My journey to Christian Communism; reflections - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14561034
quetzalcoatl wrote:I don't think Christianity presumes capitalism, although it is not primarily interested it in overthrowing it (or any other secular order). Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think Jesus was condemning material goods per se, but rather the idolatry of property. Since capitalists quite explicitly idolize property, they exile themselves from the Christian community - perhaps without understanding they do so.

A distinct strand of western philosophy derives all other rights from property, beginning with the ownership of the self. Both capitalism and communism share this basic assumption, but go in different directions with it. Capitalists assume that ownership, whether of self or labor, is transferable based on the free exchange among sovereign individuals. Communists assume that self-ownership cannot be waived or transferred in this fashion, and that enterprise must thus be owned collectively. Christians see human worth not in terms of self-ownership or a sovereign self, but in submission to the will of God.

Annatar's version of Christian communism can't be a legal or state structure, it would seem to me. It would grow organically out of a Christian community following the teachings of Jesus.

I agree with you, though we seem to have different definitions of the word capitalism. I am referring only to a free market system.
#14561377
quetzalcoatl wrote:
Annatar's version of Christian communism can't be a legal or state structure, it would seem to me. It would grow organically out of a Christian community following the teachings of Jesus.


Once society gets to a certain point though, even the Fathers agree that compulsion or expulsion is sometimes necessary to retain the structure of that society from back-sliding into a lesser state, in my opinion.

This parallels the experiences of St. Augustine with the Donatist heretics, who were being coerced by the Roman civil authorities at one point to re-enter the Catholic and Orthodox Faith. He at first was against their coercion but as he saw how these people began to go back to being what they were before, he realized that people are so contrarian and dense socially that they do not realize the value of what they left behind by returning to error, until they are confronted with it in a crisis. He still was against the death penalty used upon them though.

Is this not what has been done in a secular Communism, only much more so and encompassing much unfortunate counter-productive elements towards bringing about Communism, as well as silencing counter-revolution?

Saying this, I know Conscript for one might say that i'm 'reactionary' after all, but just like some Marxists, I take an evolutionary view of society and progress. Not that truths change, but people's acceptance of them. That being so, St. Constantine the Roman Emperor and his acceptance of Christianity, and the subsequent making by Emperor Theodosius of Christianity as the State Religion, was a fateful step in the social and spiritual evolution of mankind, socially, as a step towards Communism. Safe from persecution and then accepted as social truth by the State, the precepts of Christianity could gradually work their way into individual souls and make a collective social fermentation towards progress. The reaction against this Christianity in gestation, equally inevitable as an Antithesis, produced modern Capitalism.
#14561630
annatar1914 wrote:...Is this not what has been done in a secular Communism, only much more so and encompassing much unfortunate counter-productive elements towards bringing about Communism, as well as silencing counter-revolution?

Saying this, I know Conscript for one might say that i'm 'reactionary' after all, but just like some Marxists, I take an evolutionary view of society and progress. Not that truths change, but people's acceptance of them. That being so, St. Constantine the Roman Emperor and his acceptance of Christianity, and the subsequent making by Emperor Theodosius of Christianity as the State Religion, was a fateful step in the social and spiritual evolution of mankind, socially, as a step towards Communism. Safe from persecution and then accepted as social truth by the State, the precepts of Christianity could gradually work their way into individual souls and make a collective social fermentation towards progress. The reaction against this Christianity in gestation, equally inevitable as an Antithesis, produced modern Capitalism.


In the absence of Kingdom Come (is this is what you are really talking about?), human nature must upset any applecart. There will always be an antithesis. The way of Christ is not easy or comfortable, nor does it appease the individual ego. How intensive must the weeding out of counter-productive elements be, in order to prevent that inevitable antithesis? The troubling question is the fate of conscience and compassion in an oppressive regime; once compassion is abandoned the door to the Gulag swings wide open.

