[Frollein]

Well. Again. This is simply blame throwing. Why ?

I blamed nobody, least of all your god, because I don't believe he exists. Why would I blame a mental construct?

As i said earlier. God gave us the ability, the material and the method to solve all our problems.

Obviously, a three year old child has neither the ability, nor the material or method to solve her problems. That sentence of yours implies that she chose to sit in a trash bag in her own shit.

Then obviously problems will happen. Not becuasegod failed. No . Because we failed to solve the problems.

Yes, the parents obviously failed. Perhaps child services failed, because they are - contrary to your god - neither omnipresent, nor omniscient, so perhaps that case went under their radar. But one person who was obviously not at fault was that little girl, yet she had to go through the horrific abuse, with an omnipresent god being there all the time, an omniscient god knowing what was going on and knowing beforehand what would happen, given that he knew (omniscient) of the parents' depravity, and an omnipotent god doing nothing to interfere with the abuse - because that would supposedly spoil the test.

Not because god failed. No.

Tell you what: your god didn't fail because he doesn't exist. If he did exist, that above scenario would then apply, in which case he wouldn't be a god that anyone should grace with a second of thought, a word of prayer, or an ounce of sacrifice.

Now god can stop it from happening and knew full well its happening. But how could humanity be tested if everytime something happeneds god will interfere and solve it.

So if I see someone assaulting the old granny on the street, I'll go my merry way and do nothing, because if I interfere and solve the problem, then the attacker wasn't tested. No? If I and every decent human being would interfere to stop a crime from happening, I would apply the same standard to a supposedly all-benign being. A god who doesn't interfere at all is as useless as if he didn't exist.

Why will there be punishment and reward god will do all the work for us.

And I don't believe in a punishment/reward system in some unproven afterlife. Even if it existed, I wouldn't want to be rewarded by a creep who put me through hell while I was alive. I'd tell him to stick his reward where the sun doesn't shine.

If we expect god to do everything for us and us not doing anything whats the difference between us and some pet animals ?

Since the difference between us and some animals is our intellect, how about not wasting his and our time with these S/M games and use it constructively? If god was interested in us simply exploring and caring for his creation, he could just have constructed us differently, with a different hormonal and instinctual setup. After all, he's omnipotent, right?

And when we disobey his orders. In this life it is benificial forsome of us. Although harmful to others but we simply dont care. And thats not god's fault. Thats our fault.

What about natural disasters? Did America get hurricane Katrina because the gays were getting too uppity?

And btw. No. There are some people who dont get pnuished or trialled by god which includes kids.

That three year old would disagree with you - if she wasn't so traumatized that she's mute.

[anasawad]

1- no one siad anything about not interfering from us. I said that its our fault for not interfering.
2- no its not the kid's fault. But it is however our fault as a society for allowing such things to grow and extend within us. Whether you believe in god or not. Crime is still a result of social disfunction and it is still the fault of society to allow to grow and empower it in many places.
3-whether you want to believe in god or not or in hem testing us or not. What happened to the child and ro million others is still our fault. Because we're producing the conditions to make these things happen and we dont give a shit about aolving it or protecting the people.
4-for the case in hand. Sure. The government failed. The parents failed. What about the entire society? Were they all blind ? No one could see something was wrong .? No one decided lets interfere ? No. You know why. Because no one wants to or care enough to do so. Whether you believe god existed or not. Whther he was testing us or not. We still have the ability. The materials. And the methods to solve everything. We simply dont. Whether there was a test or not. We are still failing. And horrobly proud about it.
If not failing god's test. Then we're failing our selves and our existence to live up to it.
5- why do we need to be constructed differently. We are the ultimate perfection. We can be the best of the best or the worse of the worse. And whether god exists or not. We're still choosing wrong.
6-for natural disasters. Sure. If i want to refer to god's words. When the good and the nad lives together. The bad getting more and the good doing nothing. When god punishment comes. The bad will suffer for what they are and the good will suffer for not doing enough to help the situation. And even if we were to talk outside of religion and on all world events scales. Bad and evil people are getting more powerful. No one is even trying to stop them. And everyone is suffering because of that.
Whether you like it or not. Even if you dont believe in god. That does not mean we as humanity didnt fail. And that does not mean what happening in the world and the suffering is not our fault. No be very sure it is.
And even crime as horroble as it is is still the fault of society for allowing the conditions for it to happen.

[Besoeker]

And even crime as horroble as it is is still the fault of society for allowing the conditions for it to happen.

But god, if omnipotent, allows it to happen.

[anasawad]

Because god handed us the responsibility and the means to stop it snd repair it and that is our test.
God trusted us with our own lives. And we're failing.

[Besoeker]

Because god handed us the responsibility and the means to stop it snd repair it and that is our test.
God trusted us with our own lives. And we're failing.

Wouldn't an omniscient god have known that would happen?

[anasawad]

He would know that we will fail once we decide to go the wrong way and fail. He told us what would happen of we failed. Why we shouldnt fail . And whats the punishment of we did.
Thats the idea of free will. God does know everything. But our failure doesnt exist before we decide it.

[Besoeker]

He would know that we will fail once we decide to go the wrong way and fail.

It's the same question don't you see?
If omniscient, wouldn't he have already known that we would have gone the wrong way?

[anasawad]

No. Because god distinguished us to be the only creatures to have full free will. Meaning we can be anything.
This is the whole idea of the test. He created us with free will and tests us if we follow or not.
When we make the decision then it is.
And ofcourse now we're going to go back to the point i made sometime ago here. About the references and time. And how god can know everything even the future yet we have free will. And the cycle to go sgain.
But let me sdd something this time. The time line begins when we're in existence. Not before.

