Jewish vs Christian God - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By MB.
#1755985
Can someone possibly elaborate on the theological differences between the Jewish and Christian God?
By Vigil of Reason
#1755994
They are technically the same thing, according to the Bible.

"Jewish" God:
Created everything.
Humans start to sin.
Sin separates human from God - causes Hell.
Humans need to abide strictly by law to not sin.

"Christian" God:
Created everything.
Humans start to sin.
Sin separates human from God - causes Hell.
Humans need to abide strictly by law to not sin.
Sent begotten Son to humans.
Sinless Son is sacrificed.
Humans are able to save themselves from sin through Son form of God.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756013
Christianity originated as a sect of Judaism, therefore the Christian God is the same God as the Jewish God.

Incidentally, Allah is also the same God as the Judeo-Christian God.
User avatar
By Andres
#1756141
Christianity originated as a sect of Judaism, therefore the Christian God is the same God as the Jewish God.
The latter does not follow from the former. At least from the point of view of theology, which is the subject of this thread, they are different. One being a trinity and the other not.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756173
Many Christian denominations do not believe in the concept of the Trinity. And besides, having a different interpretation of the same God is not equivalent to worshipping a different God.
User avatar
By Dan
#1756213
The Christian God is the Jewish God, with the addition of a Trinitarian view of one God being the Father, the Son, and the Spirit in three aspects.
User avatar
By Andres
#1756224
Potemkin wrote:Many Christian denominations do not believe in the concept of the Trinity. And besides, having a different interpretation of the same God is not equivalent to worshipping a different God.
But the OP is specifically asking for the theological differences of the two concepts. Whether metaphysically you would consider them the same entity does not address that question. With respect to your first point it only becomes relevant if you become specific in your response to the OP then. The largest self-described Christian denominations, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, most Protestants, profess a Trinity, and even the Mormons, which I think might be the largest self-described christian denomination, which depart significantly from the Nicene creed, profess a different concept of God than orthodox or reform Judaism. When answering the question of the OP then, it would be important to respond to that which the overwhelming majority of self-described christians believe in.

Dan's response at least admits that theologically they diverge, even if he is succinct to a fault.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756453
Christians claim that God has three aspects, not that there is more than one God. Christians are (at least in theory) strict monotheists.
User avatar
By noemon
#1756690
Extracts from academic journals in pdf format:

Homoousios, a fundamental departure of Christian doctrine in the Nicene Creed from Judaic theology.

Paul's departure from Judaism to Hellenism, eschatology is largely reduced as it fails to appeal, though not utterly removed.

Hellenism and Christianity. (This contains more historical, than theological differences, though theological differences are also discussed).

Hellenism and Christian education juxtaposes late Christianity(post-Nicene), with early(.ie Judaic) Christianity.

The most obvious differences though, is sacred art, and saint worship, providing a polytheist pantheon for Christianity.
Last edited by noemon on 12 Jan 2009 00:13, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756703
The most obvious difference though, is sacred art, and saint worship, providing a polytheist pantheon for Christianity.

Christians do not worship saints, nor are saints regarded as divine beings. Christianity is a monotheistic religion which worships the same God whom the Jews worship.
User avatar
By noemon
#1756716
Read Intercession of saints and patron saint. If you fail to see all these revered Saints in churches, you probably havent been to many churches, cause even Anglican churches have a load of icons.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756724
Read Intercession of saints and patron saint.

I read it and I found this:

There is some evidence of a Jewish belief in intercession, both in the form of the paternal blessings passed down from Abraham to his children, and 2 Maccabees, where Judas Maccabaeus sees the dead Onias and Jeremiah giving blessing to the Jewish army. There are also opposing views in that to God alone only prayers may be offered.

In modern times one of the greatest divisions in Jewish theology (hashkafa) is over the issue of whether one can beseech the help of a tzadik - an extremely righteous individual. The main conflict is over a practice of beseeching a tzadik who has already died to make intercession before the Almighty. This practice is common mainly among Chasidic Jews, but also found in varying degrees among other usually Chareidi communities. It strongest opposition is found largely among sectors of Modern Orthodox Judaism, Dor Daim and Talmide haRambam, and among aspects of the Litvish Chareidi community. Those who oppose this practice usually do so over the problem of idolatry, as Jewish Law strictly prohibits making use of a mediator (melitz) or agent (sarsur) between oneself and the Almighty.

The perspectives of those Jewish groups opposed to the use of intercessors is usually softer in regard to beseeching the Almighty alone merely in the "merit" (skhut) of a tzadik.

