enough, if you're from a wealthy neo-tribe and are trying to look for a reason to not have to work for a living ("I think the working classes do drugs and are tribal, and that's why they didn't get free money from their parents").

[millie_(A)TCK]

Maybe.

What sort of problems do you think are indicated by a society that's drug of choice is Qat (a mild stimulant) versus a society who's drug of choice is alcohol (a depressant)? Would a society using Qat be indicative of a go-go society that needs the extra stimulation to keep up with such rushed existence? Or would it be the opposite and alcohol is needed in such a society to unwind after such a long work day?

I'm not sure what the answer is; or if there is even an answer, but would like to hear your input on it.

My theory is that the defensiveness and quick to arms mentality in Somalia and Yemen is agitated by the wide-spread use of Qat. Somalia and Yemen are in the top five list of gun-ownership per capita and 80-90% of the men use Qat regularly.

I also find the use of depressants in the west is indictive of the break-down of communities and families, and the general paranoia/xenophobia the west has had of the rest of the world.

Where there are people, a good portion of them will want to alter their consciousness with substances, and of those people a percentage will become addicted. Thus, no country does not have a drug problem, merely much drug abuse goes unreported due to its illegality and social stigma, making it seem that some countries don't have such problems.

I'll post some more later, sorry, but I need coffee.

[Figlio di Moros]

I also find the use of depressants in the west is indictive of the break-down of communities and families, and the general paranoia/xenophobia the west has had of the rest of the world.

What do you mean? Typically, I hearthe type of drugs catolog our problems at a time, but since Alcohol is mainly a social drug, I don't think it can be considered as much as marijuana, E, coke, etc. on the mindset of users.

As far as the conflict-drug relationship, I think Brio already pointed out you may have hadthe relationship backwards; typically, drug production and use is higher in poorer areas, mainly because the community is more accepting of the cash and there's greater need for escapism(not to say wealthier people don't use them). Because these areas are poorer and lack a stable government to prevent them, drugs can be grown more easily and the communities are more willing to accept it.

I'll post some more later, sorry, but I need coffee. ;)

I know the feeling, I'm about to put a pot on myself.