Where do Western people fit into this whole nationalist movement all over the world? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14783102
Well I've just noticed that generally the world has the world becomes more integrated and 'globalist' I suppose but I've noticed this trend where generally there seems to be a trend of preserving your race and countries nationality and heritage; specifically amongst all of this global shifting of power and change. I've noticed that it's sort of always been like this with most countries, but where does this leave the West in particular doesn't fit into this as well? I've noticed that one trend in particular is that everything has become more monolithic and kind of homogeneous as well. The thing with the West is that it's always been kind of a melting pot and has never really struck entirely to only tradition, or even ideas of racial purity or whatever either. We've always sort of just went along and let our culture happen naturally, and now as I look back I have noticed that there's something that originated from there, a certain culture and sense of looking at things or aesthetic. I am getting this sense that in this on going trend of change and globalization it's not being quite accepted? I mean that's the thing, I'm mixed, almost everyone in the West is at least a Euro-mutt to some degree, but there's a lot of these other countries who are not like that at all. I mean I think of a lot of European and in particular Scandinavian countries who are like that specifically, and I guess maybe China. I think there's others but I cannot think of them at the moment. (they're so old fashioned to me, I find them really boring)

A big problem with real Western culture is that it cannot really be homogenized, bought or sold as much. I think they've tried to, but they've only really failed. Not to mention there's large groups in the country who are not trying to shame others who are like that, and as well say that it's "only for kids" but a lot of adults who are like that generally are perceived as being "hard" and tend to have lots of tattoos, ride motorcycles, that kind of stuff. It's a part of our culture as well to sort of be 'latchkey' kids and let them run wild and be their own person's. The music in particular, punk, metal and such has become sort of a right of passage to all of us. Music is a part of who I am and that is at least part of where I draw the line.

No offense to anyone but I would like for them to have an open mind, but I get a sense that with this new "nationalist" movement, since a little of these globally integrated countries are already acting themselves nationalist in a cultural sense, I wonder if the "nationalist" thing is just the opposite for more free-minded and individualist cultures such as ourselves? I get a sense that they simply want to do the same thing but in their own manner. For example I know that Japan is very similar and they've been wanting to do business with America specifically now that they've both become nationalist, same the Britain. It's nothing personal, we're just not compatible.
#14783110
It's actually just like this scene and reminds me of this movie in particular. Like at the end Captain America goes "I left home when I was 18, I've been all over the world since then. I never quite was able to fit in, and I guess that's why I've always believed in individuals" At the end Wanda chooses to leave with Captain America and Hawk eye. When they are escaping Wanda freezes Vision with her powers and he tells her "If you choose to do this, they'll always be afraid of you" and then she slams him through the concrete floor all the way to the parking lot. (he's a freaking robot; he doesn't understand human nature. Iron man is...a man who only has powers because of his technology.)


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#14783138
No offense to anyone but I would like for them to have an open mind, but I get a sense that with this new "nationalist" movement, since a little of these globally integrated countries are already acting themselves nationalist in a cultural sense, I wonder if the "nationalist" thing is just the opposite for more free-minded and individualist cultures such as ourselves? I get a sense that they simply want to do the same thing but in their own manner. For example I know that Japan is very similar and they've been wanting to do business with America specifically now that they've both become nationalist, same the Britain. It's nothing personal, we're just not compatible.


Japan's mainstream nationalism is about asserting its national identity and gaining political independence from America, which has been controlling Japan since the end of the previous war as a client state. Ukraine is in conflict with Russia because it actually gained independence from Russia and it's going to get ugly when Japanese nationalism gets out of control in the style of Ukrainian nationalists. Brexit was Britain's political independence from Brussels and both Britain and Japan are island nations and thus xenophobic by nature. Nationalism is a mixture of legitimate aspirations for self-government and xenophobia, regardless of where you came from.  
#14784700
I don't know, that still sounds largely close to the mainstream consensus and dogma that you are not supposed to question.

Look at the pictures I posted, it's very often at least from what you can gleam outside of the country that there are at least some positive feelings towards America. Japan and China have never really gotten along, and they themselves have publicly said to have gone nationalists because of problems with too much immigration. (which again, no one will admit to how extreme it truly is, or have an open and honest discussion about such things) whilst they are obviously not comfortable with Globalism. They even have deals with America in that if Japan was ever under attack or in danger then America would have to defend them. Britain wanted to break off from the European Union for similar reasons. All of these countries did. Japan has been doing business with America (like they always have) but are starting joint ventures together especially because of Trumps new administration, or whatever it's called.(his presidency)