I see two abiding dangers such a world would face. The first is cynicism: the mere presence of levers of repression is an unbearable temptation to the venal. The second is fanaticism: silencing counter-revolution is only the merest step away from quashing moral choice. (Quashing moral choice is no problem at all for a Stalinist, but it is a very real problem for the spiritual nature of a Christian regime.) Incidentally, the two dangers are not mutually exclusive. They can exist at the same time, and even in the same person.
#14561656
quetzalcoatl wrote:
In the absence of Kingdom Come (is this is what you are really talking about?), human nature must upset any applecart. There will always be an antithesis. The way of Christ is not easy or comfortable, nor does it appease the individual ego. How intensive must the weeding out of counter-productive elements be, in order to prevent that inevitable antithesis? The troubling question is the fate of conscience and compassion in an oppressive regime; once compassion is abandoned the door to the Gulag swings wide open.

I see two abiding dangers such a world would face. The first is cynicism: the mere presence of levers of repression is an unbearable temptation to the venal. The second is fanaticism: silencing counter-revolution is only the merest step away from quashing moral choice. (Quashing moral choice is no problem at all for a Stalinist, but it is a very real problem for the spiritual nature of a Christian regime.) Incidentally, the two dangers are not mutually exclusive. They can exist at the same time, and even in the same person.


Well, i'm saying that those levers of coercion were already instituted after a fashion, but that the development of Christianity was retarded and held back by the struggle of the Greco-Roman Civilization Christianity was embeded in as a 'Leaven', by the pressure of the Germanic and then Islamic invasions for over a millenia. So, there was no very great fermentation of evolutionary social forces withinChristendom, only a holding of position so to speak, which enabled heretical versions of Christianity to break off and formulate an Economic System more congenial to the Free Market, Usury, Capitalism, Finance, and Private Property. By the time this new system was fully in place in the 19th century, the few Communists that arose were people disenchanted with Christianity as it stood, to say the least.

Not to mention that this new system well described by Max Weber, has rejected even the toadying versions of 'Christianity', pretty much for the Satanic Libertarianism of Ayn Rand and company.

Interesting though that even this form of Communism cut off from it's roots, came into power and lasted for decades in Russia, spiritual heart of Orthodox Christianity
#14562126
A number of things in recent months have been nagging at me, like a running sore, helping me turn 'Leftwards', whatever that means. Part of it is simple daily life; working the work that I do, and it's dehumanizing aspects, the view it offers me of the psychopathic nature of Capitalism in the real world, not in theory, the screaming injustice of no free education and healthcare and many other true rights in a society that literally doesn't give a shit about the poor working class people.

The daily harassment of creditors, the daily rush to make money and pay bills (for utilities that should be free!) and relentless anxiety as one struggles to stay afloat in a world that rejects anything or anyone not fitting it's immoral utilitarian rubrics.

The struggles and agonies of friends and loved ones, hopeless and helpless against the System. I just didn't see it too much, before my conversion to Orthodoxy. I used to 'mystify' suffering and injustice,wickedness and immorality, making it like Mandeville's 'Fable of the Bees'. If I had fancied myself at one time as an 'Agrarian Communist' It was an afterthought; peasants peacefully toiling away on collective communes, never asking before how such a thing arises, or re-arises. No, I'm not an Utopian Christian Communist, I'm a Red Soviet and Orthodox Christian in my thinking, modern, not reactionary. I'm probably like this guy, one V.G. Rasputin.... I found a Russian WIKI article on him, not reading Cyrillic, but my Russian friends might appreciate;

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0 ... 0%B8%D1%87

If I were Russian, i'd probably work for or vote for the KPRF and it's goals. Today, I think that if given a chance, I'd vote for Bernie Sanders here in America.

I am so done with Capitalism. I'll work within it, with peace and non-violence using the weapons of prayer and education, but I won't support it in my real life any more than I have to.
#14562450
I have to say when I first listened to Obama the resemblance to the Jesus of the Gospels was so uncanny that I did wonder if this might not be the second coming. They both had this ability to wax so eloquent, to express such sentiment, to inspire without saying anything of substance what soever. If Jesus does ever say anything concrete then its contradicted somewhere else in the New Testament. The literal meaning is often absurd or extreme. Its these qualities that seem to lead to confusion about Islam. As Christianity is so empty of of structure, so lacking in any clear message what soever, so malleable, it can be utilised for anything from Communism to extreme Libertarianism. From chop your nuts off to avoid felling a lust to Gay marriage is a consummation of the Gospel. At least when combined with the classical biographies of Mohammed its pretty clear what the jist of Islam is.
#14562485
Rich wrote:I have to say when I first listened to Obama the resemblance to the Jesus of the Gospels was so uncanny that I did wonder if this might not be the second coming. They both had this ability to wax so eloquent, to express such sentiment, to inspire without saying anything of substance what soever. If Jesus does ever say anything concrete then its contradicted somewhere else in the New Testament. The literal meaning is often absurd or extreme. Its these qualities that seem to lead to confusion about Islam. As Christianity is so empty of of structure, so lacking in any clear message what soever, so malleable, it can be utilised for anything from Communism to extreme Libertarianism. From chop your nuts off to avoid felling a lust to Gay marriage is a consummation of the Gospel. At least when combined with the classical biographies of Mohammed its pretty clear what the jist of Islam is.


