[Political Interest]

Ever since the blasphemy of Paul who claimed that Prophet Jesus Christ(May the Peace and Blessings of Almighty God(May His name be Glorified and Exalted) Be Upon him) is God, the Christians and many of those who are neither Muslims, Christians or Jews all have wrongly viewed him as God. The truth that Jesus Christ(PBUH) is not God is found not only in Islam, it is also found in the very Bible from which the Christians preach!

Looking at the Christian Bible we see several instances in which Prophet Christ(PBUH) states clearly, true monotheism. In the New Testament we read Jesus Christ(PBUH) as saying, "I of my own self can do nothing". What does this mean? The implications of this verse from the Christian Bible is great indeed. First and foremost, if Christ(PBUH) were God and then claimed that he of his own self could do nothing, then how could he be said to be God? If he were God, then he of his own self could surely do everything. Further yet, if one is to then say "But he is referring to the Father and the Holy Spirit", then such a one is identifying three separate units of divinity. If one is to identify these as three separate units of divinity, it then breaches monotheism due to them saying "Jesus Christ(PBUH) is God, however so is his father and so is the Holy Spirit". Therefore by identifying three in one, the person is no longer identifying one but instead distinguishing between three. This violates logic. 1+1+1=3 not 1+1+1=1.

We also read in the Christian Bible that Jesus Christ(PBUH) is seen as praying to God. If the Prophet(PBUH) were to be praying to God and he is himself God, then to whom he is praying? Is he praying to himself? Surely not. Let us then suppose in the most outrageous of circumstances that he is, then what type of God is this? I have heard a Christian say when I asked him about this issue, "He was praying to his Father". If Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH) were praying to his father and not to himself, this is again a distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and hence identifying three separate directions of worship and therefore violating the monotheism which Christians claim they expound.

Another interesting point to note is that the majority of Christians also claim that Christ(PBUH) is also the son of God(May His Name be Glorified and Exalted). If Jesus Christ(PBUH) is to be the son of God(s.w.t.), then how is it possible for him to also be God? If a man came to your house and asked you "Is your son at home?", you will either reply "Yes, he is" or "No he is not". You would not say "No he is not here, but I am also him". If you did this the man would look at you like you are mad. Therefore how can one identify Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH) as the son of God and also God at the same time?

Remember that in the Christian Bible it is also recorded that Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH) said how many would do works in his name. Nevertheless, even though they would do this he made very clear that on the Day of Judgement he will say he never knew them. Why then do Christians open most of their services with "In the Name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit?" Worse yet, they will even say "In the name of Jesus Christ". In Islam we say "Bismillah Ah-Rahman Ah-Raheem", or "In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful". In identifying only God alone, not associating any partners in worship with Him, we are following what Jesus Christ(PBUH) is commanding according to the Christian Bible.

Dear Christians,

We the Muslims do not share many differences with you, rather we share many similarities. The God who we both worship is the same God. We believe in Jesus Christ(Peace Be Upon Him). We believe that he gave life to the dead, healed the blind the sick and the leppers all by the permission of God Almighty. We believe that he shall return to kill the anti-Christ and will then rule on earth with peace. We believe in the immaculate conception, something many Christians do not even believe today. We even accept him as the Messiah. All Muslims must love and accept Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH), otherwise this is blasphemy of the highest order. We will simply not accept Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH) as the son of God or as God.

For more information on this subject, please visit:

http://islamreligion.com

[Noelnada]

This violates logic.

Not more than the incarnations of the deities in Indhuism and so on. You can't argue logically with faith, you can argue logically with believers but don't expect to change their faith because of logic. There is not a standard universal rationality if you ask me. We probably can get close to it but...

But why i'm i even arguing, i do not believe that Jesus was God. I do not believe that him or Muhammad heard the voice of God or some angel. No, i believe that they were both highly inspired men, really close, for their time, to God ( my own version).

[Political Interest]

Not more than the incarnations of the deities in Indhuism and so on.

Sir, did I state that Hinduism was my creed?

You can't argue logically with faith, you can argue logically with believers but don't expect to change their faith because of logic. There is not a standard universal rationality if you ask me. We probably can get close to it but...

A great American Muslim missionary said that unlike with is previous religion, Christianity, which offered no proof and only faith, Islam offered proof and faith. There is solid proof for the truth of what is written in the Holy Qu'ran, scientifically, politically, socially and economically.

But why i'm i even arguing, i do not believe that Jesus was God. I do not believe that him or Muhammad heard the voice of God or some angel. No, i believe that they were both highly inspired men, really close, for their time, to God ( my own version).

