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#14996597
The phenomenon of "Herbivore Males" (unattached, unemployed, isolated), earlier noted in Japan, has made its way to the States. The number of males under 30 reporting having no sex in the past year has tripled over the past decade:

Image

Possible factors may include the decline in labor force participation of young males, as well as a decline in wages/prestige of jobs they do hold. Other factors may include later age of marriage/permanent single status.

The gender discrepancy is notable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 7740453974
#14996612
It's hard to have sex when you are playing video games 16 hours a day. :lol:
#14997309
It's usually called by some un-prononciable Japanese terms in Japan. Otaku is the easier one but also suggests a love (sometimes too strong of a love) for anime related stuff. There's at least one or two other variations.

In Chinese it's called 宅男 or zhái nán, lit. "house man." It also means otaku but more simply, it refers to a guy who never leaves his house.

I think the reasons are pretty obvious:
(1) greater access to porn. Japanese arguably had widespread access to porn before the internet was even made as there was a porn boom in Japan during the financial bubble. Funny story, I was once in a capsule hotel in Japan and it had a blue button. It was kind of hot so I hoped that the button meant AC and I pushed it, the tiny TV in the capsule turned on and started showing me some porn. The social dynamics in Japan are quite weird, the liberals and conservatives are basically content to let each other live in different dimensions, something that I have wondered if it wouldn't be good for western people to do as well but it's just not really in our nature to do that. This is also why it's funny when someone goes to Japan and encounters no porn or other weirdness and decides that the whole country is super conservative all the time, another person goes to Japan and finds a ninja blowjob bar or something and decides that the country is full of perverts... westerners don't seem to be able of conceiving just how separate from each other these kinds of people can be in Japan. I'm kind of rambling by now but being part Japanese, I find it weirdly tolerable compared to the US, like two chicks will be making out next to me while I'm sitting there in my suit trying to eat a 7/11 rice square in my business suit or something and I'll look over at them and just be like "mmm, this rice is really good today," then wrap it up and leave.

The reason this is relevant btw is because Japan had the issue before other places developed it but it's clear at this point that it's an international problem.

(2) earlier access to video games. Not only did Nintendo and Sega release more titles in the early days in Japan than in the US, there were also entire consoles that were released there exclusively. Video gaming is a big part of the "shut-in" personality.

(3) Since this is focused more on sex and I've just assumed an association (because it's there) we might as well also blame Tinder and the dating apocalypse. It's traumatic, alienating, many of the people who get a Tinder fuck regret it later and yet it still skews the dating system. If we can even call it a system anymore. Sad!
#14997336
Hong Wu wrote: blame Tinder



How in the fuck are you gonna blame Tinder? Tinder is ass on tap, if people aren't getting laid in the age of Tinder then they're just not trying.
#14997366
ness31 wrote:^^^funny cos it’s true :lol:

So, these herbivore males, are they like incels?

I expect some (probably most) are, others maybe are volcel in that they could get laid but they prefer hermitage. Back when religion was a thing no one in Christian europe nor in the Buddhist parts of the east would bat an eyelid at herbivore males, they would just call them monks.
#14997376
Agreed. This is really such a non-issue, it's not even funny. So some people aren't having sex. That's OK. The rest of us will pick up the slack. ;)
#14997406
Sivad wrote:How in the fuck are you gonna blame Tinder? Tinder is ass on tap, if people aren't getting laid in the age of Tinder then they're just not trying.

It's because Tinder is like "ass on tap" for a tiny minority of men. If you aren't in the top 20% or so, Tinder actually reduces your odds of getting laid because all the chicks are getting monopolized by people higher up in the spectrum.

There's also the alienation factor; plenty of people (women as well as men) are disgusted by the Tinder scene and so they deliberately shut themselves out of it, which means shutting themselves out of much of "dating".