If you are so desperate for attention you should try one of those online dating sites...

Just sayin...
#14562507
Rich, you wrote;

If Jesus does ever say anything concrete then its contradicted somewhere else in the New Testament.


But right afterwards;

The literal meaning is often absurd or extreme.


Translation; you don't like what Jesus Christ says, it makes you feel uncomfortable.
#14892788
I look back on this thread with a bit of bittersweet and slightly melancholy reverie... It's Great Lent after all, and certainly reflective.

Yes, I'm necroposting, after a three year hiatus. But this subject seems even more dear to me, after my changes in life, my time in Russia, that great and wonderful country.

I saw the signs everywhere, as if submerged just beneath the surface were relics of an ancient bygone era, which oddly was ''only'' 1991 AD. I saw it in odd corners and on city squares, seeming incongruities and strange remnants. Memories of younger people who seem to think it was all a bizarre dream, memories of older people who would love to see It return...



All that struggle and sacrifice, it could not have been all in vain, could it have been?

I felt at times as if I was going mad, as an American and as a man, a real disconnect... ''What do you mean, free healthcare?'', Free Rent, Free Utilities, Guaranteed Employment, Free Education, enviable vacation time.... And now it's more like the West. "My God, how naive! What have they done?"

An Enemy had to have done this, this deception. You don't know what you've got until it's gone, some cases you don't know what you were against until you realize that you shouldn't have been against it in the first place.

This is why i'm back. I want it to work, this time, next time. We won't have a choice much longer; Socialism or BARBARISM, the End of Civilization.
#14892963
SolarCross wrote:As it turned out socialism IS barbarism, why would it be different another time?



Image


All revolutions in their youth are cruel; ask about the 500,000 American Loyalists who were expelled from the United States after the American Revolution. We're dealing with imperfect human nature here, a few like Angels, some like Devils, most somewhere in between.

Socialism isn't Barbarism, it's what will preserve Civilization from the New Dark Age. You see, I define Civilization as that which is favorable to Republics, which are founded on the Common Good, public trust over private ''rights'' based on accident of birth or wealth or lack thereof. Barbarian Nations, no matter how technologically proficient or culturally enlightened, are still savage, founded as they are on personal power over others.

Socialists, cruel and imperfect human beings though they may be personally, recognize almost by instinct these matters. You yourself may be one who rejoices in the ''Rights'' of personal power over others, but let's call a spade a spade, there's far more cruelty and degradation involved on the Anti-Socialist, Anti-Communist side.
#14893131
annatar1914 wrote:All revolutions in their youth are cruel; ask about the 500,000 American Loyalists who were expelled from the United States after the American Revolution. We're dealing with imperfect human nature here, a few like Angels, some like Devils, most somewhere in between.

Socialism isn't Barbarism, it's what will preserve Civilization from the New Dark Age. You see, I define Civilization as that which is favorable to Republics, which are founded on the Common Good, public trust over private ''rights'' based on accident of birth or wealth or lack thereof. Barbarian Nations, no matter how technologically proficient or culturally enlightened, are still savage, founded as they are on personal power over others.

Socialists, cruel and imperfect human beings though they may be personally, recognize almost by instinct these matters. You yourself may be one who rejoices in the ''Rights'' of personal power over others, but let's call a spade a spade, there's far more cruelty and degradation involved on the Anti-Socialist, Anti-Communist side.

