[SE23]

Is this truly a respected opinion, if race was purely a social construct, then why would the national health service be asking for members of the black and asian community to give blood and organ donors ? Biologically there must be a difference between races.
I can understand the concern that too much emphasis being placed on race could create problems, but surely what is the point in denying that race exists ?

[Wolfman]

Do me a favor: find a single genetic study that says that race exists. You will not find one. You may very well find some showing that ethnicity exists, and that you can of, sort of, average out ethnicities from roughly similar geographic regions and say that that is a race, but that does make it so.

[fuser]

but surely what is the point in denying that race exists ?

because it doesn't (any kid with preliminary Google skills can find that out.)And here's a better question what is the point in accepting something as unscientific as different biological human races?

[SE23]

Do me a favor: find a single genetic study that says that race exists. You will not find one. You may very well find some showing that ethnicity exists, and that you can of, sort of, average out ethnicities from roughly similar geographic regions and say that that is a race, but that does make it so.

What about the example i gave.
http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/ukt/cam ... /index.asp

Surely if it was purely a social construct, and black/asian people are simply white people but with a ever lasting tan, then it wouldn't matter whether the organ donor was black/white or yellow.

because it doesn't (any kid with preliminary Google skills can find that out.)And here's a better question what is the point in accepting something as unscientific as different biological human races?

But it is denied often, my university professor even stated that race was a "19th century social construct", the emphasis placed on race was indeed a social construct and helped justify colonialism, but to outright state that there isn't a biological difference between black or white people would be false.

[Wolfman]

Surely if it was purely a social construct, and black/asian people are simply white people but with a ever lasting tan, then it wouldn't matter whether the organ donor was black/white or yellow.

Organ transplants are much more likely to have successful outcomes if the donor and the recipient are closely related. Race does not exist, but genetic distance (for lack of a better term) does. An organ transplant is more likely to take if the donor and the recipient are both from Europe because there is less genetic distance between the two. But that does not mean that the white/European race exists.

to outright state that there isn't a biological difference between black or white people would be false.

That is true, but there is genetic difference between Nordic peoples and Italians, and Italians and Greeks, and so on.

[SE23]

That is true, but there is genetic difference between Nordic peoples and Italians, and Italians and Greeks, and so on.

Race being defined as
"Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics."
It would be safe to say that there are major divisions in the human species, with Africans sharing the distinct physical characteristic of being black, South Asians being brown and some verging on black, Europeans verging from tanned to pale white, different variations of white skin. These genetic differences are deeper than skin colour, at what point would you say that the race exists to saying it doesn't exist ?
This thread is purely questioning the idea that race is purely a social construct, which i have often heard being explained by people, for whatever reason i am baffled by, hence why i put this question forward.

[Wolfman]

It would be safe to say that there are major divisions in the human species, with Africans sharing the distinct physical characteristic of being black, South Asians being brown and some verging on black, Europeans verging from tanned to pale white, different variations of white skin. These genetic differences are deeper than skin colour, at what point would you say that the race exists to saying it doesn't exist ?

You seem to be assuming that all of this is true. You know there are huge differences in the skin tone of Africans and Europeans, right? Further, complexion is irrelevant, and the Human Genome Project has said that genetically, race does not exist. All you have are some variances in complexion; who the fuck cares?

This thread is purely questioning the idea that race is purely a social construct, which i have often heard being explained by people, for whatever reason i am baffled by, hence why i put this question forward.

Sometimes referred to as "Just asking questions". Or "JAQing". Or "JAQing off".

[Pants-of-dog]

Surely if it was purely a social construct, and black/asian people are simply white people but with a ever lasting tan, then it wouldn't matter whether the organ donor was black/white or yellow.

Ideally, everyone would know what genotype they are, and the medical industry would organise everything according to that, but since the vast majority of people do not know their genotype, the medical industry uses "race" instead. This is because people know what race they are, which is related to their genotype even if it is a social construct.

Most of the time, this results in less genetic difference, but not always. The reason it doesn't always work is because race is a social construct. For example, anyone looking at a Negrito would assume that they are "black" and therefore are more closely related to Africans than Europeans on a genetic level. The truth is the exact opposite: Negritos are the people who are genetically most distant from African genotypes.

[fuser]

there isn't a biological difference between black or white people would be false.

There is biological difference between me and my brother, no one can deny that. Do we belong to different races now?

[Paradigm]

Genetic variation in human populations is reality, but such variation does not break down very easily along the lines of what we consider to be race. A Spaniard and Japanese person, for example, are more genetically similar to each other than two Africans from neighboring tribes.

[SE23]

Sometimes referred to as "Just asking questions". Or "JAQing". Or "JAQing off".

Why is this such a sensitive matter for you ? to expand on my point, this is a reasonable question and thread, no need to be upset.

There is biological difference between me and my brother, no one can deny that. Do we belong to different races now?

Now lets not get silly, if you were to have an organ transplant you could easily get on from your brother.