Those Jews who support the use of intercessors claim that their beseeching of the tzadik is not prayer or worship. The conflict between the groups is essentially over what constitutes prayer, worship, a mediator (melitz), and an agent (sarsur).


If you fail to see all these revered Saints in churches, you probably havent been to many churches, cause even Anglican churches have a load of icons.

No they don't. Cromwell had them all removed and burnt.
User avatar
By noemon
#1756753
I saw the reference to Jewish practice as well, I didn't quote and comment on it, because it is pretty clear that it does not mean, that Christians do not worship saints or that Jews worship Saints like the Christians do, and if you find a Jewish saint in a synagogue, please take your time to photograph it, and post it. And the extract tells you that even this mere prayer practiced by a few Jews is strictly prohibited under Judaic law, in case you didnt notice.

I don't know about Cromwell, but i 've been to many Anglican churches in Cambridge, and there is an abundance of iconography, not found in synagogues. And that is a major difference between the 2. And any individual with a mere knowledge between the 2 is fully aware of.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#1756816
I don't know about Cromwell, but i 've been to many Anglican churches in Cambridge, and there is an abundance of iconography, not found in synagogues. And that is a major difference between the 2. And any individual with a mere knowledge between the 2 is fully aware of.

I read it and I found this:

WHY ARE ICONS SO NEW TO US IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH?

Following the Great Schism of 1054 C.E. the Western Church moved away from its previous liturgical practices and language because of the native languages spoken. Eventually, this part of the Church would adopt Latin as its universal liturgical language and the Italian Romance art forms took over from the stark, flat dimensional form used in Byzantine art. As the influence of Raphael's painting techniques took prominence in the early 16th Century C.E., followed [sic] by Giotto, da Vinci, Michaelangelo and others, the Western Church sought realism and beautiful, poetic pictures. Following the division of the Roman Catholic Church, in the 16th Century C.E. into principally the Roman, Lutheran and Church of England branches the Episcopal Church grew from that split. Consequently, the prevalent art forms were continued in America and wherever the Anglican communion was established. It is only in, perhaps, the last 20 years or so that Western Christianity has returned to its religious "roots" and became interested in the use of icons. The Episcopal Church in the United States has been in the vanguard of this renaissance of the use of icons, with Rome lagging somewhat behind. Yet many Episcopalians today continue to think of icons as being "Roman Catholic" and therefore unsuited to our Churches.

Do you actually read the links you post? :eh:

there is an abundance of iconography, not found in synagogues

The synagogue has not always been the centre of Judaism. The synagogue became significant only after the Diaspora, when rabbinical Judaism became dominant after the destruction of the Temple.
User avatar
By noemon
#1756851
Potemkin wrote:Do you actually read the links you post? :eh:


It tells you that all of them today(including the Episcopal church) use iconography, and account also that both Catholicism and Orthodoxy(which make up the original Christian church of the Pentarchy, with 1 seat(Rome) for Catholics and the rest 4(Orthodox) and the largest by far Christian group) never broke that tradition, and that somehow means that Christians do not revere Saints? Because a few offshoots broke with iconographical tradition, never fully, only to return back? In which world dimension exactly of yours, does that support your argument?

Potemkin wrote:The synagogue has not always been the centre of Judaism. The synagogue became significant only after the Diaspora, when rabbinical Judaism became dominant after the destruction of the Temple.


OK, So? in case you are arguing that once upon time Jews did, but they no longer do, still does not equate the very real Sainthood tradition of the Christian church, with an allegedly obsolete Jewish one. And it precisely tells you, that there is a difference.
Last edited by noemon on 12 Jan 2009 01:45, edited 2 times in total.
By Vigil of Reason
#1757275
What someone says he believes is different from what he does. The theological God is not necessarily characterized by worship methods.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#1758146
Theologically the only major difference is the Trinity, as I understand it. The "personality traits", if one can call it that, of both are more or less identical, it's just the Jews reject the idea that Jesus was both the Messiah and God Himself.

Read Intercession of saints and patron saint. If you fail to see all these revered Saints in churches, you probably havent been to many churches, cause even Anglican churches have a load of icons.

"Reverence" and "Worship" are not the same thing. One is veneration, one is adoration.
User avatar
By Noelnada
#1758148
Jews reject the idea that Jesus was both the Messiah and God Himself


They reject the idea that Jesus was the Messiah. And the son of God.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#1758173
Uh....yeah. That's pretty much what I just said, isn't it?

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