[Agent Steel]

For my entire life, I have definitely gotten the sense that there has been a war against traditional masculinity. Now, I don't share too much in common with the evangelical right, but I think I can agree with them on this point.

You see, the so called "toxic" masculinity that causes harm to others is the same masculinity that is useful to stop that kind of harm. There are enemies in this world. They ought to feel the wrath of righteous anger. Remember, even God got angry in the bible and used his anger to vanquish evildoers.

I believe God gave men the ability to process anger in a useful way. I think it is expressed in testosterone, the male hormone, which is the source of aggression in men. Because of the hormonal differences between the sexes there's a lot of misunderstanding about the nature of anger. All this gender fluidity today only confuses things further, and as a result men have lost touch with their natural, masculine energy.

Another thing I have noticed is that modern-day feminists are all for advocating that men should be more open about their feelings until a man expresses an emotion that is too rough for them, then they will deem it “toxic”. When they say men should express their emotions more, they apparently limit the range of emotions he’s allowed to express to things like sadness and despair. What about anger and fury? Are these not legitimate emotions? It seems they only want men to express the soft, sensitive feelings that women do. They don’t want men to unleash their primitive, animalistic side.

The people who put forth this notion of "toxic masculinity" rather remind me of the same folks who preach about the great evils of the "white race" whilst simultaneously denying that the very notion of "race" is invalid and should not be used. In order for there to be such a thing as toxic masculinity to speak about in the first place, you are already acknowledging the existence of masculinity as a real concept with a significant application. Once you do that you cannot logically tell me that masculinity is a meaningless concept with no clear definition.

Either masculinity has a clear definition that is toxic, or it has no clear definition at all in which case the notion of "toxic masculinity" subsequently is also nullified. You can't have it both ways.

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this? Let's try to have a productive dialogue.

[Rich]

For my entire life, I have definitely gotten the sense that there has been a war against traditional masculinity..

Yes I can see how you might think that, but you would be wrong. There is a war against European men's masculinity. Librals love masculinity as long it come from groups that are considered oppressed.

And if you watch Hollywood you might notice that tradition masculine virtues of strength, bravery and dominance are continually venerated even if its in the form of women actors. Oh yes the Libral media loves over bearing dominate, patronising leaders who continually unnecessarily humiliate their subordinates, as long as they're women.

[late]

Goofy language aside, the OP is not wrong.

You know how politics swings back and forth like a pendulum. Culture can be like that.

Once women got assimilated, they have been protective of their status. One might say they went a bit further than is ideal. Over time, that will prob correct itself. A feminist with a male child will often gain a different perspective...

[Rich]

You can't understand the left or society in general without understanding the Cultural Marxist hierarchy.

1 Muslims
2 People of Black African heritage
3 Other non European races
4 All the other "oppressed identities"
5 Women

What this means is that for example if a male rapist decides he wants to identify as a woman he can go to women's prison and carry on assaulting women. Or take the election of Giorgia Meloni as Italy's Prime Minister. This is absolutely massive. An absolutely massive step forward for women. That Italy should have its first ever women leader in the city of Rome no less. The Roman Empire never had an empress. This the capital of the Catholic Church this cess pit of misogyny now has a female leader, but don't expect any progressives to be celebrating this, because she is seen as reactionary to all the other much more important groups and women come last.

Or just think about 1939. People care deeply about the treatment of Jews and Slavs in Nazi controlled territory. There was some concern at the time about the treatment of Ethiopians by Mussolini's Italians or the treatment of the Chinese by the Japanese. many people still think it was a disgrace that Black African Americans were effectively disenfranchised in much of the American southern States in 1939. But who cares about the fact that women couldn't vote in France in 1939. Who cares that women couldn't vote in Switzerland in 1939.

[Tainari88]

You can't understand the left or society in general without understanding the Cultural Marxist hierarchy.

1 Muslims
2 People of Black African heritage
3 Other non European races
4 All the other "oppressed identities"
5 Women

What this means is that for example if a male rapist decides he wants to identify as a woman he can go to women's prison and carry on assaulting women. Or take the election of Giorgia Meloni as Italy's Prime Minister. This is absolutely massive. An absolutely massive step forward for women. That Italy should have its first ever women leader in the city of Rome no less. The Roman Empire never had an empress. This the capital of the Catholic Church this cess pit of misogyny now has a female leader, but don't expect any progressives to be celebrating this, because she is seen as reactionary to all the other much more important groups and women come last.