Ideally, everyone would know what genotype they are, and the medical industry would organise everything according to that, but since the vast majority of people do not know their genotype, the medical industry uses "race" instead. This is because people know what race they are, which is related to their genotype even if it is a social construct.

Most of the time, this results in less genetic difference, but not always. The reason it doesn't always work is because race is a social construct. For example, anyone looking at a Negrito would assume that they are "black" and therefore are more closely related to Africans than Europeans on a genetic level. The truth is the exact opposite: Negritos are the people who are genetically most distant from African genotypes.

I understand would you say that the variations shouldn't be categorised then ? If race is purely a social construct, then why would it be such a sensitive issue and provoke frustration for certain people, the topic of racism as being a social ill, would be almost non existent if it was treated as such.

[Pants-of-dog]

I understand would you say that the variations shouldn't be categorised then ? If race is purely a social construct, then why would it be such a sensitive issue and provoke frustration for certain people, the topic of racism as being a social ill, would be almost non existent if it was treated as such.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

I am not saying variation should not be categorised. In fact, I said almost the exact opposite. I just think that variations in genotype should be ategorised.

It is a sensitive issue because people like to support their racist notions with pseudo-scientific evidence that supposedly ties certain traits to race. Thus, if you show that there is no scientific basis to race, then they are forced to admit that their scientific evidence is not really scientific.

Racism is a social problem, yes.

[fuser]

Now lets not get silly, if you were to have an organ transplant you could easily get on from your brother.

Of course its silly as it is using your logic of defining race i.e. simple biological differences that exists in every two individuals. Are you really saying me and my brother are biologically similar?

[Kman]

Technically no biological creature is identical to another (with the possible exception of identical twins) but that does not mean you cannot use gene groups like animal species, people who are not totally brain dead will realize that Chimps are different than human beings despite of us sharing a great deal of genes. You could say that ''oh but the variation from a human to a chimp is on a spectrum so we are really the same race'' and you would be correct since it is a subjective judgement, I dont think it is a subjective judgement that most people will agree with however.

Oh and the fact that many scientists dont want to come out openly and admit that race does exist is not proof that race does not exist, these scientists depend on money from the government or university and if they go up against the modern religious belief of ''we are all one race and now lets hold hands and sing Kumbaya because we are NOT like the nazi's'' then they will lose their funding in many cases, irrespective of whether it is a correct logical statement, so they dont, they instead use other words for race that means the exact same thing in order to escape the wrath of the religious fanatics.

[SE23]

Technically no biological creature is identical to another (with the possible exception of identical twins) but that does not mean you cannot use gene groups like animal species, people who are not totally brain dead will realize that Chimps are different than human beings despite of us sharing a great deal of genes. You could say that ''oh but the variation from a human to a chimp is on a spectrum so we are really the same race'' and you would be correct since it is a subjective judgement, I dont think it is a subjective judgement that most people will agree with however.

Oh and the fact that many scientists dont want to come out openly and admit that race does exist is not proof that race does not exist, these scientists depend on money from the government or university and if they go up against the modern religious belief of ''we are all one race and now lets hold hands and sing Kumbaya because we are NOT like the nazi's'' then they will lose their funding in many cases, irrespective of whether it is a correct logical statement, so they dont, they instead use other words for race that means the exact same thing in order to escape the wrath of the religious fanatics.

I see, scientists do operate in a paradigm, which explains why you see little controversial studies being pursued or new discoveries for that matter, of notable worth. Ever since the 70's, studies on genetics and policies implemented on these foundations have been halted. Even in the 1970's, the American government was still sterilising "undesirables".

[Wolfman]

Ever since the 70's, studies on genetics and policies implemented on these foundations have been halted

Ever heard of the Human Genome Project? One of the things they found: race doesn't exist on a genetic level.

[onemalehuman]

Ever heard of the Human Genome Project? One of the things they found: race doesn't exist on a genetic level.

there is the human race and the race to see which humans control humanity within educated societal evolution governing the thoughts of genetic continuation occupying the present moment one lifetime at a time.

But reality is about perception of character using characteristics as a categorical means to an end stage of casting social identities by race, creed, color, national origin, political affiliation, spiritual faiths, gender bias to which is more significant to society, sexual preference in recreational acts of reproduction not intended to create another generation, and the list is as big as issues and topics comparing theoretical methodology against theological ideology in governing what the general population believes educated to think no body can know the self evident means life lives presently being given character's rights by god, country, community, and family serving to keep humanity from understanding what being human has always been outside relative comparisons to fellowships of faith and hope being charitable from the top down ranks in social significance making symbolic value key topics of societal evolution front and center of consciousness in both first and third worlds living on this planet in the same moment.

Left and right wings to each ideology in flight. Birds of a feather schooled like fish to herd as cattled sheered like sheep each generation the human population arrives in male and female packaging of ancestral compounded total sums of specific DNA all the time history defines now as yesterday, today and tomorrow because the self containment measurements never leave the surface of the planet spinning by them.

