[Dagoth Ur]

Why exactly?

Why does it happen? Who knows. What is important is that all existence is a progressive stack of events which define its current state. The "test" is simply continuing to exist as far as it matters in this material realm.

And I note you haven't answered my question about what insults.

No I told you I wouldn't engage in your feigned ignorance. Go peddle your amateur tricks elsewhere.

[Besoeker]

And I note you haven't answered my question about what insults.

No I told you I wouldn't engage in your feigned ignorance. Go peddle your amateur tricks elsewhere.

So you make a vile accusation that you can't support????
Yet you call me an amateur???


And no one has yet given a direct answer about the purpose of testing.

[Besoeker]

I like how Besoeker thinks that his testing question is a gotcha. lol literally no two humans behave the exact same way. Any product made by man like that would be thoroughly tested.

Which completely misses the point that, if god is the creator, it isn't a product made by man.

[Dagoth Ur]

Which is meaningful how exactly?

[Besoeker]

Which is meaningful how exactly?

Any product made by man like that would be thoroughly tested.

Your point.

If you believe that god is the creator then it's not about testing a product made by man, is it?
In which case your point was pointless.

[anasawad]

Abu rashid means the father of rashid. You insulted his son thus insulted hem.

There are tons of answers to the question of why testing. Or why creation to begin with. It can be explained by human level philosophy. The core of this is while you have signs telling you there has to be a god and he's speaking to us and testing us are plenty. And the signs there is no god are also many. And thats why its called faith .

Now what is the point of testing for god. Think of it this way. If one can name and memorise the names of all stars and planets and what ever in the universe. Then he would still not be able to reach the level of wizdom that of god thus still wont comprehend it. But on very basic life example. Qhat abu rashid said about testing a program explains it very well.since we are the case of free well.

[Besoeker]

Abu rashid means the father of rashid. You insulted his son thus insulted hem.

Where did I do that?
Care to cite the post(s)?

[Dagoth Ur]

@B: The fuck are you on about m8? Even for the omnipotent the only way to see something is for it to occur at some point.

EDIT:
Do you not understand the concept of analogy? Especially the type where you clarify an abstract concept by relating it to a relatable physical process?

[Besoeker]

@B: The fuck are you on about m8? Even for the omnipotent the only way to see something is for it to occur at some point.

You're not a mathematician then.
You claimed that god is infinite a few posts back then mention some point. These are not compatible. Infinite means ALL points.

[Besoeker]

Say what you wish in abuse of me, for my silence towards the idiot is indeed an answer. I am not at a loss for a response but rather, It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs. - Imam Ash-Shafi'i (Rahimahullah).

If that's to me, I did not once abuse you.

[Besoeker]

@B: The fuck are you on about m8? Even for the omnipotent the only way to see something is for it to occur at some point.

EDIT:
Do you not understand the concept of analogy? Especially the type where you clarify an abstract concept by relating it to a relatable physical process?

Yes. I provided one.

[anasawad]

Ok.think pf it this way. When something moves at infinite velocity time effect goes infinetly small or better say 0. So when something is moving at infinite velocity it doesnt experience time. Now considering relativety in time. A small effect would cause two observers to detect the same event differently. Each by his own reference. So at infinite velocity you're outside the effect of time and so you can see all the references of an event. Which include past. Present and future.now this is impossible for anything in the universe but god is infinite so it is for god. Thus god sees the past. The present and the future of every event so god is all knowing. All while still we do have free well because we're doing the event. Simply we view it from our reference all while god sees all references .
This is by the way related to flat spacetime in which past.present and future occur at the same time.

[Besoeker]

Ok.think pf it this way. When something moves at infinite velocity time effect goes infinetly small or better say 0. So when something is moving at infinite velocity it doesnt experience time. Now considering relativety in time. A small effect would cause two observers to detect the same event differently. Each by his own reference. So at infinite velocity you're outside the effect of time and so you can see all the references of an event. Which include past. Present and future.now this is impossible for anything in the universe but god is infinite so it is for god. Thus god sees the past. The present and the future of every event so god is all knowing. All while still we do have free well because we're doing the event. Simply we view it from our reference all while god sees all references .
This is by the way related to flat spacetime in which past.present and future occur at the same time.