Or just think about 1939. People care deeply about the treatment of Jews and Slavs in Nazi controlled territory. There was some concern at the time about the treatment of Ethiopians by Mussolini's Italians or the treatment of the Chinese by the Japanese. many people still think it was a disgrace that Black African Americans were effectively disenfranchised in much of the American southern States in 1939. But who cares about the fact that women couldn't vote in France in 1939. Who cares that women couldn't vote in Switzerland in 1939.

I protest this list you have done my dear @Rich ? I don't usually agree with conservative white men comedians who are questionable characters. But this Bill Burr guy got it right. That entire narrative was supposed to be about POC or People of Color. But who hijacked it Rich? He thinks it is White Women. Mostly white women who voted both Republican and Democrat. Lol.

Here he is:

It is hard being a White Woman.

[Rancid]

Go take a look at Russia if you want to see where a culture of "hyper masculinity" gets you.

[pugsville]

You can't understand the left or society in general without understanding the Cultural Marxist hierarchy.

1 Muslims
2 People of Black African heritage
3 Other non European races
4 All the other "oppressed identities"
5 Women

What this means is that for example if a male rapist decides he wants to identify as a woman he can go to women's prison and carry on assaulting women. Or take the election of Giorgia Meloni as Italy's Prime Minister. This is absolutely massive. An absolutely massive step forward for women. That Italy should have its first ever women leader in the city of Rome no less. The Roman Empire never had an empress. This the capital of the Catholic Church this cess pit of misogyny now has a female leader, but don't expect any progressives to be celebrating this, because she is seen as reactionary to all the other much more important groups and women come last.

Or just think about 1939. People care deeply about the treatment of Jews and Slavs in Nazi controlled territory. There was some concern at the time about the treatment of Ethiopians by Mussolini's Italians or the treatment of the Chinese by the Japanese. many people still think it was a disgrace that Black African Americans were effectively disenfranchised in much of the American southern States in 1939. But who cares about the fact that women couldn't vote in France in 1939. Who cares that women couldn't vote in Switzerland in 1939.

Just Right wing propaganda.

Without basis in reality. Do you rally know or talk to left wingers or Marxists?

I mean Marxists pretty much despise identity politics, everything is class based. They generally hooked on Marxists framework of economic based analysis.

[Godstud]

Modern feminism is just a female supremacy organization. Feminizing society only breeds a weak society. Masculine women are not attractive to modern men, which is part of the reason for single parent homes.

Feminism has also led to an epidemic of single mothers. Then you have children who grow up in single parent homes and suffer all the statistical negatives that go along with that. That and an epidemic of abortions.

Effects of Fatherlessness – Teenage Statistics
63% of all youth suicides,
70% of all teen pregnancies,
71% of all adolescent chemical/substance abusers,
80% of all prison inmates, and
90% of all homeless and runaway children, came from single mother homes.


Children brought up in single mother homes are:
5 times more likely to commit suicide,
9 times more likely to drop out of high school,
10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances,
14 times more likely to commit rape,
20 times more likely to end up in prison,
32 times more likely to run away from home.
https://www.fixfamilycourts.com/single- ... rom%20home.


Women have equality of opportunity. That's as equal as it can get.

[Agent Steel]

Go take a look at Russia if you want to see where a culture of "hyper masculinity" gets you.

They breed superior soldiers to us now. There is a potential threat that exists if we accept all this feminization rhetoric in America as we allow our enemies to get stronger.

[Godstud]

No, @Agent Steel, their soldiers are NOT better. Nice try. if there's one place masculinity is NOT at risk, it's in the military.

They've done studies and found that women in the military are inferior in all aspects. This shouldn't be seen as a surprise by anyone, though.

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud I'm confused. Soldiers in the USA are better because women are inferior?

[Godstud]

No. What I'm saying is that the US military has not been weakened by women in it, and not feminized. They've recognized the problems with that. USA training and standards have not diminished and are STILL superior to that of Russia... a primarily conscripted military.

Russia is, and always has been, an inferior military in quality to pretty much every Western nation.

[Rancid]

They breed superior soldiers to us now.

Lol WHUT?

Russia is getting it's teeth kicked in. Largely due to incompetence.

That hypermasculine projection bullshit they've done for years under Putin, was... well.. all for show.

[late]

They breed superior soldiers to us now.

Their military sucks.

They have crippling problems, we could roll them up like a rug.

It's a problem for us, because their military couldn't do more than slow us down a little. Which means the only effective defense he has is nuclear. So if the war moves into a NATO country, it will quickly turn into WW3.

