[Dystopian Darkness]

Do you think this is going to be a Christian apologetic rant? If you do, you're wrong; I'm an atheist and I've been one consciously so since I was 18 years old.

Is atheism a religion? Certainly not, atheism is the complete opposite of religion - But in many ways atheists behave in a manner that closely resembles religious fundamentalists.

Atheism is supposed to give you the tremendous advantaged of being a freethinker (unless you are a religious atheist) and free you from any dogmas or principles you think you should abide by. Is this really how it works? I don' think so.

Atheism and particularly new atheism may not be a religion but it behaves like one - Just look at it - Institutions and organizations (Freedom from religion foundations, secularist groups whose only purpose is to basically free people from religion by hating on it, atheist conventions and events, atheist churches, atheist books, the list goes on....), leaders (Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens), dogmatic thinking (Science and Reason represent an enlightened position, atheists make a conception of evidence and that's the only valid one, everything else is wrong and atheists are right because they've been blessed by the universe), close minded conceptions about other groups (like Christians or any other religion) as well as gross generalizations (There are thousands of religions in the world, you seriously can't know much b sides the big three and sometimes the big five - Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism) along with a wish that one's group (atheist organizations, leaders, etc.) cannot be criticized (because we are not a religion even though we behave like one - So our sacred cult gets to remain pure while we pretty much spend our lives telling people how idiotic they are for believing in gods)

Atheism is just a lack of belief in gods? So what? Christianity is just the belief that trough faith in Jesus you can achieve resurrection. It's not anything else, there are Christians who do not read the bible and never go to church. The fact it's just a lack of belief in gods hasn't stopped people from forming institutions around it, promoting it, writing books about it (seriously there's even books for black atheists specifically) and creating principles or tendencies around notions connected to new atheism - The most predominant characteristics are what atheists define as reason (any other conception of reason is stupid), science (although most don't know that much about science, just that the earth revolves around the sun and that god didn't show up in front of them), groupthinking (the same arguments are used by most new atheists), excess of ad hominen fallacies, excess of false dichotomy fallacies, an insistence that atheists somehow know better than Christians, Popes and priests how to interpret holy books and how to follow religious principles (Atheists always know what a good Christian is) and a huge Us V Them belief, not to mention most are liberal left-wing capitalists who believe in egalitarianism and a world where their ideas are seen as critical thinking under free speech but everything else is bullshit. - This is what Dawkins does, he creates (trough books and also Twitter, lectures, etc.) a mentality of two sides where one is solely composed by religious fundamentalists and creationists, ignoring every reason religion may appeal to people or why people are affected by their nurturing to become religious, and the other side is composed by enlightened atheists filled with reason and science who can free the world from the shackles of religion

I mean, seriously? Am I supposed to take this cult seriously as an atheist?

Richard Dawkins? Seriously, you complain so much about sexism yet you take the most irrational stances on things like rape and make sexist comments, yet you are so concerned about the middle east without having read the Quran. You wear T shirts saying "Religion, together we can find the cure"? I mean, this guy might as well create an evangelist station where he shouts "fuck religion" instead of "Amen!".

And I'm not even kidding when I say there's people who worship Dawkins. Important atheist figures have personal beliefs about everything and inevitably they'll influence atheists who like them to engage in groupthinking. Richard Dawkins is a biologist, but arguably he never did anything relevant b sides coining the word "meme" and writing a book about atheism while claiming it is a freethinking position.

Thunderf00t? I mean, for a scientist you sure like little about science and enjoy spending your afternoons ranting on how feminism oppresses you. Like in highschool must have been though. So much for skepticism

Sam Harris? So the Islamic state is all about religion? It probably is (mostly) but it is also true that you don't get to complain about a war against the US when the US pretty much created the Islamic state with their imperialist games. Is it Islam's fault when it's for Allah? Sure. So why do you think it's not Christians' fault when it's for Jesus?

Christopher Hitchens? So what if Christians don't bother you? "They have to, it's part of being a Christian, bla bla bla women aren't funny bla bla bla Judaism is ok because I say so and I can forget about all the crazy rabbis"


Religion appeals to people for a lot of reasons. I'm not in a position to judge people's actions or every religion as a monolith when there's specific denominations inside each one and since we are all influenced by the environment we grow in we end up not even deciding what we believe in. If the door is closed it's impossible for me to know what's on the other side. I have no reason to believe there's something. Some people want to speculate that there's a divinity behind it, and that's ok - As long as you don't want to force your speculations down my throat.

Are you an atheist and want to hate on this? Go ahead. Are you a theist and agree or disagree? Then share your opinion

[mikema63]

New atheism has a lot of group behaviors, this doesn't make them a cult any more than trekkies are a cult.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Someone like Dawkins might act like an idiot at times, or arrogant, or say stupid things from time to time (he's only human, right?), but atheism, let alone New Atheism, is not a cult. It's a pretty loaded thing to throw around the word "cult" so nonchalantly as well.

