Purpose of life - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

An atheist-free area for those of religious belief to discuss religious topics.

Moderator: PoFo Agora Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. Religious topics may be discussed here or in The Agora. However, this forum is intended specifically as an area for those with religious belief to discuss religion without threads being derailed by atheist arguments. Please respect that. Political topics regarding religion belong in the Religion forum in the Political Issues section.
By Beirut
#13146892
Since the “Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the universe since that instant” then I definitely believe in a creator, God.
I am not very into religion (I don’t practice rituals, yet), and somehow confused.
I don’t understand how humans have freedom of choice or freewill! Since God knows everything then humans are compelled to acts as God knew beforehand; thus, there isn't any freewill…

Nevertheless, "we will be judged on the judgment day based on our acts in life."
However, God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time, and He knows what will happen. So the “life” purpose thing seems useless. Technically, everyone’s future and afterlife is already known by God.
It’s like someone who is reading a story for the second time, who already knows all the actions and what will happen next…
Hence, what's the purpose of life and the judgment day? :?:
User avatar
By Nattering Nabob
#13147113
Technically, everyone’s future and afterlife is already known by God.
It’s like someone who is reading a story for the second time, who already knows all the actions and what will happen next…
Hence, what's the purpose of life and the judgment day?


Oddly enough this very issue was addressed by the Apostle Paul in Romans:

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea:
"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[i] 26and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "
By Muslim
#13147625
Beirut wrote:Since God knows everything then humans are compelled to acts as God knew beforehand;

No. God, by definition, doesn't have a time. Time can't exist separate of the universe, and since the universe is created, so is time. Consequently, you can not say that God knows something before/after it happens. And the judgment day is not a future or past for God.
User avatar
By Nattering Nabob
#13148023
God, by definition, doesn't have a time. Time can't exist separate of the universe, and since the universe is created, so is time. Consequently, you can not say that God knows something before/after it happens. And the judgment day is not a future or past for God.


Well, this is how John Calvin put it:

When we attribute foreknowledge to God, we mean that all things have ever been, and perpetually remain, before His eyes, so that to His knowledge nothing is future or past, but all things are present: and present in such a manner that He does not merely conceive of them from ideas formed in His mind, as things remembered by us appear present to our minds, but really beholds and sees them as if actually placed before Him.
By Beirut
#13148086
Muslim wrote:No. God, by definition, doesn't have a time. Time can't exist separate of the universe, and since the universe is created, so is time.
And the judgment day is not a future or past for God.

Agreed.
Nattering Nabob wrote:When we attribute foreknowledge to God, we mean that all things have ever been, and perpetually remain, before His eyes, so that to His knowledge nothing is future or past, but all things are present: and present in such a manner that He does not merely conceive of them from ideas formed in His mind, as things remembered by us appear present to our minds, but really beholds and sees them as if actually placed before Him.

Yes, thus, His foreknowledge is absolute...
Muslim wrote: Consequently, you can not say that God knows something before/after it happens.

before/after, past/future based on human mind/human time/earth time. As you said, God doesn't have a time. So under His eyes all things are present(He is placing everything).
But, God has written everything since the creation of the universe.(according to Qadaa w Qadar).So He knows everything. "Thus, His foreknowledge is absolute."
Last edited by Beirut on 31 Aug 2009 16:20, edited 1 time in total.
By Muslim
#13148096
Let me rephrase it.

God doesn't decide what you do. He just knows. Just spend a little of time thinking about a timeless being and you will understand that the word "foreknowledge" itself is not that simple as people think of it.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#13148217
NO one judges you, but your actions have reactions. There is no God as a seperate entity, God is everything and we are part of God.
By Beirut
#13149283
God doesn't decide what you do. He just knows. Just spend a little of time thinking about a timeless being and you will understand that the word "foreknowledge" itself is not that simple as people think of it.

Oh ok. So He knew what humans will chose, wrote it in the llawh al mahfuz and let it happen..got it :)
By chaostrivia
#13171872
God doesn't decide what you do. He just knows. Just spend a little of time thinking about a timeless being and you will understand that the word "foreknowledge" itself is not that simple as people think of it.

:?:
If he knows then how come he expects you to do this or that, if it is not even your decision.
How come people punish other people in the name of god, if it was god's will that the "criminals" will do what they did?
If he made you do everything you did, what's there to judge you about on "judgement day"?
User avatar
By Gork
#13172006
Aquinas has, I think, the best explanation, tying foreknowledge (a misnomer in this theory) to free will.

God is outside the Universe, and thus outside Time. He sees the universe in an "eternal instant", as if each infinitesimal fraction of time (the smallest measure of time found is called a femtosecond, so we'll use that) is laid out in 3-d movie frames. Into any femtosecond he can dip his hand, interact with surroundings, or inject himself as in Jesus, and all of it happens at the same time.

Oddly, Philip K. Dick, a self-avowed Gnostic, claimed that the Apostle Paul appeared to him in a vision and told him that past , future and causality are illusions brought on by the way our minds perceive the eternal instant. He also did a lot of drugs, so I doubt this really happened.
By Aekos
#13196748
There is no God as a seperate entity, God is everything and we are part of God.


We were part of God.
By Aekos
#13197346
Here is earth, or a lower dimension, and there is the realm of the ineffable, the One, God. We used to be part of that realm, but then the Big Bang happened, the artificial world was created, and we're here. We're only here because of the illusion we believe (that we're here).
By Quantum
#13198619
chaostrivia wrote: :?:
If he knows then how come he expects you to do this or that, if it is not even your decision.
How come people punish other people in the name of god, if it was god's will that the "criminals" will do what they did?
If he made you do everything you did, what's there to judge you about on "judgement day"?


I use the chocolate milk analogy to counter this question. If I gave a child the choice between drinking chocolate milk or carrot juice, I know that he will choose the chocolate milk even though he could have chosen the carrot juice. God is supposed to be omnipotent and all knowing but our actions ultimately determine our outcome and God just writes it down.

It seems from this quote that you are itching to […]

Everyone knows the answer to this question. The […]

More incoherent ramblings as one can expect from […]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Wait, what ? South Korea defeated communists ? Whe[…]