[Robert Urbanek]

Yves Saint Laurent’s Libre is a staple of popular women’s perfumes. The fragrance was advertised during the holidays using the George Michael song Freedom ‘90, featuring the lyrics “I don't belong to you, and you don’t belong to me.”

So, is that the message men want to convey when they give the perfume to their woman: “I don’t belong to you, and you don’t belong to me. This is an open relationship. We can see other people.”?

The commercial also proclaims “Freedom doesn’t wait.” Perhaps YSL is telling woman, “Don’t wait for a man to buy you Libre. Buy it for yourself to declare your freedom.”

Being alone is being powerful. Yeah.

[late]

Yves Saint Laurent’s Libre is a staple of popular women’s perfumes. The fragrance was advertised during the holidays using the George Michael song Freedom ‘90, featuring the lyrics “I don't belong to you, and you don’t belong to me.”

So, is that the message men want to convey when they give the perfume to their woman: “I don’t belong to you, and you don’t belong to me. This is an open relationship. We can see other people.”?

The commercial also proclaims “Freedom doesn’t wait.” Perhaps YSL is telling woman, “Don’t wait for a man to buy you Libre. Buy it for yourself to declare your freedom.”

Being alone is being powerful. Yeah.

They're selling nostalgia.

[ckaihatsu]

Yves Saint Laurent’s Libre is a staple of popular women’s perfumes. The fragrance was advertised during the holidays using the George Michael song Freedom ‘90, featuring the lyrics “I don't belong to you, and you don’t belong to me.”

So, is that the message men want to convey when they give the perfume to their woman: “I don’t belong to you, and you don’t belong to me. This is an open relationship. We can see other people.”?

The commercial also proclaims “Freedom doesn’t wait.” Perhaps YSL is telling woman, “Don’t wait for a man to buy you Libre. Buy it for yourself to declare your freedom.”

Being alone is being powerful. Yeah.

They're selling nostalgia.

'Radical' feminism / bourgeois feminism.

[late]

'Radical' feminism / bourgeois feminism.

You have got to stop doing that.

[ckaihatsu]

'Radical' feminism / bourgeois feminism.

You have got to stop doing that.

Well, *you* didn't, so *someone's* gotta.

[ckaihatsu]

Sanctions against Iraq

On May 12, 1996, then-ambassador Albright defended UN sanctions against Iraq on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her, "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" and Albright replied, "We think the price is worth it."[126][127]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine ... ainst_Iraq

[late]

Well, *you* didn't, so *someone's* gotta.

I am going to assume there is a question sloppily buried in that.

What is being sold is a nostalgia for the partly mythical beginnings of a women's sex life. Time and misery tends to put a gloss on memory.

[Robert Urbanek]

Here is one version of the televised ad:

https://youtu.be/9yNwZMHsuJ8

There is no man in the ad. Perhaps the bird is supposed to represent a man who only comes when she beckons him. By the way, falconers generally don't use a bird that large. I wonder if it's a computer-generated image.

[late]

Here is one version of the televised ad:

https://youtu.be/9yNwZMHsuJ8

There is no man in the ad. Perhaps the bird is supposed to represent a man who only comes when she beckons him. By the way, falconers generally don't use a bird that large. I wonder if it's a computer-generated image.

Hmmm, I didn't watch it before. Yeah, the eagle is likely computer generated. Not that I know anything about it, but I never heard of falconers using anything but falcons.

The ad screams I'm horny, f*** me now. Ads of that sort used to be less... direct.

[ckaihatsu]

So, is that the message men want to convey when they give the perfume to their woman: “I don’t belong to you, and you don’t belong to me. This is an open relationship. We can see other people.”?

---

What is being sold is a nostalgia for the partly mythical beginnings of a women's sex life. Time and misery tends to put a gloss on memory.

Okay, so if sexual-beginnings and anti-traditional sexual *choice* / liberation are at-play here, then the overall idea is a femininity-based *power*, perhaps along the lines of Foucault, like the 'Freedom for Convoys' bunch who wanted the *idea* of 'power' over Canada's federal government in Ottawa. Should right-wing truckers or Madeleine Albright be able to pursue socially-sectarian power goals using the excuse of 'minority empowerment' and/or 'righting-past-wrongs' / 'social justice' -- ?

Radical feminism

Radical feminism arose from the radical wing of second-wave feminism and calls for a radical reordering of society to eliminate male supremacy. It considers the male-controlled capitalist hierarchy as the defining feature of women's oppression and the total uprooting and reconstruction of society as necessary.[7] Separatist feminism does not support heterosexual relationships. Lesbian feminism is thus closely related. Other feminists criticize separatist feminism as sexist.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#Radical_feminism

[Robert Urbanek]

I’m trying to image Don Draper explaining the appeal of this ad in one of his Mad Men brainstorming sessions.

[late]

Okay, so if sexual-beginnings and anti-traditional sexual *choice* / liberation are at-play here, then the overall idea is a femininity-based *power*, perhaps along the lines of Foucault, like the 'Freedom for Convoys' bunch who wanted the *idea* of 'power' over Canada's federal government in Ottawa. Should right-wing truckers or Madeleine Albright be able to pursue socially-sectarian power goals using the excuse of 'minority empowerment' and/or 'righting-past-wrongs' / 'social justice' -- ?

