My journey to Christian Communism; reflections - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14900814
Just because SolarCross is exaggerating it does not mean that his argument is without merit or that he is trolling. Any regular Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian will tell you point blank that "Communism is satanic" as it seeks to eradicate religion and will immediately point you to the Order of Militant Atheists in the Soviet Union who:

The Orthodox church suffered terribly in the 1930s, and many of its members were killed or sent to labor camps. Between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to fewer than 500. The watershed year was 1929, when Soviet policy put much new legislation in place that formed the basis for the harsh anti-religious persecution in the 1930s.

...............

During the purges of 1937 and 1938, church documents record that 168,300 Russian Orthodox clergy were arrested. Of these, over 100,000 were shot.[76] Many thousands of victims of persecution became recognized in a special canon of saints known as the "new martyrs and confessors of Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti ... viet_Union


It goes without question that a thread like this one would attract this argument. A sufficient argument for the reconciliation of 2 ideologies that are explicitly antagonistic to each other has not been provided. .ie How will a Christian communist prevent the politburo from eradicating Christianity when such an eradication is on the mission statement of communism? It's a fair question and one that the OP certainly expected.
#14900816
noemon wrote:Just because SolarCross is exaggerating it does not mean that his argument is without merit or that he is trolling. Any Old Calendarist Orthodox Christian will tell you point blank that "Communism is satanic" as it seeks to eradicate religion and will immediately point you to the Order of Militant Atheists in the Soviet Union who:



It goes without question that a thread like this one would attract this argument. A sufficient argument for the reconciliation of 2 ideologies that are explicitly antagonistic to each other has not been provided. .ie How will a Christian communist prevent the politburo from eradicating Christianity when
such an eradication is on the mission statement of communism? It's a fair question.


''Atheistic Communism'' is Anti-theist, absolutely, but that being said, the ideal of Socialism and the ideal of Christianity on a socio-economic level are pretty much the same. Scripture, the Fathers, Monasticism, the good that was brought into Atheistic Communism was nullified by the perversion of something good but which paradoxically gave it it's vital energy.

As for how to prevent an Atheistic and Anti-theistic group of Communists from becoming a threat, I believe it's quite possible that they've learned their lesson. The future of Communism lies in the hands of the believers, not the unbelievers, in God. Historically speaking, they've never been totally in control of the Socialist narrative, and I don't believe they will be in the future after they screwed things up.
#14900817
And sorry for the double posting, but I actually happen to be an ''old calendar'' Orthodox Christian. In fact, I'm pretty much a Old Believer sympathizer.
#14900819
annatar1914 wrote:''Atheistic Communism'' is Anti-theist, absolutely, but that being said, the ideal of Socialism and the ideal of Christianity on a socio-economic level are pretty much the same. Scripture, the Fathers, Monasticism, the good that was brought into Atheistic Communism was nullified by the perversion of something good but which paradoxically gave it it's vital energy.


The concept of sharing, charity and collectivism can indeed be said to be shared but that is not unique to communism and christianity but also to buddhism and islam and liberalism and social democracy and the various combinations thereof. One could make the same argument even better with christianity & liberalism who does not seek the destruction of religion like communism does for example and who protects the right to worship while also promulgating social contract, charity, justice, collectivism, liberty & equality.

As for how to prevent an Atheistic and Anti-theistic group of Communists from becoming a threat, I believe it's quite possible that they've learned their lesson. The future of Communism lies in the hands of the believers, not the unbelievers, in God. Historically speaking, they've never been totally in control of the Socialist narrative, and I don't believe they will be in the future after they screwed things up.


If the right to live a christian life is solely guaranteed by the overwhelming presence of Christians within a collective, then such a guarantee is flimsy, founded upon nothing and subject to collapse when such a presence is no longer overwhelming.

The only thing protecting the rights of people to be is justice and its institutions. A fine theory of justice can be found in the writings of John Rawls rather than Marx.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Theory_of_Justice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_as_Fairness
#14900826
SolarCross wrote:So that would be a no then, you aren't going to promise? Well I suppose that saves me the trouble of not believing you.


And you will not take my bet.

