[Muslimanka]

Whenever I travel in Western Europe and North America, I'm always amazed by the prevalence of obesity. I've seen people there far larger than any I've ever seen in my own country. I've also seen many people who are as large as the largest people I've seen in my own country, but there are far more of them in Western Europe and North America than there are here. I've also noticed there are many who, while not visibly obese, have significantly less muscular definition than many in my own country.

At first, I was simply shocked - people actually got mad at me because I was staring, but I just couldn't help it. Then I was disgusted. I couldn't look or I would feel my stomach rising in my throat. Then I became more accepting - I started looking at these people and trying to find something truly beautiful about their appearance and, a lot of the time, I was successful.

In conversations online, I noticed our perceptions were different. When I chatted with these people, they almost all considered me too thin. They considered themselves normal and I was too thin - especially those I chatted with in person because I never look as thin as I actually am in pictures. They were amazed to learn that, clinically, my height and weight place me at the limit of normal while their height and weight qualified them as morbidly obese. To be honest, I was a little surprised myself in some cases - especially when the women I was chatting with still had hourglass figures.

I recognize that, as Slavic models became more and more accepted, the concept of a normal body shrank and shrank - and now that Slavic models dominate the modeling industry, millions of women are starving themselves trying to keep up. My grandmother told me, during the Second World War, the German and Italian soldiers (especially the German ones) would taunt her and her friends for being so thin and call them little boys. So I think, perhaps, we're naturally smaller. In Western Europe, at clubs, I'm often much smaller than obviously thin girls the same height as me - they are skin and bones, and still thicker than I am even though I am soft and my muscles are not toned - I even have a little belly bump below my navel.

And I notice, when I go to other countries, the average size and shape of bodies is often different. In Albania, for example, I always feel very self-conscious. Most women have breasts and hips far more curvy than mine. They look better walking. Old women in my country are usually pretty bulky, but in Western Europe they're often the same size they were when they were younger. Why do these sorts of things happen?

So, a few questions for you...

- Do you think the average shape is genetically different among certain groups of people or is it always a question of lifestyle and people from any background can be the same size as people from any other background if they try?

- Do you think you can be thin and still be, in a sense, fat? Do you think you can be thick and still be very toned and healthy?

- Do you think this woman is beautiful?

[Cookie Monster]

Are you insecure over your body?
It is the greatest tool you have and the only thing you really own.
I think you should be happy with your body as long as it is healthy and should take good care for its health.
All the other concerns about the body are cosmetic and in essence irrelevant.

[Aekos]

- Do you think the average shape is genetically different among certain groups of people or is it always a question of lifestyle and people from any background can be the same size as people from any other background if they try?

It's all about lifestyle. Westerners are more likely to be fat because of their culture of consumerism and their unhealthy food. Being overweight is something that a person should not be okay with and should try to change. That means working out, eating healthier foods, etc. With the prevalence of obesity in the West (and specifically in the United States), obesity is almost becoming normal, where it's politically incorrect to criticize people for their eating habits. This needs to change...people need to learn that eating at McDonalds every day is not okay.

What really makes me angry is childhood obesity. Fat parents often raise fat children - I've seen countless families where every member weighs probably twice what they should. This is really fucked up. The parents should lose custody of their children for child abuse.

- Do you think you can be thin and still be, in a sense, fat? Do you think you can be thick and still be very toned and healthy?

Thick and toned are opposites, I'd think.

- Do you think this woman is beautiful

She's fat. No. Also, I just had to open that link in a library.

[Bella]

- Do you think the average shape is genetically different among certain groups of people or is it always a question of lifestyle and people from any background can be the same size as people from any other background if they try?

I think genetics do play a part but it's mostly about lifestyle. For instance, I will never be as petite and thin as certain Asian women no matter how hard I try, even to the point of being an anorexic. Bone structure plays a part. I think that the saying "big boned and not fat" does have a ring of truth to it.

- Do you think you can be thin and still be, in a sense, fat?

Definitely. It's called being skinny fat. People who are naturally skinny but whose BMIs are unusually low but have higher fatter percentages because they have more fat than muscle.