And the thing with Russia and Ukraine is completely different then this whole nationalism versus globalism affair. Even as far as Canada goes, at least part of it is wanting to do the same thing. Quebec is nationalist as well and as always had a desire to go separatist from the rest of Canada for various different reasons like the above mentioned countries. I've actually been there and it's one of the most tolerant places in Canada, and it doesn't have problems with gentrification or anything either. Oddly enough, the mainstream Canadian media likes to bash Quebec all of the time and say how horrible it is, but real life is different then whatever the media likes to publish. Especially now. Have fun with globalism guys. It's a little too similar to be a coincidence and since "globalism" (literally globalism" is effecting the entire world, then I am sure that the nationalist trend is related as well to this very fact. It's ironic because you can be globally integrated and still not "Globalist" but I guess that if worker wages went up then we would all get less of a piece of the pie and we can't do that can we? and heaven forbid no one would want to pay taxes, so let's pretend like we're benevolent and liberal but then all the while slowly raise the prices of housing, rent, real estate and everything else but then do under the table deals with people we like only :excited:

But even though we're liberals, it's just that we're all oddly rich because we're business mogels and capitalist is the only way to go, like how everyone in America who voted for trump lives in the rust belt and smokes meth and is a horrid redneck. It's also fun to see how conservative/liberal alibi seemingly overlaps in such a way that you cannot really tell the difference between them whilst all dissent and diverging views or opinions seem to be missing from the mainstream radio :excited: but everything's so shiny and happy on the outset, nothing could ever be wrong :excited:

Spoiler: show
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqESwzCGg4[/video]
#14788489
ThirdTerm wrote:Japan's mainstream nationalism is about asserting its national identity and gaining political independence from America, which has been controlling Japan since the end of the previous war as a client state. Ukraine is in conflict with Russia because it actually gained independence from Russia and it's going to get ugly when Japanese nationalism gets out of control in the style of Ukrainian nationalists. Brexit was Britain's political independence from Brussels and both Britain and Japan are island nations and thus xenophobic by nature. Nationalism is a mixture of legitimate aspirations for self-government and xenophobia, regardless of where you came from.  



Concerning discussions of nationalism it is a bit moronic saying all of nationalism is horrible or the same. This whole notion that all forms of nationalism is racist is egregious and it seems proponents of this belief system particularly view that the only way to not be racist is to embrace globalism or internationalism. Of course nobody ever describes the dangers that globalism and internationalism sets as a form of precedent.

How exactly is it racist for Japanese wishing to maintain that Japan remain ethnically and culturally Japanese?
#14788493
Our aspirations for national self-determination are legitimate and not racist at all, while there were some ugly xenophobic incidents in post-Brexit Britain because nationalism always goes hand in hand with xenophobia. Subhas Chandra Bose was the leader of a nationalist Indian army and he fought alongside with the Japanese who promoted national self-determination of all Asians. Imperial Japan was instrumental in liberating Asiatic peoples from the European colonial yoke and it liberated the Dutch East Indies from Dutch colonists by supporting Indonesian nationalists. It's ironic that Japan helped other Asians become independent but it is now subject to American rule, being bound by the unequal treaty similar to the Warsaw Pact.

The occupation of Indonesia by Japan for three and a half years during World War II was a crucial factor in the subsequent revolution. The Netherlands had little ability to defend its colony against the Japanese army, and within only three months of their initial attacks, the Japanese had occupied the Dutch East Indies. In Java, and to a lesser extent in Sumatra (Indonesia's two dominant islands), the Japanese spread and encouraged nationalist sentiment. Although this was done more for Japanese political advantage than from altruistic support of Indonesian independence, this support created new Indonesian institutions (including local neighbourhood organisations) and elevated political leaders such as Sukarno. Just as significantly for the subsequent revolution, the Japanese destroyed and replaced much of the Dutch-created economic, administrative, and political infrastructure.[8] On 7 September 1944, with the war going badly for the Japanese, Prime Minister Koiso promised independence for Indonesia, but no date was set.[9] For supporters of Sukarno, this announcement was seen as vindication for his collaboration with the Japanese.[10]
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 22 Mar 2017 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
#14788500
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Today's monster is nationalism and supposedly the savior or hero is internationalism, or is it really?


(Separate note, why am I not allowed to thumb up people's posts anymore?)
#14841059
Nationalism, at least to the masses, is about protecting their way of life against 'others'. Technology reduces the needed population and resources needed to be self providing. We have distorted this into believing 'globalism' is the solution to nationalism. This is nonsense. Globalism must inevitably lead to global totalitarianism. Globalists insist this is the 'morally correct' path despite the people of the world saying they want more autonomy. The number of autonomous countries is increasing, not decreasing. People want global trade, not global morality. Globalists use trade to justify global morality. The two must be separate. Global trade is beneficial. Global morality is a nightmare.
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