You do not seem to have any arguments. You just seem to go on and on about “the ebil communistss are soooo badd”.
#14900842
@annatar1914
You seem to be trying to absolve communists of killing Christians by saying oh well that is just what atheists do. But I can tell you as an atheist "capitalist" that that isn't true; being an atheist doesn't cause murderous inclinations towards religious people. We just don't get it, like tone deaf people can't hear harmonies and colour blind people can't tell the difference between red and green, so I don't see or hear or feel Jesus, I can see that some people do or seem to but I can't do it myself. I don't get it but I don't want to kill people who do and there doesn't seem to be any other "capitalist" atheists who do that either. It's a commie thing not an atheist thing, I guess it may really be a satanist thing.

If against all by best judgement the Christians were right all along and there are actual non-human intelligences with either benevolent or malevolent intentions, what the religious people call angels and devils, gods and whatnot, then it makes sense if that is true and these entities actually can influence human beings to do this or that good or bad thing then if you want to see what historical events or movements were caused by the evil gods, Satan and co, then you should look at the events that caused the torture and murder of very large numbers of Christians and Buddhists and so on. Communists top the bill at least in more recent centuries. So given that isn't it pretty reasonable to suspect Satan was involved in causing that? If you believe that Satan exists I don't really see how you could say communism wasn't a satanic project. There aren't any better candidates surely?
#14901068
@SolarCross

Satan is what the christians call the evil god, or gods, a Satanic agent doesn't necessarily even know they are a Satanist, let alone actually worship Satan just they are manipulated to serve an evil purpose by Satan.


But based on that logic, any form of sin is an act of Satanic worship since every sin is enacted due to an evil purpose. Therefore calling someone Satanic is moot since every evil act is technically Satanic. What I call into question is what specifically about Karl Marx or his ideology is especially Satanic. As you have stated, his atheism isn't an issue either.

Torturing Christians is an evil purpose. Yes the communists also tortured orthodox jews, they tortured Buddhists too in the far east.


The Soviets never tortured Buddhists (I was just using it as an example that Russians didn't care for what religion you adhered to). They never came close to torturing Buddhists at all given that China was a vassal, not an integrated part of the main Russian Soviet Administration. Muslims, however, were most certainly killed. Muslims were the second most killed religious denomination in Soviet Russia with #1 being Christians due to having a higher population.

The evil god is not just against the Christians it is against human beings and also the good gods.


If you are, as you say, leaning towards Christianity or actually Christian (given the obvious religious zeal you have displayed upon this thread) then referring to any other religion's God, especially a Buddhist one, as "good" is very heretical. Now I am not quite the expert on Christianity but I think such a view would not be accepted by a majority of Christians in the world.

I don't think atheism is enough to explain the torture of Christians or Buddhists. We have lots of atheists in the UK but so far they are not noted for torturing Christians.


I already explained why they tortured Christians and Muslims, you're just too emotional to consider my explanation. The Soviets did what they did because they needed to consolidate their power. Religions, regardless of your opinions towards them, are primarily social institutions. Social institutions, by their nature, have large degrees of political influence and therefore, for a state such as the Soviet Union in which their ideology is it's primary social institution, religions and dissenting ideologies are seen as foundations for rebellion.

I'll have you note that the Russians tortured Christians, Muslims, Jews, Tsarists, Liberals, and all those who objected against the establishment in the same way, in the same prisons, and often, the same cells. The Soviets did not distinctly torture Christians for Christians were not special in anyway. To Soviet officials, they were just another bunch of rebels to mow down. As much as you would want to believe that there was some great evil which influenced the minds of the Soviets and commanded them to kill specifically Christians, such an illusion does not exist.

When I was a child I believed that there was a great force in the world which caused evil everywhere but that by doing good, you could balance out such a force and provide peace in the world. When I grew up, such notions of justice became more complicated. I began to realize that there is no force which permits evil and there is no opposing force which seeks to vanquish it. There are only people. People who are terribly, terribly alone.
#14901394
Not so long ago, this was the point at which I shared my reflections anew on being both a committed Christian and a Communist, and the resultant thoughts and feelings as I reconcile those seeming contrary beliefs. I don't see it that way however, yet it appears that many do. Today I found an interesting quote from Pierre Proudhon, which I'd like to share although I am not an Anarchist it seems to resonate with me, this quote;

