[political]

Oxford University is encouraging students to use the gender-neutral pronoun 'ze' instead of 'she and 'he'.
The students' union wrote in a leaflet that the move was intended to reduce the risk of transgender students being offended.

Students hope that the use of ‘ze’ will continue into university lectures and seminars, reported The Sunday Times.
According to Oxford University's behaviour code, using the wrong pronoun to define a transgender person is an offence.

Peter Tatchell, an LGBT rights campaigner, told MailOnline: 'It is a positive thing to not always emphasise gender divisions and barriers. 'It is good to have gender-neutral pronouns for those who want them but it shouldn't be compulsory. 'This issue isn't about being politically correct or censoring anyone. It's about acknowledging the fact of changing gender identities and respecting people's right to not define themselves as male or female. 'Giving people the 'ze' option is a thoughtful, considerate move.'

Cambridge University made the indication that they also wanted to move in a similar direction.
Sophie Buck, welfare officer of the Students Union said: 'Events start with a speaker introducing themselves using a gender neutral pronoun. 'It's part of a drive to make the union intersectional.'
Franky Sissons, a transgender student at King's College at Cambridge said: 'Gender neutral pronouns are good...It should happen in lectures too.'

The Mail on Sunday recently reported on a a guidebook for teachers, parents and pupils to that had be sent to schools around Britain advising against using language that suggests there are only two genders.
It encouraged avoiding using the terms 'boys' and 'girls' in case of potentially offending transgender pupils.
According to Oxford University behaviour code, using the wrong pronoun to define a transgender person is an offence.
Jordan Peterson, a professor in Canada, uploaded a video on YouTube discussing his refusal to use gender neural pronouns. He said he was heckled and his office door was glued shut.
He said: 'UK universities should resist this. Whole disciplines have become irretrievable from these doctrines.'


Daily Mail

[One Degree]

Another example of why liberal ideology is being rejected due to its absurdity. The entire world is suppose to make changes because an extremely few people can not decide if they are male or female. Anyone who can not see the absurdity in this should really undergo therapy.

[Pants-of-dog]

@One Degree,

Other than using a weird pronoun in a very limited number of situations, there is no change you are supposed to make. How is this absurd?

[One Degree]

@One Degree,

Other than using a weird pronoun in a very limited number of situations, there is no change you are supposed to make. How is this absurd?

I call it absurd because it is asking society as a whole to adjust to a problem that does not really exist. It asks society to compensate for an individual who can not decide if they are male or female. How is that society's problem? It is the individuals problem.

[quetzalcoatl]

We do need protection from Ze Germans.

[Albert]

Crazy people doing crazy things, honestly anyone who is okay with this should get their head examined as well.

[Pants-of-dog]

I call it absurd because it is asking society as a whole to adjust to a problem that does not really exist. It asks society to compensate for an individual who can not decide if they are male or female. How is that society's problem? It is the individuals problem.

How is it a problem? When we say something is a problem, we mean that it causes harm or discomfort or distress. If a person does not identify with being a man or a woman, how is that a problem?

[Dr Cosmo]

Az a German,
I certainly approve ze idea….



I hope ze university can zerefore avoid any future misunderstandings in Britain…

[One Degree]

If a person does not identify with being a man or a woman, how is that a problem?

My point exactly as I pointed out earlier. It is not a problem for society, so why make it one.
I got an idea. Choose one. You can change each day and no one will even notice.
The only real question is are we offending someone who can not make up their mind.
There are probably a greater number of people who believe they were not born on earth. Should we quit using the term 'humans'? Figure out your own life and quit asking society to do it for you.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Oxford University’s student union has said it had not told students to use gender pronouns such as “ze” instead of “he” or “she”, calling such a move “totally counterproductive”.

A number of reports at the weekend said the student union had issued a leaflet telling students to use gender neutral pronouns such as “ze” in order to stop transgender students being offended.

A denial published on the OUSU website said: “As far as we’re aware, the information which has been published is incorrect. We have not produced a leaflet implying that all students must use ‘ze’ pronouns to refer to others, or indeed to themselves.”