My friend, you do not choose your own version of God. The nature of God is not something we as His creation can dictate or understand by our own reasoning alone. Only Islam provides us with the answers on the nature of God and that path which leads on the straight way. If we were all to have our own interpretations and opinions on what is the truth, how would we come to any agreement on anything? In philosophy we witness that no two philosophers will agree on the same issue, therefore what is to say your perception on the nature of God is the true one? Islam provides for us the answers.

[Noelnada]

There is solid proof for the truth of what is written in the Holy Qu'ran, scientifically, politically, socially and economically.

I have thoroughly examined the Qu'ran and found no solid proof and actually the Qu'ran is clear, believing is a matter of faith. So i assume that your judgement on this matter is blinded by your faith (i'm not saying it's bad).

If we were all to have our own interpretations and opinions on what is the truth, how would we come to any agreement on anything?

Hence all the different schools in Islam and in organized religions and conflicts between religious dignitary belonging to the same schools.

My friend, you do not choose your own version of God

I have chosen to believe that my own understanding was superior in some cases or at least complementary to the understanding of the common religious believer (whether jewish, christian, muslim, indhuist, taoist, buddhist). This faith i have in my own judgement is not something you can break with mere words. Because this faith is God's willing.

[Political Interest]

I have thoroughly examined the Qu'ran and found no solid proof and actually the Qu'ran is clear, believing is a matter of faith. So i assume that your judgement on this matter is blinded by your faith (i'm not saying it's bad).

Are you aware that during the time of the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w.), everyone believed the earth was flat? Even the Christian Church subscribed to this theory. The Holy Qu'ran tells us that the earth is shaped in an obloun fashion, similar to an egg. Scientists have today proven that the earth is not a complete sphere but indeed shaped more similarly to that of an oval or egg.

The Holy Qu'ran also details how the moon and sun move in orbid, creating day and night.

The Holy Qu'ran also speaks to us on clouds and the benefits of honey, all of which are proved to be scientifically true.

For in depth discussion and more scientific facts as found in the Holy Qu'ran, please read this book by Turkish Islamic writer, Harun Yahya:

http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_03.php

[Suska]

I don't care where you come from or what you were taught the standards of whats good and right can be intuited and thought needs watching from a place of truth - if you are a good man I'll be your brother and that matters much more than anything you can say about the status of Jesus as a God or Demi-god or whatever. That said, I have a learned distrust of Paul's church and I agree somewhat with what you suggest even though as I see it the status of the Christ is important and that emphasis on the Christ is what makes Christianity its own tradition and not another.

[Todd D.]

We believe in the immaculate conception, something many Christians do not even believe today.

I was under the impression that Islam does not believe in the concept of "Original Sin". How then can they believe that Mary was protected from it?

All Muslims must love and accept Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH), otherwise this is blasphemy of the highest order. We will simply not accept Prophet Jesus Christ(PBUH) as the son of God or as God.

Then Muslims do not accept Jesus Christ. Period.

[QatzelOk]

Then Muslims do not accept Jesus Christ. Period.

If accepting Jesus means accepting that he's "the son of God," then a lot of people won't accept him.

Why does he need to be part of the God family to work?

Can't we just consider him to be a prophet of antiquity with nice teachings for the people around him?

God having a son sounds really nepotistic and blasphemous on many levels. Did they ever play ball in the park? Who was his mom, Mother Nature?

Why personify God anymore than is absolutely necessary for human understanding? Too much personification can make the entire mythology unbelievable to sophisticated readers.

[Suska]

Why does he need to be part of the God family to work?

Qatz, the point isn't Jesus was a really neat guy. The point is more along the lines of God showing us he is in this with us and knows us in the way we know ourselves, from within the personal miseries and delights. If you brush past the symbolism here why not brush past it in everything and go straight to ignoring anything metaphoric, clearly the next time someone tells you its raining cats and dogs you ought to feel quite surprised and wonder how these animals got into the sky.

[peter_co]

Are you aware that during the time of the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w.), everyone believed the earth was flat?

That is utterly false. Even before 400BC the idea of a spherical Earth was widely accepted by Greek philosophers. And after Ptolemy elaborated his astronomical model (which included a Round Earth), his ideas became virtually universally accepted in educated circles with access to his works.

A great American Muslim missionary said that unlike with is previous religion, Christianity, which offered no proof and only faith, Islam offered proof and faith. There is solid proof for the truth of what is written in the Holy Qu'ran, scientifically, politically, socially and economically.