"O God of liberty! God of equality! Thou who didst place in my heart the sentiment of justice, before my reason could comprehend it, hear my ardent prayer! Thou hast dictated all that I have written; Thou hast shaped my thought; Thou hast directed my studies; Thou hast weaned my mind from curiosity and my heart from attachment, that I might publish Thy truth to the master and the slave. I have spoken with what force and talent Thou hast given me: it is Thine to finish the work. Thou knowest whether I seek my welfare or Thy glory, O God of liberty! Ah! perish my memory, and let humanity be free! Let me see from my obscurity the people at last instructed; let noble teachers enlighten them; let generous spirits guide them! Abridge, if possible, the time of our trial; stifle pride and avarice in equality; annihilate this love of glory which enslaves us; teach these poor children that in the bosom of liberty there are neither heroes nor great men! Inspire the powerful man, the rich man, him whose name my lips shall never pronounce in Thy presence, with a horror of his crimes; let him be the first to apply for admission to the redeemed society; let the promptness of his repentance be the ground of his forgiveness! Then, great and small, wise and foolish, rich and poor, will unite in an ineffable fraternity; and, singing in unison a new hymn, will rebuild Thy altar, O God of liberty and equality!"


And I do not know what was in Mr. Proudhon's heart, but for me, this God he speaks of is my God, the very Selfsame Triune Deity, the God of my Orthodox Christian Faith. In the West in the Gregorian Calendar today is Good Friday. The Criminal is Dead as far as the world is concerned, His followers almost all have fled. One denied he even knew Him under pressure, One betrayed Him for money. The religious authorities condemn Him, the Government puts Him to torture and execution.

But He is Alive, and because of that, so is true Equality, true Fraternity, true Liberty, and what is in the Kingdom of Heaven can be true here on earth if it be His Will, for all men of good will.
#14901445
annatar1914 wrote:Not so long ago, this was the point at which I shared my reflections anew on being both a committed Christian and a Communist, and the resultant thoughts and feelings as I reconcile those seeming contrary beliefs. I don't see it that way however, yet it appears that many do. Today I found an interesting quote from Pierre Proudhon, which I'd like to share although I am not an Anarchist it seems to resonate with me, this quote;

It isn't as well known as it should be but all the founding fathers of socialism, including Proudhon, were actual avowed satanists as is completely clear from their writing:

And for my part I say: The first duty of man, on becoming intelligent and free, is to continually hunt the idea of God out of his mind and conscience. For God, if he exists, is essentially hostile to our nature, and we do not depend at all upon his authority. We arrive at knowledge in spite of him, at comfort in spite of him, at society in spite of him; every step we take in advance is a victory in which we crush Divinity. I shall purify myself, idealize my being, and become the chief of creation, the equal of God. By what right should God still say to me: Be holy, for I am holy? Lying spirit, I will answer him, imbecile God, your reign is over; look to the beasts for other victims. For God is stupidity and cowardice; God is hypocrisy and falsehood; God is tyranny and misery; God is evil.

Here Proudhon writes of his hatred and rejection of God the Father. He does more than reject God though he also embraces the Other.
Come, Satan, come, thou the calumniated of priests and of kings! Let me embrace thee, let me press thee to my bosom! Long is it that I have known thee, and long hast thou known me! Thy works, O blessed one of my heart! not always are they beautiful and good; but they alone give a meaning to the universe, and save it from absurdity. What would man be without thee? A beast.

So when you consider this you must realise that the "god of liberty and equality" he is speaking of in the passage you quote is not God the Father but His Adversary Satan. It should also be pointed out that Proudhon preceded Hitler in desiring the European Jewry to be forced into exile or exterminated:

Proudhon's notes
December 26, 1847: Jews. Write an article against this race that poisons everything by sticking its nose into everything without ever mixing with any other people. Demand its expulsion from France with the exception of those individuals married to French women. Abolish synagogues and not admit them to any employment. Demand its expulsion Finally, pursue the abolition of this religion. It’s not without cause that the Christians called them deicides. The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated. H. Heine, A. Weill, and others are nothing but secret spies ; Rothschild, Crémieux, Marx, Fould, wicked, bilious, envious, bitter, etc. etc. beings who hate us. The Jew must disappear by steel or by fusion or by expulsion. Tolerate the elderly who no longer have children. Work to be done – What the peoples of the Middle Ages hated instinctively I hate upon reflection and irrevocably. The hatred of the Jew like the hatred of the English should be our first article of political faith. Moreover, the abolition of Judaism will come with the abolition of other religions. Begin by not allocating funds to the clergy and leaving this to religious offerings. – And then, a short while later, abolish the religion.


