Muslims are the true "feminists" - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14736161
Very quirky, entertaining thread. "Men are the evil sex," "Islam is feminist," genital mutilation is empowering/for the benefit of women (how wonderfully progressive), reported rates of crime being lower = some kind of selling point, women having restrictions imposed on them like clothing/public behavior/interacting with men is feminist and progressive, etc.

Very funny thread! :up:

Decky wrote:I guess when you get stoned to death for being raped women tend not to report it. :roll:


It is also not uncommon in many rural areas in the MENA regions, perhaps most notoriously in the media would be Pakistan, for family members to be raped as punishment if one of them reports an initial rape. Mukhtar Mai might be one example people have heard of.
#14736265
Everyone keeps spawting this bullshit about how women are punished for being raped.
Yet surprisingly it is only common in Saudi Arabia by the regime that is protected by countries like the US and UK, you know, the same country where most people who keep spreading this myth comes from. Weird right.

Then again, when looking at reality and statistics and evidence, the only difference between the average Muslim countries and western countries is that in Muslim countries rapists recieve death penalty for rape, while in western countries not only they go to jail and not for very long, but also released back into society where they usually would rape or atleast commit more crimes, or in some cases wont go to jail to begin with and get to go free.

And also funny how the countries where most these myths comes from also tend to be countries which has incredibly high numbers of sex crimes, like the US for example.
#14736267
anasawad wrote:Everyone keeps spawting this bullshit about how women are punished for being raped.
Yet surprisingly it is only common in Saudi Arabia by the regime that is protected by countries like the US and UK, you know, the same country where most people who keep spreading this myth comes from. Weird right.

Then again, when looking at reality and statistics and evidence, the only difference between the average Muslim countries and western countries is that in Muslim countries rapists recieve death penalty for rape, while in western countries not only they go to jail and not for very long, but also released back into society where they usually would rape or atleast commit more crimes, or in some cases wont go to jail to begin with and get to go free.

And also funny how the countries where most these myths comes from also tend to be countries which has incredibly high numbers of sex crimes, like the US for example.


It is not uncommon for women in rural areas of Pakistan to be punished by their village elders with rape because of the perceived sexual transgressions of other members of their family, and are then pressured to commit suicide from the shame of being raped. What's bullshit is that it happens in the first place, not bullshit because someone points it out. No one said that everywhere in the Islamic world people are raped, and no one said that rape only happens in Muslim nations.
#14736270
@Bulaba Jones
True it does happen in Pakistan, but not by family members actually, rather by authorities as the actual studies show that women are in many times arrested if they filed any such reports and they're sexually abused by security forces and generally authority figures of many ranks.
Over 70% of women to file rape reports get such abuse actually.
Thats one of the main reasons for several riots and uprisings against the government in the latest years.

But here lies the difference. It is something that people are rising against, to a point there is a called "war on rape" in Pakistan currently.
And these crimes are not common in rural areas because of families there rather studies shows that this is mostly common against women of poor backgrounds.
So its an obvious crime and oppression happening and many are standing up against.

The place where it is actually common and accepted, and that is the only place in matter of fact, is Saudi Arabia.
So yea, that kinda looks like a generalization filled with bullshit when its generalized over Muslim countries in general, and specially when its done in countries that are protecting those who commit these acts.
And specially atrocious when considering that the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the ruling sect, Wahabism is the same one who labels over half the Muslims in the world as infidels and not only ok to kill them but rather they should be killed off as infidels.

If we want to look at the majority of the Muslim world, what we see is that it has more women participation, less sexual crimes, more and harsher punishment against those who commit sexual crimes. More female leading figures and more female scientists and engineers and doctors than most countries in the world including many western countries. And in matter of fact the major Muslim countries, that is ones with the largest populations, have elected more female leaders and presidents and government officials than the majority of western countries and specially the US which has never had any female leader so far.

