Paddy14 wrote:My friends say I'm a bit left wing, and someone here said the same thing when I joined.
We learned about Communism, and socialist societies like The Soviet Union and Cuba in class, and they were total dictatorships - I'm not anything like that.
So what would make you call anyone (not just me,) left wing, and why would that make him a bad person?
I'm not being defensive or anything, I'm just curious about what people think and why they think it.
I will try to be fair about this, since everyone else is in the mood to troll (apparently).
If you are left-wing, then you should not take being called "left-wing" as an insult and sometimes people will dismiss you for being Leftist if they feel your input is going to be de facto tainted by that bias in certain contexts.
In regards to being a Leftist, definitions will differ among some, but being one of the most hard-right voices on PoFo, I will give you a synopsis of what I categorize as Left-Wing and why many believe its bad. This will be based on perceived views and not text-book definitions and the critiques will be given from various different elements of the right, such as traditionalists (that are also usually nationalists), the religious right, and libertarian types.
Common Characteristics of the Left That Are Despised By The Right.
I. Egalitarianism.1. The Perceived Definition.Egalitarianism, argues that people are not only inherently equal, but also, on the basis of this, should be equal in the outcomes of their life.
Different people on the left have different reasons for this, but one of the main reasons is because they believe that the wealthy necessarily gain their wealth through exploitation and that the amount of wealth generated by the industrial world would be sufficient to allow everyone to do exactly as they want in life without toil or separation.
They envision a world without class difference, where gender differences were only biological in the strictest and least limiting sense,and they envision as world where neither roles nor outcomes were in the least affected by any traditional human distinctions.
Many such folks believe that there will come a day where wage-labor will cease completely and money will be a thing of the past. There is disagreement as to how this may be accomplished someday, but most Leftists in the meantime believe that we should attempt to approximate such a goal as much as possible through government intervention.
Thus, the government should tax the rich more than the poor and give that money to the poor, through various programs, to relieve them. The government should also pass laws against hate speech, restrict businesses, impose regulations, and do what it can to eliminate economic differences between rich and poor, black and white, male and female, heterosexual and homosexual, cis gender and trans-gender, etc, etc.,
2. The Libertarian-Type CritiqueThe critique of this view by the Right depends on which branch of the right we are speaking of. Libertarian-types do not believe that everyone should end up with equal outcomes, but do believe all people are equal in their inherent worth.
Thus, they believe that everyone, equally, has certain legal rights only, such as the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Beyond this though, Libertarian types (also called classical liberals) tend to believe that people should only gain economically what they personally earn through work or entrepreneurship and thus tend to believe that a free-market is the best way for a person to fulfill his or her potential, and that they should be able to do so free from government picking the winners and the losers.
They see government intervention (which egalitarianism as stated above requires) as the greatest evil, for in getting involved in the market, the market tends to adjust in ways that makes it oppressive. For instance, if the government requires that everyone have auto insurance, then auto-insurance companies will almost always be able to charge a fairly high minimum rate as you have no choice but to buy it anyway.
Thus, many of the problems that leftists will say are an example of exploitative companies and corporations, intelligent libertarians will identify as originating in government intervention causing monopolies, price-hikes, etc.
Another typical critique by libertarian-types is that by increasing regulations and taxes, governments cause the price of goods to rise, employment to drop, and wages to stagnate (as companies will raise prices and lower costs in reaction to having to pay more taxes, etc), and thus libertarian-types tend to see big government as actually making people LESS equal in the end as far as their outcomes. These folks also tend to view working as a virtue, and thus see the desire to not have to work as being a vice of sorts. This is why being a leftist is bad to these types.
3. The Traditionalist-Type Critique.Another critique of Egalitarianism, comes from Traditionalists (true conservatives) who tend to view egalitarianism as contrary to human nature and custom of the oldest and most basic varieties.Traditionalists believe that people are not only unequal, but inequality is a good thing. They therefore believe that people pursuing roles in relation to their biological, social, and economic classification is virtuous and moral.
For example, many Traditionalists believe that men and women are different and that by each sex pursuing their roles based on these natural and historic distinctions such will invariably result in greater social cohesion and stronger families.
In this, when Leftist advocates of egalitarianism argue that women being housewives is inherently oppressive and that such distinctions are bad, even to the point of questioning traditional definitions of gender altogether, traditionalists will tend to view egalitarianism as a great evil.
For Traditionalists, communities organized by class, gender, and even race represents historic and natural hierarchies that are the highest moral good and to challenge this is to not only attack human nature at a fundamental level, but also to attack customs that have been passed down for a millennia, this can also include opposing leftists who are pro-immigration, as changing demographics will often threaten traditional communities and their cohesion. This is why these types view leftists as bad.
II. Secularism. 1. Perceived DefinitionSecularism is the view that government, as a social contract, is inherently "neutral" or "non-religious" in its scope. Now, many people on the right do not mind secularism, but some really hate it, which I will now explain.
2. Critique by the Religious Right (which includes many traditionalists as well).The religious right, will oppose secularism on two grounds:
First, it will argue that secularism is wrong because the validity of laws ought to be based on a transcendent authority. If they are not, then they are subject to the will of the ruler or the masses, the former leading to tyranny and the latter to mob-rule.