Is Socialism’s True Father—Satan?
^ do read this above article it is good primer into this obscure but important origin of socialism.

It is by no means a coincidence that Bakunin and Marx were also Satanists.

-------

Also lest it be said that Satanism was just a feature of first generation socialists here is a quote of Saul Alinsky who died in 1972:

Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins—or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom—Lucifer.
#14901499
Solar Cross, you said, well, utter bullshit;

It isn't as well known as it should be but all the founding fathers of socialism, including Proudhon, were actual avowed satanists as is completely clear from their writing:


Here Proudhon writes of his hatred and rejection of God the Father. He does more than reject God though he also embraces the Other.


I've read that ''quote from Proudhon'' numerous times, especially in the traditional roman catholic media of which I was once part, but the absolute fact is that that quote is totally false, a calumny actually started by a French RCC Archbishop of all people.

So when you consider this you must realise that the "god of liberty and equality" he is speaking of in the passage you quote is not God the Father but His Adversary Satan.


I realize no such thing, as I explained before. You trace down that quote, and you'll find it always comes down to a guy with a personal beef or a political agenda.


It should also be pointed out that Proudhon preceded Hitler in desiring the European Jewry to be forced into exile or exterminated:


As I said, I'm no Anarchist, I just expressed the thought that Proudhon's prayer applies in my mind to the Christian God. Satan is known in Scripture as ''Mammon'' among other names, it means ''Wealth''.



Is Socialism’s True Father—Satan?
^ do read this above article it is good primer into this obscure but important origin of socialism.


Second hand bullshit from people with an agenda.

It is by no means a coincidence that Bakunin and Marx were also Satanists.


Bakunin was an Antitheist (Satanic), not a Satanist as such, and a total enemy of Marx. Karl Marx was a Lutheran who may or may not have been an Atheist, but was definitely opposed to the state churches in Europe of the time. Read a book decades ago in which a guy said that Marx wasn't personally. Marx was a man whose philosophy however was non-theistic and utterly about this world, the world we live in, he also knew that most of the people he was trying to persuade were believers in God, even if they were a little disgusted by the close alliance of many clergy with the Capitalist elites.

Actually read these people's works, not second or third hand reports and ''quotes'' that can be manipulated by opponents with an Agenda.


Also lest it be said that Satanism was just a feature of first generation socialists here is a quote of Saul Alinsky who died in 1972


Saul Alinsky was in my opinion, probably an informant and working secretly for the powers that be, was certainly a revisionist. If he had not been such, he probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the USA.
#14902433
Saw this video on the dismantling of the Soviet Union;



Notice I said ''dismantling'', not ''collapse''. By no means perfect, and fatally weak in the spiritual area, The Soviet Union was still far superior in uplifting the toiling mass of humanity than any nation ever before in human history.

That's why it had to be destroyed. And the biggest threat was as usual, from within, and this was of course exploited.
#14902435
And furthermore, I watched this video on the dismantling of the USSR;




Socialists will learn from the mistakes of the past, must learn, or their will be no future for humanity at all. Yes, God is in charge, but He expects us to do our part, with our two hands and the enlightenment He gives us, to work together unselfishly for each other, for our own good and that of all men.
#14902807
One of the most common errors of Biblical studies is to find verses and cherry pick those and create one's own false image of the whole. the Bible, OT or NT, is not a list of isolated verses just thrown together without order or intention. It has a definite structure and pattern, and the NT fits like a glove with OT premises and allegories.

Read complete 'books', note context, examine the complex interrelations of the Chiastic structures, and the timeline of Jesus's ministry in conjunction with the timeline of the Torah, for a start; it is not an easy literary work, and certainly not meant for idiots to grasp and contemplate, it's a difficult and extremely intelligent teaching text written by literary giants, not credulous hippies.

Good luck with your studies, and hope you receive many epiphanies and insights over your life; it's a grand theology, truly revolutionary, in a way no pretentious pseudo-intellectual philosophy will ever be.