When I've been in more conservative countries, I've had guys say that it's much easier for a white guy to get a woman in country X. IMHO that is not actually true. It's just that in the west, if you see a guy who is a 5, he will not have a girlfriend. In countries that have not suffered the dating apocalypse, a guy who is a 5 will be dating a woman who is a 5. But if you come from the Tinder-sphere you will not realize this when you get there and will think that dating is better in country X when in reality it's just more normal...
#14997408
Hong Wu wrote:It's because Tinder is like "ass on tap" for a tiny minority of men. If you aren't in the top 20% or so, Tinder actually reduces your odds of getting laid because all the chicks are getting monopolized by people higher up in the spectrum.
It sounds like a lot of whining because even on a platform like this, they're still losers. :lol:

Hong Wu wrote:There's also the alienation factor; plenty of people (women as well as men) are disgusted by the Tinder scene and so they deliberately shut themselves out of it, which means shutting themselves out of much of "dating".
:roll: So then meet them in the real world, like everyone else does.

Hong Wu wrote:When I've been in more conservative countries, I've had guys say that it's much easier for a white guy to get a woman in country X.
It's more easy for a GUY to get a woman, if he has some confidence, social skills, and some semblance of a personality. Perception is not always reality.

Hong Wu wrote:It's just that in the west, if you see a guy who is a 5, he will not have a girlfriend.
I have seen some "5" guys in the West, with some "9" girlfriends. They don't see their appearance playing such a large factor, and as a result, it doesn't.

Hong Wu wrote: In countries that have not suffered the dating apocalypse, a guy who is a 5 will be dating a woman who is a 5.
Only because they wish to. What about the guy who is 5 dating the girl who is 9? How does that work?

Many wealthy men date women far more attractive than they are, because appearance is not the only yardstick by which people are measured. Personality, confidence, money, sense of humour, charisma, etc. are all things that attract people.

This is simply another example of people who suck at socializing and dating, complaining about it. :*(
#14997410
Godstud wrote:It sounds like a lot of whining because even on a platform like this, they're still losers. :lol:

:roll: So then meet them in the real world, like everyone else does.

It's more easy for a GUY to get a woman, if he has some confidence, social skills, and some semblance of a personality. Perception is not always reality.

I have seen some "5" guys in the West, with some "9" girlfriends. They don't see their appearance playing such a large factor, and as a result, it doesn't.

Only because they wish to. What about the guy who is 5 dating the girl who is 9? How does that work?

Many wealthy men date women far more attractive than they are, because appearance is not the only yardstick by which people are measured. Personality, confidence, money, sense of humour, charisma, etc. are all things that attract people.

This is simply another example of people who suck at socializing and dating, complaining about it. :*(

The differences between now and past periods in terms of things like dating and relationships are well documented. You are just pretending to be an "alpha" on the forum by downplaying it and in failing, are showing how out of touch you are. Not for the first time...
#14997413
:lol: @Hong Wu The same problems exist now, as they did in every generation before. Communication is just easier. The rest of it hasn't changed enough to justify this sort of outrage at nothing.

You suggesting I am an "alpha" simply because I know that not everything is tied to appearance, is hilarious. I'm just a bit wiser after having a few relationships, where I learned from failures and successes.... like most other people.

These people having problems are having problems of their own making. It is just easier for like-minded people to find each other and complain about things, now.

It sounds as though you have some personal stake in this. Why? Some men, and women, have always had tough times finding and starting relationships. They are just simply more identifiable now, and are able to all air their grievances more publicly, than before.

30 years ago, I was having the relationship problems like these people. I didn't get my first girlfriend until I was 20. It's a sign of youth. I grew up, however, and learned enough over the years to where I'd say I am confident in my ability to get in a relationship, with a woman, with relative ease. That doesn't make me an "alpha" or ladies' man. It's just what experience teaches you.

Many young people need to learn about relationships before they can get into good ones. That's life.
#14997416
Sivad wrote:How in the fuck are you gonna blame Tinder? Tinder is ass on tap, if people aren't getting laid in the age of Tinder then they're just not trying.


I recall reading some stats regarding those online dating sites. Simply put, in terms of straight pairings, ~15% of men on such sites get 90% of the women. The rest get the 10% sloppy leftovers, were talking women not much better looking than Orangutans, for 85% of the remainder.