So you can see how these generalizations and statements really are right ?
#14736272
anasawad wrote:@Bulaba Jones
True it does happen in Pakistan, but not by family members actually, rather by authorities as the actual studies show that women are in many times arrested if they filed any such reports and they're sexually abused by security forces and generally authority figures of many ranks.


This is why I literally included in my post "village elders," as I didn't say members of their family are the ones who mete out the punishment.

If we want to look at the majority of the Muslim world, what we see is that it has more women participation, less sexual crimes, more and harsher punishment against those who commit sexual crimes. More female leading figures and more female scientists and engineers and doctors than most countries in the world including many western countries. And in matter of fact the major Muslim countries, that is ones with the largest populations, have elected more female leaders and presidents and government officials than the majority of western countries and specially the US which has never had any female leader so far.


There is a particular saying in English "you are singing to the choir." A religion itself isn't necessarily feminist or anti-feminist: poor treatment of women occurs in the Bible as it does in the Quran and other religious texts. I've pointed out for years that Syria made impressive strides for women before the Western-backed Sunni terrorists wrecked the place. A country like Pakistan can indeed elect a female leader despite being Muslim-majority. My point is that Islam is not fundamentally feminist, but Muslims can be feminists depending on how they act, just like how Christianity is not fundamentally feminist, but Christians can be.

So I think you are perhaps being too defensive over nothing. I don't think all Muslims want to mutilate the genitals of girls and I don't think all Muslims want to murder and rape and crazily behead everything they see. Such practices, and others mentioned in this thread, are abhorrent and barbaric and deserve nothing but contempt and disgust, no matter who does it, whether they are Muslim or not.

This is also why it is absolutely despicable when people (I'm not talking about you) defend those disgusting things and try to twist it into freedom and liberation of some kind. It's pretty gross.
#14736282
There is a particular saying in English "you are singing to the choir." A religion itself isn't necessarily feminist or anti-feminist: poor treatment of women occurs in the Bible as it does in the Quran and other religious texts. I've pointed out for years that Syria made impressive strides for women before the Western-backed Sunni terrorists wrecked the place. A country like Pakistan can indeed elect a female leader despite being Muslim-majority. My point is that Islam is not fundamentally feminist, but Muslims can be feminists depending on how they act, just like how Christianity is not fundamentally feminist, but Christians can be.

True. However most posts here are quite clearly pointing and generalizing about Muslims rather than talking about Islam the religion it self.
So my point still stands in regards of the generalizations made here and in other threats as well in general . (not talking about you).

So I think you are perhaps being too defensive over nothing. I don't think all Muslims want to mutilate the genitals of girls and I don't think all Muslims want to murder and rape and crazily behead everything they see.

Ofcourse i will be defensive, and infact i should be quite angry if i didn't get used to the regular bullshit being said all over.
There is a huge difference between Islamic country and Muslim country. One refers to a country that follows strict Islamic scripture, or atleast some type of twisted interpertation of as in most cases. And between a Muslim country which refers to a country the has majority population of Muslims.
So when its said that "Muslim countries" have something, it doesn't talk about the religion or the culture or such things in that country, it rather says the muslims have that.

Such practices, and others mentioned in this thread, are abhorrent and barbaric and deserve nothing but contempt and disgust, no matter who does it, whether they are Muslim or not.

True.
And as i stated many times, when someone wants to condemn such crimes, he or she should first identify who is doing it and condemn them. Because i assure you the only ones doing it are all either western allies or western backed terror groups. And the people being painted with these crimes tend to be the ones either the victims of it or being the ones fighting against those who commit it.

And in a general statement, i hell aint going to stand by quite when my people are included under an accusation and held responsible for crimes that not only we didn't do but also done by people who their entire foreign policy is centered around how its ok to butcher us whether men or women, grown ups or children, all alike because we're "infidels".
#14736321
Look, Mo the Prophet gave us the hip & happening hijab-feminist fourteen hundred years ago. While he was drenched in the blood and gore of his enemies, he already foresaw Muslimas surfing in their burkhinis on the beaches of Australia. The dude was simply a visionary prophet. When he took a break from enslaving entire tribes the man actually invented the first menstrual pad (to great risk of his own).