For me, the idea of free will and an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and infinite god don't fit well together. If god exists and is omniscient and infinite he would know what we are going to do and when. Past, present and future as you say. So how free is free will?

So we are back to the testing. If it is all known what is the point of testing?
Yet, no one seems to able to come up with a direct and succinct answer.

At least your response was polite and I thank you for that.

[Dagoth Ur]

With or without God free will is an illusion. You will make the decisions you make in the conditions you make them because you really didn't have other possible options (and if you went back to that exact state again you would do it over and over and over and over). Islam explicitly states that God makes people into Muslims and keeps people from being Muslims, that God knows every good/sin you will ever commit at birth. That "free will" is a matter of feeling good about a world that you basically are powerless against, much like the hope that faith gives people.

You contend that somehow God could still know what you would do, even if you never did it. You completely refuse to understand that omniscience through fluid time requires that all things seen must occur. Otherwise you cannot see them in the future because they didn't ever happen.

Again the "test" is for you. Because without the test you wouldn't exist. I've told you this repeatedly, you just don't like the answer that has been given.

You're not a mathematician then.

And you define infinity as including nothing. Which is fully nonsensical. What doesn't ever happen is not part of infinity. Like the number B.

The only way to know where it appears in the set is for the set to exist for it to occur within.

You claimed that god is infinite a few posts back then mention some point.

God, as She is defined in Abrahamic religions, cannot be anything less than Infinite. Faith is only a claim of personal belief.

These are not compatible. Infinite means ALL points.

God is Infinite. Material Existence apparently is not according to all existing data.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Islam explicitly states that God makes people into Muslims and keeps people from being Muslims God knows every good/sin you will ever commit at birth.

hah Judaism states the same thing

God, as She is defined in Abrahamic religions

actually according to the Abrahamic religions (or atleast Judaism) god is neither a male or a famale



anyway all religions people from diffrent religions have similar arguments its funny

[Dagoth Ur]

Yeah that's why I get to use whatever pronoun I want.

[Besoeker]

With or without God free will is an illusion.

I disagree. If god exists and he/she/it is omnisicient and infinite then there would be no surprises. He would know that I shall have another glass of Merlot

You contend that somehow God could still know what you would do, even if you never did it.

God, if omniscient and infinite, already knows.

Again the "test" is for you. Because without the test you wouldn't exist. I've told you this repeatedly

Care to cite where you have done so?

You're not a mathematician then.

And you define infinity as including nothing. Which is fully nonsensical. What doesn't ever happen is not part of infinity. Like the number B.

It isn't my definition. It is simply used to express a quantity that cannot be defined in finite terms. Like Tan pi/2.

You claimed that god is infinite a few posts back then mention some point.

God, as She is defined in Abrahamic religions, cannot be anything less than Infinite. Faith is only a claim of personal belief. [/quote]
With no better basis than a claim of personal belief in the FSM.

These are not compatible. Infinite means ALL points.

God is Infinite. Material Existence apparently is not according to all existing data.

I have never thought of my material existence as anything other than finite and, I suspect that I'm closer to that end than you are.

Have you read Death the Leveller by James Shirley?

[anasawad]

Ok. To be sble to give better answers can someone tell the meaning of the 3 words you describe god with because i dont have access to translattor currently. And basing my posts on infinite and knows everything.

[Besoeker]

If that was addressed to me:
Infinite - without limits. Something that can't be expressed in finite terms.
Omniscient - knows everything, again, without limits or boundaries.
Omnipotent - all powerful again, without limits or boundaries.
Omnipresent - existing everwhere again, without limits or boundaries.

Do they describe god?
Not for me but then I'm an atheist.

[anasawad]

Hmm. Ok .sure.but for the omnipresent part. Its a common misunderstanding among people within islam. God isnt everywhere. Basically god sees everywhere but doesnt exist everywhere.