[Rich]

Russia is, and always has been, an inferior military in quality to pretty much every Western nation.

Russia probably had the third greatest army on the planet in 1914, second only to Germany and France. Britain's army had quality but it just lacked the size. Russia clearly out classed the Austro-Hungarians, who themselves out classed the Italians.

As I have argued military affairs are unpredictable compared to many other areas of human affairs and rarely conform to simple narratives. The French achievement in World War I was extraordinary. With large parts of their industrial / mining base occupied they not only managed to supply their own forces but also the Americans with war material, yet less than 22 years after their victory they would ignominiously collapse in a few few weeks. Paris would open their gates to the Germans rather than fight. The same Paris that had formed the commune not so long ago.

The Soviet Union on the other hand were able to decisively defeat the Japanese in 1939, enough to ensure the Japanese gave up their designs on Soviet territory. This is the same Japanese who in less than 3 years would inflict humiliation upon humiliation on the British and US armed forces. Yet less than a year after defeating Japan the Soviets would display such incompetence in invading Finland.

[Godstud]

@Rich Please note that I said "IN QUALITY".

We are not discussing Russia in WW2, but in the last 30 years after the USSR collapsed.

Even so, I was in the military in the late 80s and Allied nations were well aware of the inferiority in quality of Soviets troops. It was a part of our doctrine.

[Rancid]

@Agent Steel I think you have an incorrect sense of what masculinity really is. Perhaps you have been watching too many of those ridiculous "How to be an alpha" youtube videos. Those videos always love to use Russian mobster types that treat women like expendable objects as the gold standard for how to be man.

I think you are deeply confused with what it is to be a man, so you let these moron youtubers/"thought leaders"/asshats influence you. Which, that in itself, tells me, maybe it is you that lacks the masculinity.

Here's a hint. Masculine dudes, don't need to talk about masculinity. They just are, they just exist, and no one is preventing them from being men. This "problem" is all shit culture war morons like to manufacture to fool people like you. These are not real problems.

Grow a pair dude. Handle your business. Be true to your word. Don't be a dick to people (especially women and other more vulnerable groups).

If you want the definition of a real man. It's someone that is true to their word, and doesn't hide their intentions and actions like a punk bitch weasel. That's it. It's not about treating women like shit. It's not about fighting the "culture war" that is trying to turn us into globalhomos or whatever. That is noise you have fallen victim. You have been manipulated (which isn't very manly BTW).

Even so, I was in the military in the late 80s and Allied nations were well aware of the inferiority in quality of Soviets troops. It was a part of our doctrine.

One of the good things about western doctrines, is that, no matter how incompetent the other side is, they still take them seriously. Incompetence can be far more dangerous than competence. At this point, Russia should just be quitting in Ukraine, but the denial of their failures (incompetent) is keeping them here, prolonging suffering for no good reason. Putin hasn't realized he already lost all of the political objectives.

[Tainari88]

@Rancid you want to be stuck on a desert island with a real man like Agent Steel. Don't deny that is your deep dark secret...

Be a masculine man. Whine about everything that is worthless to whine about. Lol.

Be a macho man for real...you Austin cream puff!

Look, how you have abandoned that Penis campaign for some multicultural liberal lovefest that blows....

I was a good political person Rancid, until I met you....and then all was failure, despair, horror and pain....Hasta te conoci....vivia mi vida con amor, y ahora no soy feliz, y vivo con muy poco amor...pero algun dia comprendi....

[MistyTiger]

If you want to be in a country with no feminists, go move to Saudi Arabia. Women cannot drive. Women are hiding in plain sight because men and religious men want it that way.

I think these types of Muslim countries go too far. But how can anyone change their structure? They prefer it that way. They let the church run them.

[Agent Steel]

@Agent Steel I think you have an incorrect sense of what masculinity really is. Perhaps you have been watching too many of those ridiculous "How to be an alpha" youtube videos. Those videos always love to use Russian mobster types that treat women like expendable objects as the gold standard for how to be man.

I think you are deeply confused with what it is to be a man, so you let these moron youtubers/"thought leaders"/asshats influence you. Which, that in itself, tells me, maybe it is you that lacks the masculinity.

Actually no. I think those types of videos are stupid and I don't like them. I get them recommended to me in youtube and I have no want or need to watch them.

People who watch those videos are people who are lacking in masculinity and need someone to tell them how to live. As a person who feels secure in my masculinity I don't need to listen to that kind of advice.