What people don't know is that the push-up bra actually has medical value and that the idea was first discovered in an ancient parchment found in a cache of fourteen hundred year old Q'uranic documents. Some believe Mo was the author of these priceless historical artefacts. And I could go on and on!
#14736652
Having said that, the sordid aspect of reductive porn may be enticing to others, and if it causes no harm

Bulaba Jones wrote:Very quirky, entertaining thread. "Men are the evil sex," "Islam is feminist," genital mutilation is empowering/for the benefit of women (how wonderfully progressive), reported rates of crime being lower = some kind of selling point, women having restrictions imposed on them like clothing/public behavior/interacting with men is feminist and progressive, etc.

Very funny thread! :up:



It is also not uncommon in many rural areas in the MENA regions, perhaps most notoriously in the media would be Pakistan, for family members to be raped as punishment if one of them reports an initial rape. Mukhtar Mai might be one example people have heard of.

What gave you the idea that I'm "progressive"?
#14736672
Let's not forget the progressive provision for multiple wives which lets women share the odious burden of procreation just as medical insurance shares the risk of illness amongst the many...how could any religion be more supportive of feminism?
#14736677
Fucking hell, that is one of the most retarded articles I have ever had the displeasure to read, and I'm a feminist. I thought the platform to voice this sex-negative bollocks had vanished with the end of the second wave. I'm not entirely convinced this article isn't satire.

Female empowerment allows women to have the liberty to do as they are pleased without judgement. The last thing feminism needs is a shaming movement within telling women to put more clothes on and respect themselves...
#14736685
Rich wrote:Most women have a submissive tendency. This is the problem of feminism. The fundamental problem of feminism is not men but women. The large majority of women are heterosexual, or mostly heterosexual even if a lot are a bit bi. Most women are attracted to powerful men. Feminists often try and dress up their submission as a form of feminist empowerment.

My my, and I thought the article was the biggest source of nonsense on this thread. This paragraph trumps it with pure horseshit.

On women's submissive tendency - it's not a female phenomenon, it's a social construct dating thousands of years.

Margaret Atwood put it best - "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men with kill them."

If women dare be assertive then if they aren't killed or assaulted they are shamed by men and called "bitch", "bossy", "moody", "cow" etc.

On women's attraction to powerful men - again rubbish as some women aren't attracted to men at all. Psychological research has shown two and only two factors that are attractive to all straight women: confidence and social prestige. Even the latter factor varies massively dependent on context: a brilliant tennis player has loads of prestige with fellow players and fan but none with nerdy women into manga.

I cut out your last bit because it was too white nationalist for my liking.
#14736836
I've long ago stopped reading anything from the Huffington Post. Their leftist propaganda went from silly to fanatical, and that was quite enough for me.

We all know and understand the degrading and slave-like manner in which Muslim men treat their women. It's fact and doesn't need explaining, just depicting it will illustrate the truth.
#14736847
Nattering Nabob wrote:Let's not forget the progressive provision for multiple wives which lets women share the odious burden of procreation just as medical insurance shares the risk of illness amongst the many...how could any religion be more supportive of feminism?

Polyamory isn't inherently bad per se, many cultures have practiced forms of polygamy however the husband is expected to support and protect the wives who's hand in marriage he's given.

I'd say the hook up culture in the west is much more degrading of women than Christian or Muslim polygamy, turning women into a consumerist commodity, much lower than the status of a bride, or even a concubine.
#14736851
Syph wrote:My my, and I thought the article was the biggest source of nonsense on this thread. This paragraph trumps it with pure horseshit.

On women's submissive tendency - it's not a female phenomenon, it's a social construct dating thousands of years.

Margaret Atwood put it best - "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men with kill them."

If women dare be assertive then if they aren't killed or assaulted they are shamed by men and called "bitch", "bossy", "moody", "cow" etc.