I would highly recommend Joachim Jeremias' Jerusalem In The Time Of Jesus as a companion text when examining the New Testament, as it will make much of the contemporary Jewish culture and stories and references far less 'mysterious' and clear to the student. It comes in both German and English translations, and is heavily footnoted with a wide variety of historical sources and references, and an incredible bibliography. You can find it easily, as there are many copies for sale from various online stores. It is particularly useful in getting a handle on the Pharisee sects and their roles, for one instance.
#14903839
Oberon wrote:One of the most common errors of Biblical studies is to find verses and cherry pick those and create one's own false image of the whole. the Bible, OT or NT, is not a list of isolated verses just thrown together without order or intention. It has a definite structure and pattern, and the NT fits like a glove with OT premises and allegories.

Read complete 'books', note context, examine the complex interrelations of the Chiastic structures, and the timeline of Jesus's ministry in conjunction with the timeline of the Torah, for a start; it is not an easy literary work, and certainly not meant for idiots to grasp and contemplate, it's a difficult and extremely intelligent teaching text written by literary giants, not credulous hippies.

Good luck with your studies, and hope you receive many epiphanies and insights over your life; it's a grand theology, truly revolutionary, in a way no pretentious pseudo-intellectual philosophy will ever be.

I would highly recommend Joachim Jeremias' Jerusalem In The Time Of Jesus as a companion text when examining the New Testament, as it will make much of the contemporary Jewish culture and stories and references far less 'mysterious' and clear to the student. It comes in both German and English translations, and is heavily footnoted with a wide variety of historical sources and references, and an incredible bibliography. You can find it easily, as there are many copies for sale from various online stores. It is particularly useful in getting a handle on the Pharisee sects and their roles, for one instance.


I appreciate your input, Oberon! I'll be sure to check that out.

I read also the Early Church Fathers, too, and even the books contained within the ''Dead Sea Scrolls'' Genre of the Qumran Sect, the Septuagint, etc..

Indeed, the critique of the Church against the powers of this world go beyond any ''pretentious 19th century philosophy'', but sometimes those within the Church need to be reminded that living the Christian life is not truly optional if valid for salvation, and that it has a social dimension as well as a personal one. I know why Communism as a secular Marxist Leninist Ideology was overthrown pretty much everywhere now, but it is my hope that someday a chastened Left will find God, and that with Him and not without Him resistance to the powers of this world may be made that will last until His Return, a Social Beacon of Hope for Poor and Suffering Mankind.

Today is Good Friday in the Orthodox Calendar. The Poor Man is put to death and numbered among the Wicked. Everywhere there is darkness. But Easter is coming, the Resurrection, and with it, the world will never be the same. ''For in as much you have done unto the least of my brethren, so you have done unto Me."

To the end of further understanding, it is my avowed purpose to engage in an ongoing dialogue with Victoribus Spolia, to discuss these very issues with him and him alone for now on a separate thread. It is, in my vision, both an Eschatological and a Metahistorical thread, where we will discuss the collapse of the present world order and what will replace it and why. On my part, it will include Marxian analysis along with insights from Orthodox theology and teaching.
#14908489
Yesterday was the birthday of Vladimir Lenin. I thought i'd reflect on the man not so much the legend or revolutionary icon he turned out to be, or the vicious monster his enemies have spoken or written about.

He was no doubt a very remarkable man with a great presence of mind and strength of will and character, to have carried out the revolution along with so many others. For many years I used to subscribe to the ''Great Man of History'' theory, that for good or for evil great men, superior men, have moved and shaped their world. I don't think that's greatness anymore, and people are as moved by what comes before as they influence it themselves. A ''chance'' meeting, a casual remark, and the whole world is moved into a new direction.