Government is a military institution, commerce is a civilian activity. That is the dichotomy of "public" and "private"; it is the dichotomy of military and civilian. It is the civilian who puts the civility into civilisation not the military. The military makes civilisation possible by guarding civilians from the barbarians not by becoming the barbarians or by militarising civilian activities.

The socialists seems to want to bring military and civilian into strife with each other to make them want each other's roles. The socialists urge for the military to take over civilian commerce and for the civilians to take up arms against the government... so for revolution.. and revolution is "civil" war, a war between former civilians and barbarised soldiers. In the aftermath they make a socialist society, which is indistinguishable from a militarised society, this is your totalitarianism and it is as bad as any barbarism. The rest is just cheap lying slogans.
#14893137
@annatar1914,

Good Sir,

If you would be willing, I would like to engage you in a mutual charitable Christian debate regarding our different worldviews on this thread. I think this thread will be appropriate because you have here more-or-less declared your position of Christian communism, and since I think I understand it sufficiently I would like to engage you in it.

I expect this will result in carefully argued, always charitable, and long-winded posts. I do NOT expect you, and I would ask the same from you, to not expect from me, to get to posting a response in quick succession. Indeed, I would prefer us to engage in long and thoughtful debate on this topic that could sometimes take a week or so between posts if needed.

I will be positing, in contra-distinction from your position, my position which advocates for private property and natural hierarchies along monarchal and aristocratic lines as being more consistent with the spirit of Christianity. I will also be arguing about the significance of War and expansion and how such is likewise not inconsistent with Christianity or Christian morality. I want this to be an intellectual discussion where we can discuss the Scriptures, the teachings of the Fathers, the history of states, as well as influences; whether they be Marx, Spengler, Freud, Dostoevsky, Calvin, Von Mises, or Lenin.

If you are interested in this conversation please let me know. I would like your commitment before I start to engage. I envision something I can get to once a week with a glass of wine and books on table.

I am looking forward to seeing if you accept this challenge, among gentlemen of the True Faith.

Thanks, and Blessings.

- VS
#14893163
Thank you Victoribus S, you said;

Good Sir,

If you would be willing, I would like to engage you in a mutual charitable Christian debate regarding our different worldviews on this thread. I think this thread will be appropriate because you have here more-or-less declared your position of Christian communism, and since I think I understand it sufficiently I would like to engage you in it.


Sure, I'd be happy to! I will have to say that my 'declaration' is by no means exhaustive, as I have modified my position over the years somewhat, refined it a little. Thus you will find that I quote Scripture, the Church Fathers, and from Orthodox Saints rather than secular and atheistic Communists.

That is not to say that I will not speak of secular and atheistic Communism or the experience of the Soviet Union.

I expect this will result in carefully argued, always charitable, and long-winded posts. I do NOT expect you, and I would ask the same from you, to not expect from me, to get to posting a response in quick succession. Indeed, I would prefer us to engage in long and thoughtful debate on this topic that could sometimes take a week or so between posts if needed.


I have no problem with that at all. In fact, I have learned that in these issues there has to be some kind of commonality between the two in dialogue, otherwise there develops a diplomatic papering over of differences that enlightens nobody, or the two are talking past each other and to their respective (or perspective potential) audiences.

I will be positing, in contra-distinction from your position, my position which advocates for private property and natural hierarchies along monarchal and aristocratic lines as being more consistent with the spirit of Christianity. I will also be arguing about the significance of War and expansion and how such is likewise not inconsistent with Christianity or Christian morality. I want this to be an intellectual discussion where we can discuss the Scriptures, the teachings of the Fathers, the history of states, as well as influences; whether they be Marx, Spengler, Freud, Dostoevsky, Calvin, Von Mises, or Lenin.


That's great, although I might add that I do not by any means abolish Hierarchy in it's natural or supernatural sense. I'll probably have to explain that one, but i''ll just say for now that I do not believe in meritocracy as such, nor do I abolish the traditional family and the hierarchical structure there. My conception of Christian Communism is embedded in a framework that is Orthodox Christian, and the Communism is balanced as a ''Leaven'' that permeates society and holds it together, but for all it's integral and even necessary role is just part of the whole continuum of Christian and civilized existence. I'm neither Utopian nor Secularist in my approach to Communism. As to war, again this is something that I as a Communist understand fully that it must be, for now. After all, I am a fan of the Soviet Red Army:-). I will also add, that there is an Apocalyptic and Eschatological dimension to this discussion as well.