Now to add insult to injury, 80% of the users of such sites...are men. :lol:

Let's say a dating site has 1,000 users. 800 men, 200 women. 120 of those 800 men, will get 180 of the women. That leaves 680 men, bickering over 20 women, all of them ugly as fuck. Eventually, among those 680 men waiting in line for the sloppiest of seconds, many will simply give up and write off the entire thing. Suddenly you get a jump in incels and men going their own way and all that edgy crap they have going on nowadays.

I blame the internet. It has led to less socializing. Young people now rely on it for dating, and the dating scene online is so heavily slanted as exampled above, that it has become a major turn off. most damaging of all, it has made ugly or average looking girls super entitled, and heightened their expectations. A 5-6 woman now expects an 9-10 man.
#14997417
I was gone for like an hour or two and this thread exploded into so many issues that I don’t even know where to start :eek:

Hong Wu wrote:It's because Tinder is like "ass on tap" for a tiny minority of men. If you aren't in the top 20% or so, Tinder actually reduces your odds of getting laid because all the chicks are getting monopolized by people higher up in the spectrum.

There's also the alienation factor; plenty of people (women as well as men) are disgusted by the Tinder scene and so they deliberately shut themselves out of it, which means shutting themselves out of much of "dating".

When I've been in more conservative countries, I've had guys say that it's much easier for a white guy to get a woman in country X. IMHO that is not actually true. It's just that in the west, if you see a guy who is a 5, he will not have a girlfriend. In countries that have not suffered the dating apocalypse, a guy who is a 5 will be dating a woman who is a 5. But if you come from the Tinder-sphere you will not realize this when you get there and will think that dating is better in country X when in reality it's just more normal...


This is really interesting and I suspect you are touching on something really important. Phrases like “the dating apocalypse” is heartbreaking.

I think the net has revolutionized communication but not necessarily for the better in the world of romance. I honestly wish fledgling lovers would use the telephone more when they’ve just met. They just aren’t emotionally or grammatically equipped to text in those early days. True Story.
#14997424
Igor Antunov wrote:I blame the internet. It has led to less socializing. Young people now rely on it for dating, and the dating scene online is so heavily slanted as exampled above, that it has become a major turn off.


While I have never used Tinder, it seems to be about casual sex primarily, and men always had a higher demand for that.

I went clubbing a lot in my early 20s but it was quite rare for someone of us to get laid in the process. Of course it wasn't only about that.
#14997431
I don't know what Tinder is really but the problem of 10% of guys getting 90% of women is as old mankind itself. Tinder or whatever is just facilitating the natural order of things for mankind. The problem comes from a slacking in the enforcement of monogamous legal conventions.

Monogamous legal conventions are:
1. No sex before marriage
2. Only one female per male in marriage
3. No adultery
4. No divorce

Western society has slacked off on all but the second point however the second can do nothing by itself because of all the others are not supporting it.
#14997433
SolarCross wrote:I don't know what Tinder is really but the problem of 10% of guys getting 90% of women is as old mankind itself. Tinder or whatever is just facilitating the natural order of things for mankind. The problem comes from a slacking in the enforcement of monogamous legal conventions.

Monogamous legal conventions are:
1. No sex before marriage
2. Only one female per male in marriage
3. No adultery
4. No divorce

Western society has slacked off on all but the second point however the second can do nothing by itself because of all the others are not supporting it.


:eh:

Was that just a long winded way of saying “why buy the cow when milk is free?” lol
#14997435
ness31 wrote::eh:

Was that just a long winded way of saying “why buy the cow when milk is free?” lol

Not really, because you can buy more cows like the muslims or the mormons, or you can buy a cow and then have some free milk on the side as with adulterers. Or you can just trade in your old cow for a new one every few years as with the easy divorces. There are a lot of ways of doing polygamy but either way the end result is a herd of beta males who don't get any.

I am not necessarily endorsing a return of strict monogamy but if you identify polygamy as a problem and want to know what to do about it then that solution has already been found and we used to do it. It is because we stopped doing it, enforcing monogamy, that polygamy came back.
Last edited by SolarCross on 04 Apr 2019 15:39, edited 1 time in total.
#14997436
Yeah, I’m not sure this is a multiple partner(s) issue. I genuinely think people just aren’t great with intimate relationships...especially getting into them and being psychologically stable enough to pull it off :hmm:

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