Gender Neutral Pronouns to be Introduced in London Transport - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14747246
Gender Neutral Pronouns to be Introduced in London Transport wrote:Transport for London has revealed plans to introduce gender neutral announcements on its network of trains and buses after a transgender woman was mocked by staff.

The proposal comes after Aimee Challenor was told in November that she “didn’t sound like a Miss”, during a call to TfL’s Oyster helpline.

Representing the 19-year-old, Green Party GLA member Siân Berry challenged London Mayor Sadiq Khan to apologise for the incident and review TfL’s trans awareness policies.

In his response, Mr Khan apologised unreservedly for the “inappropriate remark” and pledged to do more to foster equality, including potentially removing “ladies and gentlemen” from announcements across London’s transport network.

He also said TfL would be investigating the incident to ensure it did not happen again.

However, Ms Challenor has called on the Mayor to do more to tackle ignorance and told The Independent of her shock at her identity being called into question based on “outdated stereotypes”.

“I just said but I am, I am Aimee Challenor, and they replied ‘but you don’t sound like a miss’. I was just in shock, I didn’t really know how to respond,” she told The Independent.

“I knew it wasn’t right. London is massively diverse and it’s something we should be incredibly proud of so I knew it had to be raised, if it affected me it could affect anyone.

“I wish that person hadn’t done that and I do blame them for it in a certain sense but it also shows the TfL culture, the training isn’t where it needs to be – trans has become public knowledge now.”

Mr Khan, in reply to Ms Berry, said: “TfL’s approach is centred on treating everyone equally, while understanding the specific needs of different customers.

“Under this approach it does not offer trans-specific training, but rather ensures that all staff put equality and fairness first.

“I have asked for a review of training and procedures to ensure that TfL is always providing a professional, respectful service that is inclusive and sensitive to the needs of all Londoners.”

Ms Berry welcomed the Mayor’s response, telling The Independent: “No one should feel shut out of society.”

She said the removal of “ladies and gentlemen” would be well-received by anyone who found the announcements out of date.

“There are many people out there with some degree of gender variance and, with our huge population, a large number of Londoners will be trans and non binary,” she told The Independent.

“Gender neutral announcements will make a difference not just to trans people but to everyone who thinks being greeted as ‘ladies and gentleman’ is out of date.”

In November, TfL’s LGBTQ staff network, OUTbound, flew a trans pride flag above its head office to mark National Trans Awareness Week, which the Mayor cited as one the ways it was working to raise awareness of the needs of the community, along with working closely with LGBTQ charities.

Nevertheless, Ms Challenor, who works as the Green Party’s equalities spokesperson, said there was more work to be done.

“His [Mr Khan's] response was better than we would have had this time last year but there’s still steps to be done. To say TfL works with charity groups, that’s a good sign but it doesn’t mean the work they are doing is necessarily focusing on the right areas,” she said.

In July, guidance issued by the Boarding Schools Association called on teachers to learn a “new language” and to address transgender pupils as “zie” to avoid offence.

It came after The Independent revealed a 170 per cent rise in transphobic hate crimes reported to the police over the past five years.
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#14747279
I don't think there could possibly be a more inclusive place then London :roll:

If we aren't careful, we will render our good intentions of 'inclusiveness', meaningless.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with difference, it builds character. The very quality a place like London is renown for.
#14747288
Pronouns exist to identify people as gendered foxes and cats. That's just stupid.

According to modern medicine transsexualism on its own is a mental illness-the process of becoming male or female to fit sense of self is seen as a cure. Therefore there are only males, females and chromosomal degenerates (true hermaphrodites/super males, super females, etc). I know there are legal designations for a third sex in places like Iran, parts of India etc, but those are still primitive cultures not yet developed where caste systems and tribal honor codes are still commonplace.

Only three categories of pronouns required. Pick one. If we're going to attach pronouns to designate a particular cognitive illness, or sexual fetish, then the plot has been lost.

They're trying to be more inclusive and I applaud them for it.


*divisive. This won't catch on because it is regressive. Pretty soon we'll be drinking water from different public taps if you allow such lunacy to continue, therefore general public won't stomach it for long.
#14747423
One idiot offends one person and the whole world must change.
I do not understand why anyone fails to see the absurdity of this.
Our quantum computers will fail to hold all the possible laws.
#14747429
English isn't a very heavily gendered language unlike say German or French. Most pronouns are already gender neutral.. I, you, we, they.. In english gender pops up for pronouns only in the third person singular:
He runs, she runs, it runs.
And of course for third person possessives: his, her, its.

My wife is Iranian and so I happen to know that Farsi has only gender neutral pronouns. Oo hast -> he/she/it is

So it isn't perhaps the end of the world if London TRANSport (lol) makes some minor adjustments to the English language. But I am not seeing why this person is crying about it? Why does it matter?

“I just said but I am, I am Aimee Challenor, and they replied ‘but you don’t sound like a miss’. I was just in shock, I didn’t really know how to respond,” she told The Independent.

:?:
Last edited by SolarCross on 09 Dec 2016 21:42, edited 1 time in total.
#14747461
It's not confusing at all, most people are capable of getting on a train regardless if the sign mentions gender.

"Oh no they did sent refer to me as a gentlemen, I have thus forgotten how to board!"

So what if it's silly, my local government puts giant tinsel candy canes up on the street lamps this time of year. I'd say that's sillier.
#14747501
mikema63 wrote:It's not confusing at all, most people are capable of getting on a train regardless if the sign mentions gender.

"Oh no they did sent refer to me as a gentlemen, I have thus forgotten how to board!"

So what if it's silly, my local government puts giant tinsel candy canes up on the street lamps this time of year. I'd say that's sillier.

Surely that also goes for people with DIY genders? Why can't they just say to themselves "okay the announcement addressed ladies and gentlemen and I consider myself to be neither of those yet I guess I could just pretend for a moment that I am either of them so that I am not distracted from comprehending the message so that I don't get on the wrong train"

Why can't they do that?
#14747507
The issue appears to have risen from a phone-call, the operator called her "sir", and she complained that she is not a he but a she and should be addressed as a "miss".

Operators in call centres, use "sir" & "miss" as a form of courtesy when they hear a manly voice, what are they expected to do? it's also happened to me over the phone a few months ago, but she did not hold it against me.

If we start calling all people "zie", sirs and misses will have an issue with that I believe, what happens when they complain?
#14747513
"Hello citizen state your business, the big brother is watching you now. Make sure to be gender nutral in your response."

Holly fuck can you just people leave others alone. What seemed to be just a rude quarrel was turned into identity politics about gender issues. This is insanity people, there is no reason for this. Penalize metro workers for inappropriate rude conduct and leave it at that. No, it had to be turned into this non-sense.
Last edited by Albert on 09 Dec 2016 22:29, edited 1 time in total.

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