[Dystopian Darkness]

New atheism has a lot of group behaviors, this doesn't make them a cult any more than trekkies are a cult.

Well I've never really been into Star Trek and the whole trekkies thing but if they behave like fans of other franchises I would have no problem in considering a cult - Still the comparison doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You can find lots of common points in new atheism and there's reasons there's the label "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse". Even a quick google trough basic websites will tell you that new atheism is a form of atheism that lumps a desire to criticize religion and in some cases antitheism (not simply as a denial of godly authority but as an opposition to simple beliefs in god). My whole point in writing this is that I started to dislike this movement. When I only chatted with atheists I saw everything trough a new atheist's eyes and it all made sense, but as soon as I met people with different beliefs I realized that seeing the world trough a single pair of glasses is a narrow minded option and limits what we know and think about ideas - It's what new atheists basically do. I don't have anything against atheists who dislike religion organizing themselves, but please replace the "secular society" or "atheist society" name by things like "anti-religion/against religion/anti-Islam", etc.

[Dystopian Darkness]

Someone like Dawkins might act like an idiot at times, or arrogant, or say stupid things from time to time (he's only human, right?), but atheism, let alone New Atheism, is not a cult. It's a pretty loaded thing to throw around the word "cult" so nonchalantly as well.

I do not believe atheism is a cult because I happen to be an atheist myself and I'm actually leaning towards strong atheism rather than mere weak atheism but I consider the New Atheism movement to be much more than just a group of atheists - You may replace the word cult by organization, society, group, brotherhood, whatever you want - You have a group of people with similar ideas who actually to constantly not question their own views and see themselves with complexes of superiority. Dawkins acts like an idiot most of the time and doesn't do anything productive b sides saying that atheists have high IQ's (and I guess for him that's superiority) and telling religion to fuck itself (this is basically a very summed up manner of saying what he does everyday on twitter and lectures about religion)

[Rich]

I've hung out with members of the FWBO, renamed Tri-Ratna, because of the old name's association with the abusive predatory homosexuality of its leader, in fact I even had a girl friend who was part of them. That was and still is a bit of cult. I never bought the cool aid myself. Atheism is nothing like a cult.

[Taxtro]

"I don't have anything against atheists who dislike religion organizing themselves, but please replace the "secular society" or "atheist society" name by things like "anti-religion/against religion/anti-Islam", etc. "

So your whole problem is the name?!
Why then the rest of your tirades?
A secular society will be forced to oppose religion. It's only "moderates" that allow you to be secular without being anti-theists.

[Dagoth Ur]

Because anti-theists are lazy morons who blame ideas for the actions of people. Not to mention that they employ the exact same shaming techniques that Southern Baptists made famous towards anyone who strays off the Atheist plantation.

[mikema63]

I've never experienced what your talking about, perhaps your referring to the internet meme instead of the actual people who are anti-theists?

I find it funny that you simultaneously attack anti-theists for believing that ideas are responsible for the actions of people by blaming the idea of anti-theism for the actions of some people. I'm an anti-theist and I've never done any of the stuff you claim.

[Decky]

Can you prove that?

[mikema63]

Sure, I have a book that told me so, the book also told me it was inerrant.

[Dagoth Ur]

Anti-theism is the belief that theism itself is corrosive to the human mind. That it [theism] inherently limits the minds of those it is "imposed" upon and that [theism] is holding humanity back. That is idealism of the highest order and what New Atheism is all about. The whole leading crew of these jackasses are solid reactionaries of the worst sort.

Now if you don't go around trying to preach about it then kudos mike you are better than most (theist or anti-theist). It is just disgusting to watch those who were abused mentally by cruel adults masquerading as religious people turn to the same mental abuse for their own ends. If I believe in hell at all it is a place for those who abuse the minds of the young (inb4 you call teaching kids about God, and taking it seriously, abuse).

[mikema63]

(inb4 you call teaching kids about God, and taking it seriously, abuse)

My personal preference that people should find their own path and not be told what is absolutely true is just a personal preference. I feel the same way about how we teach science as if it's a series of incontrovertible facts instead of the limited probabilistic method that it is. I do not have the power to declare it child abuse legally and without that it's merely something I would prefer people didn't do.

Anti-theism is the belief that theism itself is corrosive to the human mind. That it [theism] inherently limits the minds of those it is "imposed" upon and that [theism] is holding humanity back.

I think theism is bad insofar as it tends towards absolutism and make people shut down discussion and debate, my atheism is a position of belief, my position on knowledge in agnosticism. I cannot know there is or isn't a god, I cannot know that anything I believe is absolutely true. It is all up for debate. Theism tends to make people see their beliefs as something they can know to be true, they are no longer willing to debate their beliefs, they will give no ground. That is what I dislike about theism is the absolutism that so many theists have about what they believe.

That is idealism of the highest order and what New Atheism is all about.

I have met all kinds of different atheists, but a large majority are materialists not idealists, not being right about how the material world works is not idealism.