Please understand I am trying to help, even if my innate grumpiness makes it look otherwise. You have to focus. You don't need to try and score big points with every sentence. Think of a paragraph as a house built for your idea to live in.

If one side is a castle, the next is Bauhaus, and the third is gingerbread traditional, it's going to fail and take your message down with it.

They are selling perfume, and sex sells. See? That's a simple declarative sentence that unambiguously communicates.

I used to be an activist, there are different types of feminist, they have very different goals. If you're going to talk about them, perhaps you should learn the different types that comprise that zoo.

Meow..

[Rich]

I fail to see what the big problem with this advert is. Now I know advertising standards was a major trigger for the reformation and the ensuing wars of religion. Apparently it was alleged that the Catholic Church had made misleading claims for some of its indulgences product range. But I'm not convinced that these perfume adverts really rise to the same level of public interest.

[ckaihatsu]

Please understand I am trying to help, even if my innate grumpiness makes it look otherwise. You have to focus. You don't need to try and score big points with every sentence. Think of a paragraph as a house built for your idea to live in.

If one side is a castle, the next is Bauhaus, and the third is gingerbread traditional, it's going to fail and take your message down with it.

They are selling perfume, and sex sells. See? That's a simple declarative sentence that unambiguously communicates.

I used to be an activist, there are different types of feminist, they have very different goals. If you're going to talk about them, perhaps you should learn the different types that comprise that zoo.

Meow..

Yeah, it *is* a diverse field, and seems almost as splintered as *gender* in general.

If one side is a castle, the next is Bauhaus, and the third is gingerbread traditional, it's going to fail and take your message down with it.

If you need this done-up in 3D, lemme know -- ! (grin)

[ckaihatsu]

The *thing* with 'radical feminism' (as in directly to war-criminal status) is that it *sounds* good on-paper (Wikipedia), but in the real-world the term has tended to be 'competitive with men, by gender', despite the resulting mismatch with its face-value ('a radical reordering of society to eliminate male supremacy').

In other words I think the counterculture '60s New Left 'radical feminism' has *necessarily* had to play-out in the *real world* of a definite *power hierarchy*, and so the 'results' of 'radical feminism' will *have* to reflect-back some of that 'culture' of the overall power culture.

We get to see *glimpses*, or 'snapshots' in the news of where gender relations are today, but in the end, to what *end* -- ?

The further-left critique of radical feminism in theory or in practice is that it's predicated on *gender* being the main social division / problem in society -- 'male supremacy'. Where it goes from *there* then leads into the foward-looking *splintering* -- even *more* apparent in the *transgendered* panoply of 'gender'.

[Radical feminism] considers the male-controlled capitalist hierarchy as the defining feature of women's oppression and the total uprooting and reconstruction of society as necessary.[7]

[late]

The *thing* with 'radical feminism' (as in directly to war-criminal status) is that it *sounds* good on-paper (Wikipedia), but in the real-world the term has tended to be 'competitive with men, by gender', despite the resulting mismatch with its face-value ('a radical reordering of society to eliminate male supremacy').

In other words I think the counterculture '60s New Left 'radical feminism' has *necessarily* had to play-out in the *real world* of a definite *power hierarchy*, and so the 'results' of 'radical feminism' will *have* to reflect-back some of that 'culture' of the overall power culture.

We get to see *glimpses*, or 'snapshots' in the news of where gender relations are today, but in the end, to what *end* -- ?

The further-left critique of radical feminism in theory or in practice is that it's predicated on *gender* being the main social division / problem in society -- 'male supremacy'. Where it goes from *there* then leads into the foward-looking *splintering* -- even *more* apparent in the *transgendered* panoply of 'gender'.

You just slammed together 2 or 3 quite different types of feminism.

Since I was overly subtle before, it looks to me like you just stomped whatever your message was into a bloody mess.

[ckaihatsu]

You just slammed together 2 or 3 quite different types of feminism.

Since I was overly subtle before, it looks to me like you just stomped whatever your message was into a bloody mess.

Do-it-[up]-*yourself*, then.

[ckaihatsu]

I'll add that we could *extend* the analogy, to think of a government-type *deskful* of stacks of different kinds of currencies, so that one 'takes-on', or 'sells-out' different kinds of political ideologies, through word and deed.

*And*, the *underlying* 'popularity' / 'trading' value of each ideology-note will fluctuate, of course, in realtime, based on overall public buy-in. (Note the *scores* of anti-authoritarian / left-populist international domestic protests, from roughly 2017 to the present.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2022_protests

[late]

I'll add that we could *extend* the analogy, to think of a government-type *deskful* of stacks of different kinds of currencies, so that one 'takes-on', or 'sells-out' different kinds of political ideologies, through word and deed.

*And*, the *underlying* 'popularity' / 'trading' value of each ideology-note will fluctuate, of course, in realtime, based on overall public buy-in. (Note the *scores* of anti-authoritarian / left-populist international domestic protests, from roughly 2017 to the present.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2022_protests

Sounds like baseball trading cards. When I was a kid, they came free in a pack of gum.

[late]

Do-it-[up]-*yourself*, then.

I rarely understand your points.