The union’s policy has only ever been to encourage students to declare their chosen pronoun when they speak at meetings, it added.

The statement added: “We would also like to clearly state that we would never tell anyone to use ‘ze’ pronouns instead of ‘he’ or ‘she’ if ‘he’ or ‘she’ is the pronoun someone wishes to use. That would be misgendering and would likely have the biggest impact on individuals who may already be struggling to get people to use ‘he’ or ‘she’ for them. It would be totally counterproductive.”

The claims about gender-neutral pronouns first appeared in the Sunday Times but subsequently featured in other outlets including the Daily Mail, Huffington Post, the Times of India and Russia Today.

Oxford University’s newspaper, Cherwell, reported that the Sunday Times said the main source for the article was an OUSU policy document published in June 2016, which contains no mention of the word “ze”. It states that speakers in OUSU meetings should identify their preferred pronoun and their name.

The newspaper also cited a document [not seen by the Guardian] that appears to have been issued by an LGBT organisation and which the Sunday Times said had been handed out in fresher’s week. The Guardian could not confirm the source of the document, or its contents. The president of the university’s LGBTQ+ society said during fresher’s week the only handout it had produced was an introductory booklet to the society, which appears to make no mention of gender pronouns.

The OUSU said the story may have referred to support materials used by student leaders and welfare representatives, which reminds people of the importance of not assuming the pronouns of their peers. It added that there was a possibility that it had been confused with the wider university, “whose trans policy and guidance does include a mention of neopronouns (pronoun sets like ‘ze/hir’, ‘ey/em/eirs’)”.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... al-pronoun

So the story was really just clickbait for the more excitable Sunday Times/Mail readers.

[Pants-of-dog]

My point exactly as I pointed out earlier. It is not a problem for society, so why make it one.

So your previous claim about thus being "the individual's problem" is something you are not supporting. Okay.

Now, how is using a different pronoiun every now and then a problem?

I got an idea. Choose one. You can change each day and no one will even notice.
The only real question is are we offending someone who can not make up their mind.
There are probably a greater number of people who believe they were not born on earth. Should we quit using the term 'humans'? Figure out your own life and quit asking society to do it for you.

You seem to think that people who do not fit into a gender binary are trying to impose some sort of terrible burden on society. What is this burden?

-----------

@Prosthetic Conscience,

I am not surprised in the slightest.

[One Degree]

You seem to think that people who do not fit into a gender binary are trying to impose some sort of terrible burden on society. What is this burden?

I think when the liberal ideology decided the culture of a society should be determined by every possible minority in that society, they actually advocated for the destruction of a society based upon common culture. I believe that is called anarchy. The culture of a society must be determined by the majority in the society, otherwise no common culture exists. This is why I advocate local autonomy. Don't ask me to abandon my cultural views. Live in a society that shares yours. If you want to take a vote on using 'Ze', then great, but the liberals always avoid that route. I wonder why.

[Rich]

Changing the pronouns we use is hardly some great effort.

I would happily learn to use the whole German three gendered kaboodle just to wind up the leftists if gendered words so annoys them. but I do want to apologise to any Latina women I have referred to as Latinos, for my Anglo bigotry.

[Pants-of-dog]

I think when the liberal ideology decided the culture of a society should be determined by every possible minority in that society, they actually advocated for the destruction of a society based upon common culture. I believe that is called anarchy. The culture of a society must be determined by the majority in the society, otherwise no common culture exists. This is why I advocate local autonomy. Don't ask me to abandon my cultural views. Live in a society that shares yours. If you want to take a vote on using 'Ze', then great, but the liberals always avoid that route. I wonder why.

So, by asking people to use a pronoun, we are actually advocating for the destruction of society, anarchy, and simultaneously imposing our views on others?

This is absurd.

Also, please note that you have not actually mentioned any specific burden, except for the absurd destruction of culture thing.

[One Degree]

So, by asking people to use a pronoun, we are actually advocating for the destruction of society, anarchy, and simultaneously imposing our views on others?

This is absurd.

Also, please note that you have not actually mentioned any specific burden, except for the absurd destruction of culture thing.