The whole leading crew of these jackasses are solid reactionaries of the worst sort.

What? What period of history are they trying to revert us too? What period of human history was atheist?

Now if you don't go around trying to preach about it then kudos mike you are better than most (theist or anti-theist).

Define preach, I certainly discuss it with people and argue my point of view, but I don't hunt them down either.

It is just disgusting to watch those who were abused mentally by cruel adults masquerading as religious people turn to the same mental abuse for their own ends.

Yes, I hear a lot about non religious parents throwing their kids out of their homes and forcing them to go to atheist church and atheist "bible" study.

[Dagoth Ur]

I do not have the power to declare it child abuse legally and without that it's merely something I would prefer people didn't do.

If you had kids you wouldn't raise them atheist? You would just let them listen to whoever came by?

I think theism is bad insofar as it tends towards absolutism and make people shut down discussion and debate,

I don't think the majority of humanity tends toward absolutism but yeah pretty much all dumb people anywhere try to shut down discussion and debate regardless of ethos. Since the majority of humanity are theists I don't think what you are saying here holds water.

my atheism is a position of belief, my position on knowledge in agnosticism. I cannot know there is or isn't a god, I cannot know that anything I believe is absolutely true. It is all up for debate.

Thank you.

Theism tends to make people see their beliefs as something they can know to be true, they are no longer willing to debate their beliefs, they will give no ground. That is what I dislike about theism is the absolutism that so many theists have about what they believe.

The most unfortunate thing about theism is that people are not educated in it even though they are raised to be loyal to it. It is like a peasant existence. For instance you cannot "know" faith. Knowing renders belief meaningless. So going around trying to impose your faith on other is inherently absurd even from a theistic standpoint. Your average religious person repeats stories they were told as children as though that is their whole religion. Shit is sad.

I have met all kinds of different atheists, but a large majority are materialists not idealists, not being right about how the material world works is not idealism.

Have you ever read the Theses on Feuerbach? The pseudo-materialism most modern people subscribe to is a form of idealism.

What? What period of history are they trying to revert us too? What period of human history was atheist?

New Atheists.

Yes, I hear a lot about non religious parents throwing their kids out of their homes and forcing them to go to atheist church and atheist "bible" study.

When atheists stop being a very tiny minority you will.

[Taxtro]

Because anti-theists are lazy morons who blame ideas for the actions of people. Not to mention that they employ the exact same shaming techniques that Southern Baptists made famous towards anyone who strays off the Atheist plantation.

Excuse me?!
Are you actually saying that cognitive processes have nothing to do with our actions?

Ideas matter. Assumptions matter. When you think that a magical soul enters the zygote shortly after it forms, making it a fully fledged human being with personality, you'll be harshly opposed to abortion. When you think that you will get into paradise for killing non-believers, you'll be more likely to murder innocents. When you think demons cause certain illnesses and the priest can heal them via exorcism, you are likely to forgo effective treatments for your sick children and doom them with vain attempts at magic.
It doesn't matter how good your intentions are. When you start with the false premise, your efforts can result in evil.

[Dagoth Ur]

Wrong. Matter is all that matters. Ideas come after decisions are already made.

[Taxtro]

Wrong. Matter is all that matters. Ideas come after decisions are already made.

Please don't act stupid. You can only act on things you know or think you know.
When you assume that you can get ice cream at the gelateria on the market square, you'll go to the market square to get an ice cream. When you are convinced that the gelateria is at the tennis court, you'll go there. Whether it is actually there or not.
I cannot believe that I even have to write this.

[Dagoth Ur]

Please don't act stupid. You can only act on things you know or think you know.

Babies don't know what food is and yet they eat. Oh look it is action without thought. Now I'm sure you are gonna sit there and try to act superior to a baby but at least the baby doesn't think its ideas color the world.

When you assume that you can get ice cream at the gelateria on the market square, you'll go to the market square to get an ice cream.

Not unless I have money or been socially engrained to enjoy ice-cream.

When you are convinced that the gelateria is at the tennis court, you'll go there. Whether it is actually there or not.

If it is not there then you are just wrong. Convictions are built out of experiences not the air.

I cannot believe that I even have to write this.

I cannot believe that I am talking to someone who cannot grasp how this conversation was determined years ago by factors neither of us could have predicted. You amble up like it is your own idea and grandstand. Laughter flows.

Try again Idealist.

[Taxtro]

There is nothing more I can do. You are simply being entirely unreasonable. If we cannot agree on the bare minimum of rationality in a discussion, it is no more than babble.
You pretend not to understand how convictions lead to actions? How different information leads to different results? How different input leads to different output?
Well what can I say to that?

[Dagoth Ur]

Convictions are only as strong as the conditions that reinforce them. Without coming from where you do, when you did, with whom you did, etc nothing about who you are would be the same. You are 100% a product of the conditions of your life. These ideas you have are just your mind figuring out a framework that justifies these decisions.