I am Authoritarian and support the Dictatorship of the Proletariat for certain reasons. These reasons perhaps overlap with Secular Communism, but I believe have a dimension which is lacking in Secular Communism that can be filled with Christian example from history regarding the Temporal Government.

If you are interested in this conversation please let me know. I would like your commitment before I start to engage. I envision something I can get to once a week with a glass of wine and books on table.


Sounds good, I'll be happy to have this exchange, now that perhaps you understand i'm not ''chained'' to the historical secular Communists, nor am I some kind of anti-religious or anti-nationalist Communist either.

I am looking forward to seeing if you accept this challenge, among gentlemen of the True Faith.

Thanks, and Blessings.


Absolutely! And thank you, God bless

My suggestion is that we each open with brief statements, followed by the exchange. The form of my thesis if you will, will begin with statements of quotes from the Scripture and the Fathers, and then historical considerations.
#14893170
@annatar1914,

Well, I am pleased you accept this challenge and I am looking forward to the discussion.

If you are up to the task, I would prefer for you to begin with an good presentation of your position and then I will post mine, and then we can both make posts for clarification questions or questions in general (not necessarily a cross examination per se), and then answer those questions in separate posts and then we can let it be free-flowing from there unless you would like an official "terminus," wherein we can be more formal with the structure.

Thus, for starting this conversation, I suggest the following format, after which the conversation may be free-flowing until we decide to add a second format to officially end the conversation:

1. You present your position in a semi-comprehensive and organized nature. For easy reading, please divide into numbered sections.

2. I will then present my position after the same manner.

3. You will ask questions by way of clarification.

4. I will answer these questions by way of clarification and then ask my own.

5. You will answer these questions and then begin you "rebuttal," etc.

6. I will post my rebuttal...

and so on and so forth we shall go.

Here is my suggested presentation structure (Generally speaking) for our first posts where we present our positions in a comprehensive manner:

I. Metaphysical and Theological Foundations.
II. The General Structure of Our Ideal Society.
III. A Defense of This General Structure.
IV. Considerations Regarding The Family.
V. Considerations Regarding Economics and Property.
VI. Considerations Pertaining To Matters of Legal Rights.
VII. Considerations Regarding Law and Justice.
VIII. Considerations Regarding Foreign Trade and Warfare.
IX. Answers To Potential Objections.
X. Concluding Thoughts On The "Spirit" Of Such A Society; Existential or Personal Reasons (will be a good place to discuss eschatological vantage points as well, etc.).

This does not have to be followed rigidly, but I think these subdivisions would be helpful.

Let me know your thoughts, or feel free to begin.

-VS.
#14893243
Hello Victoribus S,

I accept your challenge to this debate or dialogue or what have you, I think that it will be a good thing. I also accept the format as suggested by you in the form which you've laid out, seems like a good structure to set this up.

Today, is not likely to be a good time for me to begin, probably either tomorrow morning or later evening I will be able to post something.

May Almighty God enlighten our hearts and minds, and show us the way in which we should go to follow His path in these matters and indeed all things, Unoriginate Father, Only begotten Son, and Life-Giving Holy Spirit, Amen.
#14894211
Hello Victoribus, I'm a bit late but here is my beginning, the opening salvo;

I. Theological and Metaphysical justifications for a Christian and Communist Society, Section A

I'm going to begin with the Beginning, that is, the very words of Our Lord, then 'outward' so to speak. I'm struck by this verse;

Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


It came to my mind; 'how does one do God's Will 'on earth as it is in heaven', how do we ensure that everyone is fed, everyone is clothed, everyone is free from the roots of criminal behavior as much as possible, how do we ensure health care for everyone? For all our brothers, even the least of them?

Communism.

And then there's the ''cost'' of discipleship, from Mark 10:21;

Mark 10:21 New International Version (NIV)

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Oh, Our Lord has plenty to say on these matters, as I will show. These, more than anything else, are the hard sayings of Jesus Christ.

More to come.
#14895833
Victoribus my friend!