On women's attraction to powerful men - again rubbish as some women aren't attracted to men at all. Psychological research has shown two and only two factors that are attractive to all straight women: confidence and social prestige. Even the latter factor varies massively dependent on context: a brilliant tennis player has loads of prestige with fellow players and fan but none with nerdy women into manga.

I cut out your last bit because it was too white nationalist for my liking.

Sorry your statement is false, the idea that all variances in gender behavior are 'constructed' is pretty mythological, contradicting biology in both humans and animals; the psychology book "The Moral Animal" does a good job explaining the role that instincts play in subconscious behaviors, such as women preferring strong or assertive men to weak and spineless.

Likewise, while women are perceived as 'weaker', I'd say that arguably even historically women are stronger than men in 'indirect' conflict and resolution, relying more on wit and social intuition than force.

Likely this is why in less-developed cultures where warfare and violence are more common women are considered lower than men.

In reality though your post illustrates the problems with disillusion Western "feminism", encouraging women to lower themselves and behave more barbaric, rather than be higher, as that which arguably makes women higher on the evolutionary 'hierarchy' is their ability to accomplish tasks demurely rather than angrily.

As you mentioned, a frail woman could potentially disarm a man powerful enough to kill her by a well-timed laugh, why would you have women throw away their moral superiority and become sluts?
#14737556
Scheherazade wrote:Sorry your statement is false, the idea that all variances in gender behavior are 'constructed' is pretty mythological, contradicting biology in both humans and animals; the psychology book "The Moral Animal" does a good job explaining the role that instincts play in subconscious behaviors, such as women preferring strong or assertive men to weak and spineless.

I really hope you realise that evolutionary psychology is a backward science in both meanings of the word. It starts at an end-point (i.e. human behaviour) and gives the evolutionary psychologist full fictional discretion to make up an explanation (usually to fit the researcher's beliefs). The whole field of evo-psych is closer to philosophy than science.

Scheherazade wrote:Likewise, while women are perceived as 'weaker', I'd say that arguably even historically women are stronger than men in 'indirect' conflict and resolution, relying more on wit and social intuition than force.

Both of these statements are equally meaningless. They are not remotely useful (or true) statements

Scheherazade wrote:Likely this is why in less-developed cultures where warfare and violence are more common women are considered lower than men.

It isn't the prevalence of violence, per se. It's the presence of surplus (i.e. surplus food) through human labour. Most men are physically stronger than most women so they make better working the plough. This was the beginning of the objectification of women.

Scheherazade wrote:In reality though your post illustrates the problems with disillusion Western "feminism", encouraging women to lower themselves and behave more barbaric, rather than be higher, as that which arguably makes women higher on the evolutionary 'hierarchy' is their ability to accomplish tasks demurely rather than angrily.

As you mentioned, a frail woman could potentially disarm a man powerful enough to kill her by a well-timed laugh, why would you have women throw away their moral superiority and become sluts?

I can't help you if you think sexual primacy is a bad thing. If that is part of your values then fine but I am sex-positive and see nothing barbaric in the liberty to choose who/how/when and where to have sex. I see it as returning to the egalitarian state of society in pre-agriculture times.
#14738168
Scheherazade wrote:Women are the less evil and rapacious of the sexes, so like it or not objectification of men isn't as much of a problem.


Women have historically had little to no control over much of anything if a man wanted otherwise. In Muslim culture, this meant men began forcing the women they control to wear garments that hide their bodies from the prying eyes of other men. If she didn't comply, the men would kill her. Feminism!

Now Muslim women say "it's my choice to wear this!". Not much of a "choice" if you've been conditioned since birth to think that this is the way a "good" woman should dress in public or a fake "god" men made up would burn your soul in hell for eternity. Feminism!

In Muslim culture, if you're a woman and you don't want to wear a hijab/niqab/burka you can be put to death. In Western culture, if you're a woman and you want to dress head to toe in clothing OR you want to wear a bikini then that's your choice by law.

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