My journey to Christian Communism; reflections - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15023097
Palmyrene wrote:Rapists rape even when there are laws. Torturers are employed by the state. Human traffickers are protected by capitalists because they profit off the business.

Laws don't prevent anything and often laws are used to defend torture and human trafficking.

Laws do lower it, and help prevent it on a higher percentage per population.
#15023100
SSDR wrote:Laws do lower it, and help prevent it on a higher percentage per population.


No. They don't.

If a person who wanted to rape someone but only didn't because the law prevents them will end up doing it someday. His desires will overcome them.

You don't just think about raping someone and say "if only there weren't any laws" and not eventually rape someone.
#15023104
Okay, as I might remind some, this is the ''Spirituality'' Sub-Forum, and I've been discussing with others on this thread the ramifications of living my Christian beliefs as one who is a Socialist.

I'm not a Anarchist, I am a Statist, believe very much in the power of the State.

And this is not the venue for discussion of Anarchism, it's merits or the lack thereof, it's pretty much for Theists who have a concern for Christianity/Communism-Socialism.
#15023106
annatar1914 wrote:Okay, as I might remind some, this is the ''Spirituality'' Sub-Forum, and I've been discussing with others on this thread the ramifications of living my Christian beliefs as one who is a Socialist.

I'm not a Anarchist, I am a Statist, believe very much in the power of the State.

And this is not the venue for discussion of Anarchism, it's merits or the lack thereof, it's pretty much for Theists who have a concern for Christianity/Communism-Socialism.


How about Islam?
#15023110
Palmyrene wrote:How about Islam?


Make a thread somewhere if you are some kind of Socialist/Communist and a Muslim, I bet it would be interesting to others. As the subtitle of my thread indicates; ''reflections'', here I work out in external thought the development of my politics in the real world, informed by what I think about here.

Communism of almost any kind is all but dead all over the world, Marxist, Leninist, or otherwise. And since I am not an Revolutionary despite accepting certain results of the Revolution as such, all I can hope for strictly in this life is an organic development in which civilized people somewhere or everywhere eventually realize that Socialism is just... Right, and practice it more or less unhindered in peace.
#15024311
Palmyrene wrote:If a person who wanted to rape someone but only didn't because the law prevents them will end up doing it someday. His desires will overcome them.

Many people would not.
You don't just think about raping someone and say "if only there weren't any laws" and not eventually rape someone.

Many people do think like this, they just do not want to claim this since they could get in trouble for threats.
#15024313
Palmyrene wrote:How about Islam?

Islam is the most anti socialist religion. Islam supports the family institution, sexist gender roles, social hierarchy (which is against your anarchist ideology), and worship. All of these mentioned topics are against socialism. Islam also supports a currency.

There are no "Muslim socialists." There are also no "Muslim feminists" since Islam is against womens' liberation.
#15024327
SSDR wrote:Islam is the most anti socialist religion. Islam supports the family institution, sexist gender roles, social hierarchy (which is against your anarchist ideology), and worship. All of these mentioned topics are against socialism. Islam also supports a currency.

There are no "Muslim socialists." There are also no "Muslim feminists" since Islam is against womens' liberation.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_socialism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism
#15024329
SSDR wrote:Many people would not.


If a dude is bragging on the internet about how he touched a girl on the train without getting caught he's going to move on to more and more extreme offenses till he rapes someone.

Many people do think like this, they just do not want to claim this since they could get in trouble for threats.


People who want to rape someone eventually will.
#15024395
@Palmyrene and @SSDR ;

Is there any particular reason why you folks like to post on this thread about Islam and Communism, when you are both apparently Atheists (read the sub-forum rules on posting) and this thread hasn't a thing to do with Islam and Communism as such?

I mean, I'm a Christian Theist, something of a ''Statist'', and am probably more of a Marxist Leninist than you lot are... Maybe you should create a thread, one or both of you, reflecting some interesting facts about Islam and Communism. Muhammad was a merchant, a trader, pretty much a capitalist, so I don't imagine there's much of an avenue for Socialist Islamism.
#15024399
annatar1914 wrote:@Palmyrene and @SSDR ;

Is there any particular reason why you folks like to post on this thread about Islam and Communism, when you are both apparently Atheists (read the sub-forum rules on posting) and this thread hasn't a thing to do with Islam and Communism as such?

I mean, I'm a Christian Theist, something of a ''Statist'', and am probably more of a Marxist Leninist than you lot are... Maybe you should create a thread, one or both of you, reflecting some interesting facts about Islam and Communism. Muhammad was a merchant, a trader, pretty much a capitalist, so I don't imagine there's much of an avenue for Socialist Islamism.


Muhammad was a merchant yeah but he was also basically a class traitor. He gave up his merchant business to be a prophet as his full time job.

And don't mind SSDR, she just follows me wherever I go.
#15024669
So anyway...

Am I still a Socialist/Communist today? Yes.

Am I a ''Statist'', someone who believes in the at-least-temporary existence of the State to administer a Socialist government and safeguard the existence of the society in formation? Yes.

Do I believe that Socialism/Communism scientifically is best expressed by the works of such men as Marx, Engels, Lenin, and so forth? Debatable.

Why is this questionable?

One reason has been the odious and hateful Atheistic bias of most Socialists and Communists in modern times. Although, it should be said that Capitalism and AntiCommunism/AntiSocialism is as Atheistic implicitly as the modern Communist revolutionaries were explicitly. If modernity is in essence not ruled by Theists, rule is not necessarily for that reason, as injustice is to be tolerated at the hands of evil men if it is right and good to obey in all matters except sin.