I think Vladimir Lenin was basically a mystery. As all men are a mystery even to themselves. During the Great War, he chose the principled anti-war position, even as he believed that revolution probably would not come in his lifetime. When it came, he helped lead the new revolution into basically uncharted waters, and mistakes were made. But successes were made too and the revolution survived much as it had in America and France during the early Bourgeoisie phase of history. I feel drawn to condemn Lenin for the persecutions of the Church, but that same Faith is hesitant to condemn individuals by name, and rather seeks to heal. Dealing with an ''Atheist'' in the way only an Atheist can be dealt with. I pray for him, and remember that good will come of the evil he committed, and what good he did will resound not to his glory, but that of God, much as the story of Joseph who being sold into slavery by his brothers into Egypt wound up saving their own lives. One can probably say too much and lose one's way if one dwells on these matters, but even if his voice was as the braying of an Ass, it would be Balaam's Ass, speaking some truths about the world that we may not want to hear.
#14910151
One of the interesting things I've regarded with some fascination at it's mysterious workings, is how on Right and Left of the political spectrum there has been a historical trend in the 20th/21st century towards the gradual destruction of the Nation State in it's classical post 1648 Westphalian form.

''Totalitarianism'' is a myth, a useful one for some, but a myth nonetheless. In the Third Reich, the private extra-governmental NSDAP and SS organs increasingly engulfed the State machinery. The Fuhrer was a personal ruler leading by individual command sealed by personal oaths to him alone.

In the USSR, the Party and KGB were superior to and much larger than the ministries of the formal ''government'' of the USSR, even the Red Army being outside the formal purview of the Soviet Government. The fact that sometimes the head of the CPSU was also the formal ''head'' of the Government obscures but does not deny these facts.

Today in the United States and the rest of the Western world, we have an increasing privatization of government functions as well. What is this phenomena, and it's meaning? Is the Ideological in it's triumph also necessarily something personal even as a mass collective political phenomena? I have believed so from the beginning.

For several years now I have been under the influence of Orestes Brownson in regarding his distinctions between a ''republic'' of the common good, based on public trust in the form of the State and basically being ''Civilization'', and ''Barbarism'', a society perhaps even highly cultured and possessed of high technology but built on a politics based on private right and personal rule.

I have come to understand based on the actual world's political history that such distinctions are false and misleading. All the philosophical iterations of both modern reactionary Fascism and progressive Socialism are in seeming agreement here, that the State is necessarily withering away. When both Marxist Leninists and Anarchist Capitalists can agree on something, it is probably a function of it's genuine reality.

There is much to ponder here, and so i'm inviting my friend Victoribus Spolia to enter into a discussion on this reflection upon the modern disintegration of the State, and the State's resistance to being disintegrated.
#14910510
My reflections about today of course spawned from May 1st, International Worker's Day. I believe that Jesus Christ, Son of God and born of the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of God, Second Person of the Triune Deity, was and is Incarnate as Man, the Son of Man. As such, He took-forever-our Humanity, and was and is a Laborer.... ''Behold the Man''.

Jesus the Christ, Our Savior, the Working Man. The Galilean. Always was, always will be.

Of course He's One of us working people, the Carpenter from Nazareth. Incarnate God's deeply political act as Man was overturning the moneychanger's tables in the Temple and driving them out, the Thieves. I may not be able to count on the fools who try to make a better world without Him and in their own hubris, and those one who claim to follow Him but do not fully follow the logic and hard sayings of the Gospel (myself included, to be fair) and even support the socio-economic order, but I can count on Him before it's all said and done.
#14910587
Work should be completed quickly and efficiently so we have time for other work we call enjoyment.
How many days was I in a hurry to get home from work so I could work? :)
#14910954
One Degree wrote:Work should be completed quickly and efficiently so we have time for other work we call enjoyment.
How many days was I in a hurry to get home from work so I could work? :)


Much of all this ''work'' in the modern world is in fact an organized diversion from reflection on what is truly important. Most people these days couldn't stand a single hour being left alone in a room with nothing to do, before they began thinking uncomfortable thoughts...

As I'm not at the moment one of those people afraid of uncomfortable thoughts coming into my mind, I have come to realize that this very thread is vanity and wrong minded. I don't want to be known as anything more than what I am, an Orthodox Christian. Whatever else I believe flows from my life in Christ, as much as possible with His help. I never intended this thread to cause any scandal or to offend, God knows. I'm rather mediocre of expression, but I'm happy to share what wisdom I have gained by trial and error if nothing else.
#14953009
So as many know among my friends here, I recently posted a thread on my problems with my political and philosophical worldview, and found myself after over 200+ posts, written by myself and friends willing to help me in my internal discussion, that I am still pretty much a rather idiosyncratic Socialist, and Orthodox Christian. I ended the thread with this;
@Political Interest ,@Victoribus Spolia ,@Drlee ,@Decky ,@Potemkin , and others, I am going to post my conclusions now after the musings and reflections on this thread, and the contributions of others I have to say have been most valuable.