[Besoeker]

No. Because god distinguished us to be the only creatures to have full free will.

Dogs don't have free will?? My dog will run after anything moving. If free to do so.

Meaning we can be anything.
This is the whole idea of the test. He created us with free will and tests us if we follow or not.

If omniscient, he would already know so there would be no point in a test. If he doesn't know, he is not omniscient.
You can't have it both ways.

[Frollein]

So everybody failed except the guy who set up the conditions in the first place?

And you still didn't answer the question of what the little girl was tested for.

[Besoeker]

So everybody failed except the guy who set up the conditions in the first place?

And you still didn't answer the question of what the little girl was tested for.

Direct answers seem to be conspicuous by their absence here.

[anasawad]

Ok. Lets explain it in much simpler way.
If yiu are at your final exams. The teacher wh o is also the examiner taught you everything about the subject is giving you your finalexam. But you did not study . So you fail. Its not the teachers failt. Its yours.
Bit in the middle of the exam you decide to try to copy the guy next to you. But caught. The teacher assumes its both of you. But the other student explains the situation. He completes his test and gets what he deserves while you fail and get the consequence.

Kids are not tested . Only their actions when they're older counts. So if their life ends before adulthood. They dont get trialed and directly to heaven. How ever. Those kids might have suffer injustoce or crime from someone like the girl in this case. Thus when their trial comes . Theyll be trialed also by her for her rights and only pass if she forgives them.
Did she do wrong ? No. Was she damaged ? Yes. Was it by god or us? Us. Will god serve each justice for it? Yes.

-besoeker.
Animals are driven by basic instinct. We do see some smart behaviours from them but it is actually instinct. Thus they're driven by their preset instinct.

How is god all knowing. I will repeat in more details.
According to einstien special relativaty and further researches. The flow of time depends on motion. The faster you move the less time effects you. When simething move at the speed of light. Time stops for it. When an object moves above the speed of light. Spa etime for it does not apply anymore thus it turns to an outside observer. Like singularities. Lets imagen an x and y axes. Events are lined up on the x axes and time is the y axis. Since we move very slow then we percieve events to happen each on its own. Basically we think of our life as a timeline of events which is the x axis and move along it. But for an outside observer. Events all together happen at the same time. As they're moving vertically on the y axis not horizantly on the x axis. So past. Present. Future happen at the same time.
Our awarness tells us its gradual . But its not. So in each of those events . Its us doing it and choosing it. But our awarness allows us to see it one at a time due to relativety rules.
So god is an outside observer and sees it all at once so god knows everything. What youre mistaken at is that you assume that god can predict his own decision and what he might decide. That is basically assuming that god is a being like us. But he isnt . He is the creator of the system not part of it. So when he decided something . Like giving a soul/life. This life becomes to have its own events.but if he did not decide it yet then it didnt happen. Doesnt happen. Nor it will happen.
Because god is not a part of the system thus god doea not have a line of events. When you assume that god does have a line of events then god was created and not hemself a creator. Which contradicts the entire idea. You say you cant have it both ways. Butits not 2 ways . Its one way and consistant you simply basing your idea on wrong principle.
ANd i gave you both very direct answers. Your lack of understanding is not my responsibility.

[Besoeker]

You made my point. Thank you.

[anasawad]

And how did i make your point ? Was your point that you have no idea what you're talking about??
You're entire talk is based on that god can predict his own self. Which inclines god has a timeline of events and thus is not god. Your whole concept of debating is wrong. As simple ad that.

[Besoeker]

And how did i make your point ? Was your point that you have no idea what you're talking about??

My point was that you don't give direct answers to direct questions. Waffling on about relativity isn't an answer.
And make assertions that you can't support.

[Besoeker]

So everybody failed except the guy who set up the conditions in the first place?

And you still didn't answer the question of what the little girl was tested for.

Too young to be tested. Evidently.

[anasawad]

Oh trust me if i want to go around talking about relativety and this topic in full details ll be eritting a dozen pages here. Thats the simplest answer youll get when you ask about a very large topic.
I dont need to source scientific principles that existed for decades now necause you can nother and go to a library and read.

You wanted to know how god is all knowing. With scientific bades. Thsts the simplest and shortest answer anyone could give.
Unless you want me to say. He just is and thsts the end of it.
If you dont want big answers. Dont ask big questions.

Abd yes. Too young. God said very clearly. Kids who die go directly to heaven. Every muslim on earth knows that you are never held reapononsible infront of god for when you were not an adult.

[Besoeker]

Oh trust me if i want to go around talking about relativety and this topic in full details ll be eritting a dozen pages here. Thats the simplest answer youll get when you ask about a very large topic.
I dont need to source scientific principles that existed for decades now necause you can nother and go to a library and read.

You wanted to know how god is all knowing. With scientific bades. Thsts the simplest and shortest answer anyone could give.
Unless you want me to say. He just is and thsts the end of it.
If you dont want big answers. Dont ask big questions.

Abd yes. Too young. God said very clearly. Kids who die go directly to heaven. Every muslim on earth knows that you are never held reapononsible infront of god for when you were not an adult.

OK.
How young is too young?

[Besoeker]

You wanted to know how god is all knowing. With scientific bades.

No, I didn't.
My point was that either he is omniscient or he is not.
You hedged your bets on that.

[anasawad]

Anything before adulthood. And no teenaging years are not in ot. Once you reach puberty . You're an adult thus accounted for your actions .
And you asked specifically how and on what m basing it .
Thus this.