Do you think you can be thick and still be very toned and healthy?

Yes but it's all based on perception. I think our ideas of thick might differ. For example, I consider both Beyonce and JLo to be thick but toned and healthy. Although, I've heard many calling both of these ladies fat.

- Do you think this woman is beautiful: http://i47.tinypic.com/ogi1qp.jpg?

I think the woman in the picture is a BBW and she has a pretty face but she could stand to lose 40-50 pounds. Her body is not attractive.

Some additional comments on obesity. I think the reason so many Americans are overweight/obese is because of the food that we eat. We eat over processed foods with too many additives such as fructose corn syrup/sugar which in turn makes us hungrier and crave more sugar. We aren't satisfied. Also, the portion sizes in American restaurants are way larger compared to the portion sizes in many European countries. Americans also lead a sedentary lifestyle and drive more than walk. In France and Italy, people walk a lot more. People in cities usually are leaner because we walk more. I don't come across many obese or extremely overweight people in NYC.

In other news, the obesity rate in America is actually leveling off

[Muslimanka]

Cookie: Sometimes, yes - but overall, no. If I look at myself naked in the mirror, I can make myself crazy worrying about every imperfection - but when I take my time, choose my clothes wisely, and love what I am wearing, then I don't feel self-conscious about my body at all. Clothes cover most of the things I dislike about it. It also makes the one thing that makes me most self-conscious look good. I have a very short torso and very long legs - it looks bizarre naked, like I'm two halves of different women put together. But in clothes, it works. People who meet me after only seeing my pictures are always a little surprised because, obviously, pictures show my face. But in person I'm mostly hair and legs. lol



Bella: I understand what you mean.

I feel weird. I consider myself very intolerant of obesity, but I think that model in the picture I linked to in the first post is beautiful - just as she is. I can't even imagine that she would look normal if she was smaller.

[SlipperyPeople]

Why are you intolerant of obesity? I can see a few sensible reasons--medical costs borne by others might be a good one--but if it's purely aesthetic, or just being frustrated that other people aren't taking care of their bodies, it seems a bit irrational to me.

[Muslimanka]

I think it's just a cultural discomfort, Slippery. Think of how you feel when you see something that exists in another culture that you disagree with - nothing major, like genital mutilation or anything... but how about very strange facial piercings or something, anything. That's the feeling I get.

Of course, on a deeper level... it could just be I'm waiting for the inevitable. lol Our women do not usually age well. "You think she's pretty? Look at her fat, ugly mother - that's the face you'll end up with."

[Kapanda]

It's a fact that genetics plays a part in body composition. Some people are more predisposed to store fat. However, that only means that the amount and type of excercise that people have to do to maintain health varies by the individual.

I was quite confused at how someone bigger than you was skinnier than you though, that didn't make much sense in my mind... Maybe they had bigger skeletons...? But if that is you in the picture in your second post, then you are pretty skinny. Not malnutritioned skinny, but skinny non-the-less. You look healthy though.

As per the lady in the link... she is too fat. But she is pretty, and you can tell that she has very nice curves. She'd be banging if she lost some weight though. Not 40-50 though, that's too much. I'm going to guess that she weighs around 75 kg (around 165lbs), and she should get herself to about 65, so she should lose about 22lbs. That's to my taste though. Maybe the 40-mark would get here more to society's taste - ie supermodel-like.

[Cookie Monster]

Cookie: Sometimes, yes - but overall, no. If I look at myself naked in the mirror, I can make myself crazy worrying about every imperfection - but when I take my time, choose my clothes wisely, and love what I am wearing, then I don't feel self-conscious about my body at all. Clothes cover most of the things I dislike about it. It also makes the one thing that makes me most self-conscious look good. I have a very short torso and very long legs - it looks bizarre naked, like I'm two halves of different women put together. But in clothes, it works. People who meet me after only seeing my pictures are always a little surprised because, obviously, pictures show my face. But in person I'm mostly hair and legs. lol

You dont look unhealthy and you do look attractive. I dont see any disproportion between your torso and legs. Besides no need to worry about long legs, most men like it.