They will ask this: "If laws are an extension of morality, then if laws and therefore morality are determined by popular vote, then could child molestation be possibly moral if 55% of the population voted for it to be so?"Or are certain things just wrong because nature or God said so?"
Thus, for these types, leftists are bad because they are secular, and secularism leads to a moral relativism that can easily be used to justify tyrannical mob-rule or dictatorships.
Second, many will oppose secularism because they see it as a religion itself. If the
de facto position of the government is atheism or syncreticism, those are ideological views that contrast to religions that believe in one absolute truth. Thus, secularism is not really a morally neutral position as there is no such thing as a morally neutral position. Thus, many on the religious right see any form of secularism as inherently anti-Christian because its not explicitly Christian, you are either for us or against us. Many Muslims, especially those who believe in Sharia law, feel the same way.
III. Totalitarianism.1. Perceived DefinitionA common thread of leftists is that government should not only regulate the economy, but also private life (totalitarianism). Now, many leftists believe in various social freedoms, but they are usually always of an anti-traditionalist bent only (which is why even if something increases freedom, not all people on the right are necessarily going to be happy about it), and even on those areas, the "freedoms" are rarely true rights, but seen as privileges to be bestowed and regulated by the State to ensure equitable outcomes.
1. The Libertarian-Traditionalist Unified CritiqueMany people on the right oppose the micromanaging of their lives, but will often not mind some ideas of the left. For instance, libertarians do oppose leftists on the economy, but have also argued quite strongly that any and all drug-use should be legal, homosexuality should be legal, and abortion should be legal because people should be FREE to do as they wish (these are anti-traditionalist freedoms that the Left will often support).
However, Libertarians will also often support the right for parents to spank their kids, home school their children, opt out of mandatory vaccines, and own guns (all of which Traditionalists would support). Thus, while libertarians and Leftists will often agree on some freedoms against Traditionalists (drugs, sodomy, abortion), Traditionalists and Libertarians will often support each other against Leftist totalitarianism on other matters (guns, homeschooling, etc.,).
IV. SummaryThus, people on the Right of the libertarian bent think Leftism is bad because it interferes with economic freedom and thus end up violating human rights. Also these libertarians believe that Leftist economic policies end up increasing poverty (by causing prices to rise, wages to stagnate, and employment to drop) and decreasing productivity which they view as the highest human virtue.
People on the Right of a traditionalist-bent think Leftism is bad because it assaults human nature, custom, faith, and family at the most fundamental of levels. They believe that natural differences in people represents the key to their happiness by pursuing specific roles. They see the Left as a threat to their families, communities, faith, and even their existence. Traditionalists see the Left as the embodiment of evil.
Despite their differences, Traditionalists and Libertarians end up coalescing against the Left in their desire to maintain liberty, or the ability of people to go their own way and opt out of the system. So though a Libertarian may be an atheist woman who works a career, smokes pot, and gets frequent abortions to solve the consequences caused by her bi-sexual weekend orgies, she will often side the ultra-religious housewife that homeschools her fifteen children against Leftists because both, if not being able to control the government, at least want it out of their business. They want to be left alone. The more they feel threatened, the more radical and reactionary they become overtime.
V. Things That People On The Right Perceive Among Leftists Themselves That Makes Them Dislike Leftists.1. Existentially,
a lot of people on the right view Leftists as hypocrites. They see them as people that advocate for the "working man" or the "little guy," when most American working class folks are very traditionalist and very much opposed to any perceived assault against their freedom to be left alone, their traditional family structure, or their religious customs. Despite their railing against the rich, people on the right see a lot of self-avowed leftists being professors with big salaries or corporate CEOs, or bankers who claim to represent people that they have no commonality with.
2. Likewise,
people on the right view the left as deceitful. The right will often concede liberties they would not have done ordinarily (desegregating the south for instance), only to be continuously punished through the propagation of shaming whites for the sins of the past that they feel they have rectified as they also being the ones that have to live in communities torn by racial strife that leftists, in their gated communities, rarely have to experience. The right is increasingly bitter against Leftists, for Leftist tend to be far less compromising and are perceived as fork-tongued:
Here is a comic example of what I mean:
1960s America:The Left: "We believe people should be free to publicly criticize the Christian religion, capitalism, and white hegemony!"
The Right: "Sure, we'll concede that, we are for freedom after all."
The Current Year:The Right: We believe people should be free to publicly criticize the Islamic religion, communism, and issues in the black community!
The Left: "Nope, that is hate speech, you should go to jail for that."
The Right: "What the Fuck? You lying duplicitous bastards!"
3. Lastly, there are some on the Right that believe the Left is under the control of some sort of all-power globalist elite that intend to wipe out traditionalism, a particular race, or a particular religion. Some of the Alt. Right believe this group is Jewish and is acting to punish and control gentiles for monetary domination, and to even wipe them out. Others believe that some sort of Satanic cult is in charge and is out to wipe out Christianity. Both of these views will often justify their inordinate hatred of the Left and Leftists.
- By wat0n
- By litwin