The other reason is the alleged moral right of revolution. This is debatable, true. Is one to do evil that good might perhaps come of it? No, although it is possible to carry out a ''Revolution'' if you can call it that if the evil is not willed but occurs indirectly as a consequence, and if there is an illegitimate regime in power, strictly criminal and a tyranny which is by no means lawful over the people, in essence a kind of foreign occupation over a nation. In other words a banditry, a usurpation of sovereignty that lost or never truly had the consent of the governed, implicit or explicit.

A hard historical example would be the Bolshevik Revolution. The Communists did not overthrow the Tsar, he let go of his power and government basically ceased to exist, with two power structures competing to legitimately represent the will of the people; the so-called ''Provisional Government'' and the ''Soviets'', the People's councils which organically sprung up everywhere in Russia to govern the country. The Soviets won under the leadership of the Bolshevik party (under the slogan of ''all power to the Soviets''), and therefore that Soviet government was legitimate, hard as that may be to hear for some.

So the next question arises; given human nature, is it necessary in these times to engage in Revolution to overthrow a regime?


I say no, for this reason; it seems historically speaking that in every case of Revolution as opposed to Rebellion/Sedition/Treason, no matter what the Revolutionaries thought of the matter, Sovereignty and rightful power actually has fallen into their laps with an real absence of legitimate power on the other side.


And yes I know that this has consequences once it is believed to be so.
#15024694
Palmyrene wrote:Um, could you rephrase that?


For anyone to whom it might matter, now or in the future, maybe even after you or I are dead. Wisdom is largely learning from others successes and mistakes and avoiding too much of the latter in one's life journey.

At the very least, I can go back and revisit notions and concepts that I might have not devoted sufficient attention to.

Here, I'm honest about myself and what I believe and the struggles I engage in to be internally consistent without moral, philosophical, and spiritual repugnance. Perhaps to a degree that others, enjoying the anonymity of cyberspace and ''creating'' other selves if you will, do not engage in such honesty.
#15024700
annatar1914 wrote:For anyone to whom it might matter, now or in the future, maybe even after you or I are dead. Wisdom is largely learning from others successes and mistakes and avoiding too much of the latter in one's life journey.


I don't think the sites servers will be up that long. Given that I'm fifteen and suppose I die at around a hundred (though life extension technologies may increase this), this means that this site would have to be still up by 2108. By that point in time we would probably a completely new internet let alone this site be still managed.

I recommend you write a book instead, it's what I intend to do on side next to organizing and political activism.
#15024706
Palmyrene wrote:I don't think the sites servers will be up that long. Given that I'm fifteen and suppose I die at around a hundred (though life extension technologies may increase this), this means that this site would have to be still up by 2108. By that point in time we would probably a completely new internet let alone this site be still managed.

I recommend you write a book instead, it's what I intend to do on side next to organizing and political activism.


It's a possibility, writing. I honestly suspect that Modern Civilization will be done for by 2108, it is quite unsustainable. One of the problems I have philosophically is in fact that much of what passes for political ideology will no longer exist in a couple generations; 40-80 years or so. This is why I think that it would be good for you to discuss Anarchism and other issues with @Victoribus Spolia , because he's more right than most here are prepared to accept.

So, upon reflection if none of this lasts, it could be mere vanity and delusion, which should be rooted out. That which is could be better than that which can never be.
#15024712
annatar1914 wrote:It's a possibility, writing. I honestly suspect that Modern Civilization will be done for by 2108, it is quite unsustainable. One of the problems I have philosophically is in fact that much of what passes for political ideology will no longer exist in a couple generations; 40-80 years or so. This is why I think that it would be good for you to discuss Anarchism and other issues with @Victoribus Spolia , because he's more right than most here are prepared to accept.

So, upon reflection if none of this lasts, it could be mere vanity and delusion, which should be rooted out. That which is could be better than that which can never be.


Unfortunately @Victoribus Spolia and I differ significantly upon what anarchism is. I'd say that he's more like a feudalist than an anarchist.

Capitalism and state is unsustainable and both are tied to hierarchy. Those are the two aspects of modern civilization and you can't get rid of it without removing both. Victoribus doesn't seem to think so.

Further Victoribus wants to go before modern civilization while I want to go beyond it. Regression will inevitably cycle back to progression. The point is to break the cycle entirely instead of going backwards and temporarily ending it.
#15024724
Unfortunately @Victoribus Spolia and I differ significantly upon what anarchism is. I'd say that he's more like a feudalist than an anarchist.


If feudalism or an even more ancient way of life like a socio-economic system based on slavery gain sway again, it will be because of the trend towards Anarchy that I detect.

Capitalism and state is unsustainable and both are tied to hierarchy.


If that is the case, I'd say that it's more proper to say the ''modern state'' and ''modern capitalism''. As for hierarchy...


Those are the two aspects of modern civilization and you can't get rid of it without removing both. Victoribus doesn't seem to think so.


There's a reason why I say he and those like him are the more consistent and philosophically grounded Anarchists, but as I'm saying also, best let him make his case.

Further Victoribus wants to go before modern civilization while I want to go beyond it. Regression will inevitably cycle back to progression. The point is to break the cycle entirely instead of going backwards and temporarily ending it.


There are other considerations that we probably can't cover, at least not in depth, but as I've said, part of my problem with modern ideology is that I'm nearly 100% certain that by the time I shuffle off this mortal coil, modernity will be well on it's way to systemic and worldwide collapse.
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