[Bella]

Not 40-50 though, that's too much. I'm going to guess that she weighs around 75 kg (around 165lbs), and she should get herself to about 65, so she should lose about 22lbs. That's to my taste though. Maybe the 40-mark would get here more to society's taste - ie supermodel-like.

My estimation is somewhere near the 200 lbs. range. No way she weighs 165. She looks tall too and if she weighed 165, she would carry that weight better.

Muslimanka, are you fishing for a compliment You have nice legs and you're long & lean How tall are you? You look kinda Greek btw.

[skinster]

The only time I get pissed off at fatties is when their fat finds itself leaning on me, lying on my seat or in my personal space.

I think the reason most people are massive in the US is due to crap food (fast food) being so popular, larger portions and just laziness - most people drive everywhere.

I don't think that woman in the pic is hot but have no doubt a lot of men would find her attractive. There's no way I'd be comfortable with that weight.

[Jackal]

Do you think the average shape is genetically different among certain groups of people or is it always a question of lifestyle and people from any background can be the same size as people from any other background if they try?

I think it is a mix of both. If you look at the Scandinavians they are generally taller, longer heads, tend to have a better muscle definition, and easier to build muscle mass. If you look at Southern Europeans, they are generally shorter and not genetically inclined to have a good natural muscle definition. I know a few blacks that have never pumped iron in their life and they have better muscle tones than some guys I know that hit the gym a few times every week. Same goes for curves on women and such.

Now, of course, obesity can be genetic but it also can be controlled by lifestyle choices. Both of your parents can be obese but if you keep a healthy lifestyle you will be healthy. On the other hand, you may not have a single drop of obesity in your blood, both of your parents being skin and bones and cross country runners all their lives, but with poor lifestyle choices you can easily be obese.

As for "people from any background can be the same size as people from any other background if they try?", I think it really depends. I think it would be very hard for you to get the curves of the woman in the picture you linked. It may be possible, however, though consistent over eating and then weight loss and targeting certain areas. The other option is plastic surgery but I think all cosmetic surgery is nasty anyways.

Do you think you can be thin and still be, in a sense, fat? Do you think you can be thick and still be very toned and healthy?

In regards to the first question, a mistake many thin people make is assuming that just because they are thin they are healthy. I have read articles and seen programs on television that have said that thin people that eat too much junk food but remain thin are endangering their health even though they think they are healthy. A man can weigh 150 lbs but if he eats only crap foods he will obtain a high cholesterol which can lead to heart disease and numerous other complications. In regards to the second question, yes. I see it all the time because I come from a Latin family and live in a city dominated by Latinos. Latin women generally have big butts, thick thighs, and nice sized breasts and can have a very toned stomach and a healthy body with those things. This may relate back to your background.

Do you think this woman is beautiful?

I assume you are only talking about her current state. In that case, no. She would be attractive if she lost some good weight, though. I find you far more attractive than she is in this picture.

[MistyTiger]

I consider myself mildly intolerant of fat people. I have always been fat, so I am understanding. I love my mom and at one time she was really fat. No matter what, I love her.

I get irritated if a fat butt is in front of my face.

People can be thin and still fat...loose skin on their belly or whatever. I have some friends like that. They just need to work out harder.

I feel mad at myself when I try clothes on or if I stare at my body in the mirror, but nowadays I am more accepting. I tell myself that I am exercising and eating healthy, and that eventually I will be more toned. If not for exercise all these years, I would be really flabby and always gaining weight. Now, I have a steady weight. It's not ideal, but it's okay. I don't have to worry about gaining like most fat people around me.

If I think about it, fat people motivate me to keep on exercising and not stopping. They represent what I could look like. I see some of my skinny schoolmates and after just 8 years, they have gotten so big. It's amazing. It's sad. If we were better friends and they lived nearby, we'd be workout buddies perhaps.

The woman in the picture has a nice face, but she could definitely afford to lose at least 20 pounds to start off. I don't believe in drastic weight loss in short periods of time. The heart cannot take that.