I thought that with work I'd have more time to engage in a structured dialogue/debate with you, but unfortunately perhaps I need to start in a more free form manner. This is, a set of reflections on my being a Christian and a Communist.

Therefore, I will begin again this discussion with your in a more relaxed and informal, intimate way. Soul to soul. I think it was John Lukacs that said something along the lines of Anti-Communism being a phenomena that has not been sufficiently examined as a thing in itself, and I believe that he is right. You are perhaps 30 years old, while I am almost 49 now, all my formative years were filled with the presence of Communism in the World during the Cold War and It's end, while your formative years were afterwards. Both Communists and Anti-Communists after 1989-1991 are generally profoundly different in Kind than such as I.

By the time I knew what Communism truly was, getting past all the rhetoric and propaganda on both sides, it was collapsing, and Capitalism triumphed everywhere. I discovered that I believed in Communism, except this one monstrous deformity, like a mangled eye or goiter... The radical Atheism and even Antitheistic nature of it's historical leadership for the most part. That's one huge font of Anti-Communism right there. So many over the years, so many voices saying that their opposition was the Atheism, and the mass slaughters (which I think are greatly exaggerated and misapplied in some places and times to Communists, but indeed, Revolutions are cruel...). Even fewer endorsed the criticisms of Communism by the Capitalists, and I've seen the rebuttals of these critiques all the same.

But...But... But...''I'm an American, isn't Communism subversive? I'm a patriot!'' ''I'm a Christian!''

As if good ideas have borders, spiritual truths stop at frontiers... And as if the Truth of the American Revolution stopped in 1789, or 1860. You're damn right I'm an American, and an Orthodox Christian. How are men free if they're subject to theft, to exploitation of their labors and manipulation by the owners of the means of production in a society? Is that right? Is that Christian?

Damn it, I thought, Christians worthy of His Name, faithful to the Apostolic Teaching (the same teaching which included ''having all in common''). All this I have pretty much written before, but it relates directly to what I'm seeing and feeling right now.

As I see the ruins of the former Soviet Union, ruled over by crooks (for the most part). Yugoslavia divided and crushed, the FSU divided and crushed. the PRC reduced to being the very Engine of the world Capitalist System. All the Communist countries gone (North Korea hasn't been Commie since the 60's, really). Doing the right thing without God doesn't seem to work.

Capitalism and Consumerism, hedonism and poverty, reign supreme in the world. Oligarchs and Gangsters rule almost everything everywhere, and pride themselves with their triumph over the Boogeyman, Communism. And yet... They're still afraid, even of Ghosts, of not even Shadows, but the shadows of shadows. Extend NATO further.... Encircle China... Make even the Compredor elites who rule the Post-Communist states as resource colonies of International Capitalism, and everyone who has the slightest pro-Communist fond memory, the Enemy too. Glorify your wealth, you Rich, now's the only time you can...

Start being assholes to the working man even more, you Rich, you Exploiters who grind the face of the Poor Man, now that the threat is gone, nobody to tempt him to dream of a better life or save him, except maybe the Lord of Hosts Himself, for the defrauding of their wages cries out to Heaven for Justice. His Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven...

I watched Capitalism drop the Mask after the fall of the Soviet Union, and show itself to be everything the Socialists and Communists, and the early Church Fathers and other honest Clergy and men of God, say It would be. I didn't have to pick up Marx or Lenin, I picked up my Bible, my sermons of St. John Crysostom on Lazarus and the Rich man. After 1991, It gradually dawned on me. But I'm just a man, who lives in the world and pays bills and has a family. True... Slavery existed for thousands of years, good men even praised it. Slaves revolted, and slaves ran away. Things gradually developed, so that governments were moved in Christian nations to remedy this social evil, after a critical mass was reached and enough people saw it as a social evil. Sometimes it took a war, and force, from the Barbary Pirates to the American Civil War.

So by all means let's have this conversation, Victoribus Spoila, and perhaps others. I'm just one man, not the smartest or the most courageous, and i'm a sinner too. But I have to silence this inner cry of pain within me, like we had our last chance to avoid Barbarism in 1991, and we missed it.
#14898923
Bears repeating, unto the end of the world;


You are not making a gift of your possession to the poor person. You are handing over to him what is his.
Ambrose of Milan, 340-397.

