[Agent Steel]

@Pants-of-dog So how do you explain all the instances where conversion therapy has worked? Are you just going to deny every one of them? Not a single one of them is legitimate? Because if so it would destroy your view about sexual orientation being not a choice, wouldn't it?

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog So how do you explain all the instances where conversion therapy has worked? Are you just going to deny every one of them? Not a single one of them is legitimate? Because if so it would destroy your view about sexual orientation being not a choice, wouldn't it?

Sexual orientation is not a choice as far as I can tell.

It would be difficult or impossible for me to convince myself I am attracted to males.

However, I also know we can lie to ourselves about what makes us happy. And we do this in romantic relationships all the time, unfortunately.

And sexual behaviour is a choice.

All that to say that a gay person can pretend to be straight and it can then make it seem as if conversion therapy was successful when it was not.

[Agent Steel]

@Pants-of-dog But again, many people claim very ardently that they have successfully transitioned.

They are not lying to themselves. They were once gay and now are straight.

How do you explain this?

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog But again, many people claim very ardently that they have successfully transitioned.

They are not lying to themselves. They were once gay and now are straight.

How do you explain this?

I doubt very much that many people like this exist. The real question is whether or not this is more than what we would expect from the placebo effect, and whether or not there are societal factors involved as well. The fact that a few people think it might have helped does not change the fact that the vast majority of people do nit think they can choose their sexual orientation.

Can you choose to be gay? Try it and let me know.

[QatzelOk]

Is homosexuality a choice?

All sexual activity is "a choice" with the exception of rape.

So this is the type of fake enquiry that homophobes often use to mask their lack of comfort with sexuality in general.

Caged animals (or humans living in societies) have an awkward relationship with sexuality in general. So if they are "phobic" about particular sexual behaviors... it's because of their condition as domesticated mammals living according to the official lies of the state.

[Agent Steel]

I doubt very much that many people like this exist.

They swear on their life that they do indeed. You just don't hear about them because leftist fanatics assert that science says it can't happen. Such people do speak out but they get a skeptical reaction like yours. They change through the power of God and prayer.

If someone swears they changed their sexual orientation, we should believe them.

[Pants-of-dog]

They swear on their life that they do indeed. You just don't hear about them because leftist fanatics assert that science says it can't happen. Such people do speak out but they get a skeptical reaction like yours. They change through the power of God and prayer.

If someone swears they changed their sexual orientation, we should believe them.

So you were able to make yourself gay, then?

How were you able to convince yourself that you were attracted to men?

[Agent Steel]

So you were able to make yourself gay, then?

How were you able to convince yourself that you were attracted to men?

As far as I know, I have always been heterosexual.

I'm talking about the people who were once gay and successfully converted to be straight.

The world is full of inexplicable, miraculous cases of healing that defy scientific understanding.

People pray and their prayers get answered.

[Fasces]

Why do prayers make people straight and not gay?

[Pants-of-dog]

As far as I know, I have always been heterosexual.

I'm talking about the people who were once gay and successfully converted to be straight.

Like I said, people can lie to themselves too.

But if you think sexual orientation is a choice, then you can choose to be gay.

So do so and see if it works.

The world is full of inexplicable, miraculous cases of healing that defy scientific understanding.

People pray and their prayers get answered.

The largest study yet on the therapeutic power of prayer by strangers has found that it provided no benefit to the recovery of patients who had undergone cardiac bypass surgery.

In an unexpected twist, patients who knew prayers were being said for them had more complications after surgery than those who did not know, researchers reported Thursday.

The complications were minor, and doctors surmised that they could have been caused by the increased stress on patients worried that their conditions were so bad they needed prayers.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[QatzelOk]

As far as I know, I have always been heterosexual.

I'm talking about the people who were once gay and successfully converted to be straight.

The world is full of inexplicable, miraculous cases of healing that defy scientific understanding.

People pray and their prayers get answered.

90% of most populations are predominantly heterosexual. So if you want to scapegoat a particular sexuality, "gay" will always be a minority. Thus, possible to do.

This is why Abrahamic religions chose to create a "gay evil" rather than a "straight evil." The numbers game.

This is very good marketing, but very bad philosophy.

[Agent Steel]

@QatzelOk Are you a gay man?

[Pants-of-dog]

@QatzelOk Are you a gay man?