I'm sorry, but that is just religious jingoistic bs. The idea that you can demonstrate one religion to be "truer" than another on rational grounds is rather silly since religion is a matter of faith, but if one would perform a truly rigorous examination of various religions and their literal base texts, then he would be forced to abandon all of them. In any case, let's take that missionary's statement apart and see the solid proof of what is written in the Quran from the following aspects:
1) Politically: What exactly was the proof of the superiority of the theocratic style government advocated in the Quran? It's not that it didn't have its good moments, particularly during the Caliphate, but could not the same have been achieved with a civil government. In any case, when this idea has been implemented in recent times, it has not exactly had the best track record.
2) Socially: What is so optimal about completely subordinating women to men, prescribing barbaric punishments such as the cutting of limbs for even petty theft and stoning for adultery, or the traumatic abuse to which prebuscent girls may be subjected in marriage?
3) Economically: The interdiction on "usury" is one of the most important causes of the substandard performance of the economies of Muslim countries, due the key role that credit plays in a modern economy.
4) Scientifically: Here one could literally go on for days, but a few examples will suffice. For instance, according to the Quran stars are lamps used to scare the devils away:

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

The Sun rotates around the Earth:

Quran 21: 33 It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.

And Allah created humans out of clotted blood:

Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the Clot a little lump (foetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators. ( Bengali translated Quran said: “Zamaa’t Raokto theeke Manoosh banieesi” And this Ayat has been repeated again and again throughout the Quran ) Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…

Would it not have been easier to use totipotent stem cells than a mass of dead condensed cells?

I'm not saying that the Bible or other books have less of these flaws and errors, but the idea that the Quran can be seen as perfectly true and substantiated by scientific evidence is simply nonsense.

[Todd D.]

If accepting Jesus means accepting that he's "the son of God," then a lot of people won't accept him.

Yep, no argument there.

Can't we just consider him to be a prophet of antiquity with nice teachings for the people around him?

Because Jesus said that He was God, and did not rebuke those that said so to his face. Arguing that He was "a great moral teacher" or "Just a prophet" flies in the face of what HE HIMSELF taught.

From CS Lewis:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would be either a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

[Noelnada]

Because Jesus said that He was God

So you can actually travel through space and time or live much longer than normal human ?
( i don't really understand where you read that by the way)

[Todd D.]

So you can actually travel through space and time or live much longer than normal human ?

The hell? What are you talking about?

( i don't really understand where you read that by the way)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. - John 1:1-2

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am He,[a] you will indeed die in your sins." - John 8:24

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - John 8:58

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. - John 9:35-38

*I Am is a reference to God, see Exodus 3:14, Isaiah 43:10, etc.

There are plenty of passages where Jesus claims to be God, that is just a sample.

[Okonkwo]

There are plenty of passages where Jesus claims to be God

"The Father and I are one" - John 10:30

"I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

Aaah, catholic education...
However this interpretation of the trinity and denial of either Jesus' humanity or his divinity is disputed even within Christianity, it's (ironically) called Christology:

[Paradigm]

Because Jesus said that He was God, and did not rebuke those that said so to his face.

He also said:

Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?

[Noelnada]

Aaah, catholic education...

*falls asleep*

"The Father and I are one"

I interprete it as the expression of the oneness of everything. And my interpretation will prevail, by the nuclear sword if needed !

[Average Voter]

Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.'"

I doubt an impartial reader of the Bible would interpret the trinity out of it. The main evidence towards is it from the creeds.

[QatzelOk]

Jesus never wrote any of the texts you guys quoted, so to claim "he said such and such" is very weak.

It's more accurate to say the guys who wrote about Jesus (but never met him) said "he said he was God."

the next time someone tells you its raining cats and dogs...

I'm glad you brought up this expression, Suska. See, the narrative structure of metaphors requires that you relate a hard-to-understand concept to something much simpler. Someone unfamiliar with rain intensity measures can clearly understand the volume of rain if the drops are as large as domestic animals.

But to claim that "those are dogs and cats out there in the sky" would be naive. Right?

Likewise, "son of God" is a narrative device that is supposed to help the reader understand the relationship of man and nature. To have people running around screaming "son of God!" as if the family relationship was anything except a device to help simple people understand a daunting concept... it just saddens me that texts are treated to this kind of abuse by well-meaning simpletons who are often armed.

[Average Voter]

Jesus never wrote any of the texts you guys quoted, so to claim "he said such and such" is very weak.

It's more accurate to say the guys who wrote about Jesus (but never met him) said "he said he was God."

The original post leads us to a question based on a fixed set of conditions which asks, if we suppose the Bible is true, what are it's implications with regards to Jesus. The OP argued that not only does the Bible not say Jesus is God, but it actually says he is not.

The topic you are responding to is how true is the Bible? While it would be an interesting topic, it doesn't seem to hold much relevance to the one being discussed.

[Nattering Nabob]

According to the New Testament Jesus taught that he was the Son of God and this is why the Jews handed him over to the Romans...the charge was blasphemy.


You can argue forever whether or not this is true but according to the New Testament this is what he taught.