Is not that what you just accused the alt-right of doing? You offer no counter arguments. You simply say my view is absurd. I also wish to clarify that I fully understand and support the original reasons for the rise of the current liberal platform, but in pursuit of an ideal you have progressed into a pathological dislike of all moral norms. Any local community that objects to any of your idealisms, is a target for your hatred. That is what I call a destruction of culture. There is no room in your world for allowing a single community to exist that does not agree with every single part of your idealism. How can you not see how wrong that is?

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

This story seemed fake, and then turned out to be fake as fuck. I think this topic should be deleted, to be honest. There's nothing good that can come of giving our intolerant members of the forum a place to practice their bigotry.

[Hong Wu]

My forum sense has drawn me to this thread

Did you know that Chinese has gender-neutral pronouns but they're still sexist? Isn't that supposed to be impossible?

[ThirdTerm]

The Equality and Diversity Unit suggests that departments and colleges remove all gender-specific titles from websites and print information, retaining only academic titles such as Dr, Prof. In the meantime individuals should be given the option of appearing without a title. An individual may also prefer a particular pronoun: this might be ‘he’, ‘she’ or ‘they’ (used to refer to a single person). In non-binary communities, Mx and Msc are gaining popularity, and some non- binary people prefer constructed pronouns such as ‘zie’ or ‘ey’. The student record currently allows the possibility of having no title but does not permit constructed titles such as Mx. e.g. Miss Jane Brown notifies the department that she is transitioning to become male and wishes to be known as Jan Brown and referred to as ‘he’ from an agreed date. e.g. The college is notified that Mr Simon Bates wishes to be known in future as Mx Si Bates, with the invented gender-neutral pronoun Zie. “Zie is not transitioning, but does not feel like a man or a woman. Zie is genderqueer.”
https://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/media/global ... ar2014.pdf

Oxford University Union, a student union, has not handed out a leaflet encouraging the use of the gender neutral pronoun. Right-wing news outlets misrepresented the new story as if the new guideline had been added to the Oxford University behaviour code. But the University's trans policy and guidance does include a mention of neopronouns, which may be used occasionally.

As far as we’re aware, the information which has been published is incorrect. We have not produced a leaflet implying that all students must use ‘ze’ pronouns to refer to others, or indeed to themselves. We believe the resources which are referred to within many of the articles could be support materials used by our student leaders and welfare representatives, which alongside other information and tips, reminds individuals of the importance of not assuming the pronouns of their peers while also aiming to normalise stating pronouns in introductions. Further to this, the assumptions made may in fact refer to a policy used with the Students’ Union Council, where it is asked (for accessibility and minuting purposes) that everyone who speaks states their name, college and pronouns. There is also a further possibility that our work and remit has been confused with the work of the wider University, whose Trans Policy and guidance does include a mention of neopronouns (pronoun sets like ‘ze/hir’, ‘ey/em/eirs’).
https://ousu.org/news/article/6013/OUSU ... -Pronouns/

[Pants-of-dog]

Is not that what you just accused the alt-right of doing? You offer no counter arguments. You simply say my view is absurd. I also wish to clarify that I fully understand and support the original reasons for the rise of the current liberal platform, but in pursuit of an ideal you have progressed into a pathological dislike of all moral norms. Any local community that objects to any of your idealisms, is a target for your hatred. That is what I call a destruction of culture. There is no room in your world for allowing a single community to exist that does not agree with every single part of your idealism. How can you not see how wrong that is?

I think that the absurdity of your claim (that being asked to use a pronoun is equivalent to the destruction of society) is self-evident.

The rest of your post seems to be about my alleged psychological failings. I hope you understand why I am not going to respond to that part.

[One Degree]

The rest of your post seems to be about my alleged psychological failings. I hope you understand why I am not going to respond to that part.

I apologize for my poor choice of pronouns. It was not meant as a personal attack. I seem to have trouble choosing the right pronouns in today's world. See that was not so hard. If a gender confused person asked me to refer to them as 'Ze', then I would comply out of common courtesy. I do not require official guidelines demanding it of me and a gender confused person should not need official guidelines to request it of me. It is a non problem.