I labelled this thread somewhat flippantly; ' a ''return'' to traditionalism, a rejection of ''communism''', with the implication of the quote marks that something deeper was involved and acknowledged by myself. In the beginning I announced that I believed that private property was at least a concession to human sin and folly much as polygamy and divorce in the past, and held in theory to the monarchical principle. I also indicated that I remained an Anti-capitalist. I also averred that regardless of my personal beliefs, it was Anarcho-Capitalism that was the ideology that would dominate the 21st century even although Fascism itself would also make a comeback.

I also discussed if only to prevent their discussion, a number of other traditional beliefs which I hold sacrosanct and inviolate, and are adamant about to the end. (@Victoribus Spolia , my ''material monism'' which I discussed is one of these. Yet however I do hold of course that God Himself, apart from the Incarnation of the God-Man Jesus Christ, is beyond categorical comments, transcendent and immanent, and can be the One and Three Who are rightfully called ''Spirit'', and the Observer of Berkeley that insures Matter as not being a self-existent eternal or independent reality of itself).

What with the conclusion of this thread I can say is that I am;

1. No longer a Monarchist. Only God is Monarch.

2. Still a Socialist, in a qualified ''Soviet'' (as in ''Council'' Democracy/Republic) and even ''Bolshevik'' (as in; ''Bol'Sheva''=''Majority'', for the People, the laboring classes) in a sense, supporting the System that was built while understanding that tremendous errors where made in the spiritual realm which eventually undermined and collapsed the Soviet Union and it's allies. I am not a Marxist Leninist in that I cannot abide it's godlessness.

3. The ''Tradition'' I have returned to is not the traditions of men then, but the Traditions of God, the Apostolic Teaching. And the ''Communism'' which I have rejected is thus the godless sort which was and is doomed to fail.

4. I accept ''personal property'', but make the distinction as others do between that and ''private property'', Land and the other means of Production which belong to no one individual.

5. I condemn the excesses and crimes of the American, French, and Russian Revolutions, the sins and mistakes of the Revolutionaries, while accepting the results, the setbacks and failures that mean that the struggle for justice in this world is imperfect, but must be fought.

6. As a corollary of #5, I understand that counter-revolution, is as much a part of the natural dialectic in this fallen world as revolution, and that good men and evil men are found on both sides, or even in the same beating breast of a person's heart, and that I won't forget my humanity with enemies of a rival material political and socio-economic system in this life even if I struggle with them for my own. Lessons from the American Civil War. What is un-natural and artificial is the modern liberalism which ''delays the decision'', and the Modernism which replaces values and denudes them of meaning altogether.

7. If my pessimism is correct and Barbarism wins out over Socialism, then I am a child of my age and will plan accordingly. Just because I say things are the way they are, or will be the way they will be, one cannot necessarily conclude that I approve, or condemn, by this alone.

8. Statism does lead to Socialism as Libertarians and Anarcho-Capitalists worry over, and is not as I previously considered a usurpation of a spiritual role, itself usurped in historical fact.But this I do not consider wrong, instead I see it as a positive development, the advance of civilization over barbarism, of common good and public trust over private ''rights'' and ''privileges'' based on accidents of birth or wealth or force and fraud...

Although my conclusion may appear incomplete or somewhat inconclusive, I have determined that these are the stands I will take into the foreseeable future, God forgive me my mediocrity, and so I finish the journey of this thread. Post comments if you like that i'll answer, but my main purpose here is done on this thread.

Thank you and God bless you all, in sincere gratitude!


In much shorter language, I had dropped the remnants of Monarchism from my worldview, and held to my Christian Communist beliefs conditioned by the thought that civilization itself may be collapsing along with (and because of) Modernity, but that a modified Socialism was the only bulwark (short of divine intervention) against this coming age of Barbarism.

Going forwards with this thread, bravely as I may and with the wisdom God might enlighten me with, I will in future posts discuss the nature of this coming Barbarity that will soon be upon us.
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