The property of the wealthy holds them in chains . . . which shackle their courage and choke their faith and hamper their judgment and throttle their souls. They think of themselves as owners, whereas it is they rather who are owned: enslaved as they are to their own property, they are not the masters of their money but its slaves.
Cyprian, 300 A.D.

The bread in your cupboard belongs to the hungry man; the coat hanging in your closet belongs to the man who needs it; the shoes rotting in your closet belong to the man who has no shoes; the money which you put into the bank belongs to the poor. You do wrong to everyone you could help but fail to help.
Basil of Caesarea, 330-370 A.D.

Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours but theirs.

John Chrysostom, 347-407 AD

Instead of the tithes which the law commanded, the Lord said to divide everything we have with the poor. And he said to love not only our neighbors but also our enemies, and to be givers and sharers not only with the good but also to be liberal givers toward those who take away our possessions.

Irenaeus, 130-200 AD

The rich are in possession of the goods of the poor, even if they have acquired them honestly or inherited them legally.
John Chrysostom, 347-407

Share everything with your brother. Do not say, “It is private property.” If you share what is everlasting, you should be that much more willing to share things which do not last.
The Didache

Let the strong take care of the weak; let the weak respect the strong. Let the rich man minister to the poor man; let the poor man give thanks to God that he gave him one through whom his need might be satisfied.
Clement of Rome, 1st Century

Christians love one another. They do not overlook the widow, and they save the orphan. The one who has ministers ungrudgingly to the one who does not have. When they see a stranger, they take him under their own roof and rejoice over him as a true brother, for they do not call themselves brothers according to the flesh but according to the soul.
Aristides, early 2nd century

How can I make you realize the misery of the poor? How can I make you understand that your wealth comes from their weeping?
Basil of Caesarea, 330-370 A.D.

When you are weary of praying and do not receive, consider how often you have heard a poor man calling, and have not listened to him.
John Chrysostom, 347-407



How different today's world is from these truths! But just as with Slavery, Capitalism will meet with it's demise sooner or later, once enough people at the right place and time have the consciousness of fulfilling ALL the Gospel, including the Gospel to the Poor.
#14899580
It was a scandal with me, still is to a degree, to think of myself as a Communist and place myself in the company of bad men, men who persecuted the religious most fiercely. Atheists, ''God Fighters'' as we Orthodox Christians call them. Men who murdered many priests and good faithful Christians

But then, where's the sense of scandal when ''bad men'' were trying to do more in this world for the very ideals of yes, Christian justice, than the ''good Christians'' are? Bolshevism, a Christian Heresy.

Of course, things don't turn out too well when the Foundations of a revolution are bad in part, wrong from the beginning. But I can't help but look at the example of all those pious Orthodox Christians who rallied to the Red Banner during the ''Intervention War'' of the 1918-1920 (the ''Russian Civil War''/Soviet-Polish war) period and again in 1941-1945. And all those in the Donbass in the now Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic, faithful Orthodox Christians, ideological Soviet Communists. They know and understand what I'm thinking and feeling, they are thinking and feeling this way too. I heard of old women placing red roses on Lenin's statue, crossing themselves and bowing, and walking a matter of meters away and going into Church to pray. Good Christian women... Ulyanov needs their prayers, and they love what he did overall even though he was a God-Fighter. This is not Anglo-Saxon and Western ''morality'' that holds sway through much of the world today, but Love and Reconciliation and humble prayer over hatred and unforgiveness, of judgement of the external without knowing the heart or it's complicated struggles...

Is this the spiritual revolution that was missing before, that could transform the world now? Is this the reason for the fear and the hatred coming from reactionaries and fascists and world Capitalism and Imperialism today, with Communism basically a mere Spectre that still manages to haunt them? I am permitted at least to wonder. Revolution meets reality and over time conforms with it, until the contradictions formed by human resistance overwhelm the Revolution. But if it is the Will of God, it will return in a stronger and better form, and nothing will be able to stop it. Like the American Civil War song, the Battle Hymn of the Republic says; ''His Truth is marching on!'' To ''Destroy the works of the Devil'', Sin and Slavery, all forms of sin and slavery...
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