How go your ongoing efforts to make yourself gay?

[QatzelOk]

@QatzelOk Are you a gay man?

Yes, I am gay, and I am a man.

This makes me a gay man.

Don't listen to Pod's crap about axe-murderes "all being gay."

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, I am gay, and I am a man.

This makes me a gay man.

Don't listen to Pod's crap about axe-murderes "all being gay."

You are being misleading about my claims.

Either you misunderstood or you are lying.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are confused.

[Drlee]

This topic is rife with circular arguments and it crops up from time to time. Pulling the age card for a moment leads me to this:

At the end of the day the subject of how someone decides or comes to be homosexual only counts on an individual level. I thought the comment above about women only dating men because they can't stand to date a woman was a bit comical though.

As to how we react to another person's homosexuality is another thing altogether. We can be disgusted with the very thought, apathetic, constrained by religious beliefs or full-on let your freaky flag fly. Again it only matters on a personal level.

What IS a choice is this....how we treat others based upon their sexual preference. Civilization is defined by the baser instincts we constrain not indulge. It is boorish, childish and mean to treat others badly for things that are simply none of our business. You can loathe the entire idea of homosexuality but as a gentle-man/woman you do not let that show. If there is one trait that seems to be common among very smart people it is the combination of kindness and compassion so many of them display.

While granting that my generation has much to answer for, one deeply concerning loss in mine and worsening in the ensuing generations is the notion that the world should give a rats ass what we feel about things that do not concern us at all. It makes just as much intellectual sense to condemn a man for wearing green as it does to condemn a woman for being a lesbian.

It is also worth mentioning that in the US at least identity politics surrounding many so-called issues, like abortion, race and sexual preference (to name just three) have contrived to make us very doctrinaire on issues which would normally not matter to us much at all. "All Republicans are anti-abortion, racist and homophobic" while "all democrats are pro-abortion, anti-racist and fully accepting of all sexual preferences". We all know that this is not the case on an individual level but we can't escape the fact that in voting for one party or the other we are, in-effect, all-in on all three. Sadly our failed political system in the US has taken all political influence from a gay republican or a pro-life democrat. All influence.

I find it odd to say but I think I have come to the conclusion that in the case of homosexuality people of quality keep their opinions to themselves and most importantly, do not act to harm other people covertly or overtly. So I really don't care what others think about sexual preference but I care a great deal what they do about it.

[QatzelOk]

At the end of the day the subject of how someone decides or comes to be homosexual only counts on an individual level.

Likewise, how someone decides "not" to be homosexual... is really their own personal journey, and none of my business (unless they want to open up and share this with me).

...how we react to another person's homosexuality is another thing altogether. We can be disgusted with the very thought, apathetic, constrained by religious beliefs or full-on let your freaky flag fly. Again it only matters on a personal level...

This is kind of bizarre. The idea that one should "react" to the homosexuality of someone else. A lot of gay men I know used to act revolted when straights (heteros) would walk through the Gay Village area of my city. And then, after the straights would pass, this gay clique would utter nasty, critical things about the intruders and what "dumb trash" they were.

Is this what your sanctionning here when you talk about the "perfectly natural act" of being revolted by other people's sexuality? Do you really think this is healthy?

What IS a choice is this....how we treat others based upon their sexual preference.

Uh-oh. As a minority, this idea that we treat others a particular way "based upon their sexuality" scares me because this means that I can be scapegoated if there's an economic depression, a war, or some other terrifying mass formation psychosis event.

It reminds me of how people were treating others "based on their vaccine status" a few years ago. Do you really think this is a sign of a healthy community?

Civilization is defined by the baser instincts we constrain not indulge.

Yes, the sublimation of natural behaviors is part and parcel of civilization. Now explain this to Darwin, so that he understands that nature is just something that needs to be flushed down the toilette (our porcelaine god) that we have created and called "civilization."

You can loathe the entire idea of homosexuality

"All Republicans are anti-abortion, racist and homophobic"

our failed political system in the US has taken all political influence from a gay republican

in the case of homosexuality people of quality keep their opinions to themselves

In these four statements, you have killed the object of your affection by instrumentalizing them (these other humans) in order to mark political points. And your "wise" conclusion that people should keep their opinions to themselves... seems inappropriate for a political discussion forum. Are you keeping Julian Assange captive in your basement, Drlee?