Content and context aren't the same thing in reality using separate ways to define the same thing individually. So that does make race a social construct of psychological divide and conquer ancestors from their own ancestry.

In life one can choose their friends but blood runs deeper than water evaporates into thin air. Snowflakes and fingerprints are never duplicated how and why? it isn't a mystery if one understands time is a human concept not a natural balancing force of nature to expanding details from contracting self contained results presently here never able to create or destroy what now becomes by itself.

The tyranny of adapt or become extinct. That isn't under humanity's governances, and is required by natural balance among was and does continue individually as a species living now here on Earth.

See what understanding self evident reflects words do not reveal to everything in plain sight. It took generations for humanity to create such chaos in natural balance, how many generations do you think it would take to solve the problems facing being human?

[Freshmam]

In actual fact can one really view Race in the same way as we view a breed of dogs? Here there is strict genetic control by the breeders. I suggest if you look closely at any natural race you will find wide variations in characteristics, and a tendency to find an intermediate race between two groups. Of course geography has a bearing on this. I would suggest that the Sahara has given rise to the negroid group and the Taiga,Himalayas and the dense jungles of SE Asia have led to the differentiation between Caucasian and Mongoloid. However I believe another effect is at work here. I think that Humans and perhaps other mammals may have a bias when selecting a permanent mate to the 'Average in Appearance'. Thus in Africa for evolutionary reasons people are black and there may be a bias against too lighter skin ( ignoring the effects of colonial history. ) Similarty in NW Europe where again environmental forces have led to a white average skin there may be a bias in the opposite direction. I believe this is shown where an individual's features are too far removed from the average. It would explain for instance physical attacks on 'Ginger' haired people in NW europe and similar harassment of naturally occuring albinoes in Africa.

[onemalehuman]

In actual fact can one really view Race in the same way as we view a breed of dogs? .

Ever hear the advice "Read between the lines."? Read between the time lines. Think of everything changing within a constant position as now, or this instant between contracting results expanding details never duplicated twice universally in the present of one's resulting presence.

Second, "Never judge a book by it's cover." Skin. How they react tells all about one's characteristics to everything else acting around them functioning the same way all the time, present within an adapt or become extinct moment of contracting lifetimes expanding the time their species lives within the current situation always now and forever here as this sphere called Earth by it's inhabitants of the homo sapien species of male and female lifetimes every generation passing through this instant of constant universal balancing exactly as it happens now.

Just magnetism and electromagnetism creating inductive fields of objects repelling and attracted to each other's presence here now each generation of lifetimes changing ancestral significance to those here now exactly as conceived on a seemingly random basis.

Theology creates subjective titles of character. Politics gives the opportunity to achieve rank in directing society at large within each ideology. Economics gives a great psychological advantage over those that just accept faith and hope now isn't always here by supplying the means for defined values to simple vanish into thin air as if supernatural entities controlled everything now here.

Great theater, but it only works if the audience buys the bull shit policies of reality is greater than being real. Governance is the enemy of ancestry embezzling it's ancestors each generation theory and theology define who humanity remains currently.

See here is the power of choices in reality since one cannot choose their specific DNA but they can adopt a philosophy and character values. Perfect environment for corruption to thrive openly and nobody will comprehend how to balance it without destroying everything their own ideology believes in.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely." since every body does it every generationliving in the current present existence balancing what remains here now. "Simple compounding interest is the most powerful physical force in the universe." Economics and ancestry. What is the middle class between that? church and state ideological means to trade real for reality?

Global economics has vanished in value and every society blames each other, but whom is really at fault, every body being human or humanity that only exists in letters and numbers of symbolic codes of silence?

Race is a social construct, absolutely man made, not natural additions to keeping homo sapien lifetimes present all the time lines added together now never having ever left the moment here now.

Since all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again as characters honoring humanity's rule of law, this one male human decided to try by himself, and succeeded.

And everybody thinks it couldn't happen for real. You all are welcome. Have a great moment from here on out.

edit, Success is the best revenge when the corrupted can even see it's over and the silent majority repair their own lives without leadership educating the unknown and never existed realities covering up the real moment always present tense.

When everyone is created equally, there are no classes or first and third world orders, just one planet with each species living one lifetime at a time now.

Nudge, nudge, resisting reality is never futile. But expect to be on the receiving end of criminal charges to crimes against humanity starting with treason and blasphemy depending upon which ideology presses charges first as the other will soon follow.

[Wolfman]

In actual fact can one really view Race in the same way as we view a breed of dogs?

Racists like to pretend they can, but that is not accurate because race is more akin to a dog type, such as the Spitz type, which includes the following animals:
Akita (Japanese):

Pomeranian (Central Europe):

And the German Shepard (German):


Notice, they don't really look a like. That's because, like with race, the idea of a dog "type" is basically made up and is not grounded in genetics. Dog breeds are grounded in genetics, like with human ethnicities (for lack of a better term), but race and type are pretty much made up ideas.