[Besoeker]

I agree that Aristotle is irrelevant, but B0ycey brought it up and must think otherwise. The atheist always want to explain nature without giving any credit to the Creator of it all. That is also the reason why they invented the evolution theory with its billions of year of past history and a "big bang" instead of accepting the beginning of our physical universe by the eternal Spirit.

Why should I, or anyone else accept that the supernatural eternal spirit, of which there is not one shred of evidence, created the universe?I accept that scientists don't have all the answers. Your supernatural entity has none of them.

[Hindsite]

Why should I, or anyone else accept that the supernatural eternal spirit, of which there is not one shred of evidence, created the universe?I accept that scientists don't have all the answers. Your supernatural entity has none of them.

Because you would be a fool not to.

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
(Psalm 14:1-3)

Do you really believe that the earth came into existence by chance and you came form a rock? I don't think anyone with common sense would believe that on his own. To get that stupid you have to be taught it in school.

Everyone can see, and science has repeatedly confirmed, that living things come from other living things. This is called the "Law of Biogenesis." Evolutionists ignore that simple law, because they do not want to be accountable to their creator God, the eternal living Spirit.

It is up to you if you want to believe that evolution fairy tale or believe the truth about your creator God, as told in the Holy Bible. It is up to you to convince yourself one way or the other. It is not up to me to convince anyone. You can think of me as just a man trying to lead horses to living water so they can drink if they wish, nothing more.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[Nonsense]

Because you would be a fool not to.

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
(Psalm 14:1-3)

Do you really believe that the earth came into existence by chance and you came form a rock? I don't think anyone with common sense would believe that on his own. To get that stupid you have to be taught it in school.

Everyone can see, and science has repeatedly confirmed, that living things come from other living things. This is called the "Law of Biogenesis." Evolutionists ignore that simple law, because they do not want to be accountable to their creator God, the eternal living Spirit.

It is up to you if you want to believe that evolution fairy tale or believe the truth about your creator God, as told in the Holy Bible. It is up to you to convince yourself one way or the other. It is not up to me to convince anyone. You can think of me as just a man trying to lead horses to living water so they can drink if they wish, nothing more.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

I don't know what you are taking or where you escaped from, but, if I were you, I would keep out of sight, less some policeman comes along, takes a look at you, 'certifies' you, gets you bundled into a police van & off to the 'funny' farm.

[Hindsite]

I don't know what you are taking or where you escaped from, but, if I were you, I would keep out of sight, less some policeman comes along, takes a look at you, 'certifies' you, gets you bundled into a police van & off to the 'funny' farm.

You picked a good name for yourself, Nonsense.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[Hong Wu]

I imagine the issue with helping people is that external acts can be a manifestation of a genuine desire to help, they don't necessarily mean anything in of themselves. A person who lacks any desire to help anyone in need is probably not close to God. But a requirement to help set by others is not a good idea and if you are after someone for not helping then that is what you are doing, trying to coerce them to give.

In some eastern philosophies a different approach is recognized to be good for different people, I think this is probably true and is an idea that tends to be lacking in Christianity and Islam.

[Frollein]

Look Besoeker, it's easy: you should believe in the factual existence of an imaginary supernatural being, because there exists a book for which humans have assigned authorship to that imaginary being.

You know, Hindsite, you may want to take a course in logic: an artefact claimed to be made by an imaginary being can't prove the existence of that imaginary being, because that claim itself can't be proven.

Truth is that the bible was written by humans with an overactive imagination. What you've been quoting for pages here is known as hearsay: you can't prove that those words you quote were in fact spoken by god and not written down by a human and later ascribed to god.

[Drlee]

However, this forum is intended specifically as an area for those with religious belief to discuss religion without threads being derailed by atheist arguments. Please respect that.

Go away.

[Frollein]

Everybody was discussing the OPs proposal - me included - until Hindsite started his "convert or suffer in hell" crusade. I'll stop the moment he does.

If you don't want to read my posts, you could just, y'know, skip them. It's what I do with SO's posts. Or ask noemon to bring back the ignore function. Otherwise, you'll just have to put up with the fact that the world is full of not nice people.

[Hindsite]

You know, Hindsite, you may want to take a course in logic: an artefact claimed to be made by an imaginary being can't prove the existence of that imaginary being, because that claim itself can't be proven.

Truth is that the bible was written by humans with an overactive imagination. What you've been quoting for pages here is known as hearsay: you can't prove that those words you quote were in fact spoken by god and not written down by a human and later ascribed to god.

That is your opinion, but it does not make it true. You have made your decision to eat, drank, and be merry today, for tomorrow you may die and that is all there is to life. We Christians have a greater hope of being resurrected to live in Paradise forever. I prefer my hope to your no hope. May God help you.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[jakell]

Everybody was discussing the OPs proposal - me included - until Hindsite started his "convert or suffer in hell" crusade. I'll stop the moment he does.

If you don't want to read my posts, you could just, y'know, skip them. It's what I do with SO's posts. Or ask noemon to bring back the ignore function. Otherwise, you'll just have to put up with the fact that the world is full of not nice people.

You would think a Christian would more than happy to talk about Jesus' nature (the thread topic), but Hindsite hasn't been near it yet, not even tangentially. It's rather odd really and his concentration on science refutation reminds me of some Muslims I've come across online.

[Hindsite]

You would think a Christian would more than happy to talk about Jesus' nature (the thread topic), but Hindsite hasn't been near it yet, not even tangentially. It's rather odd really and his concentration on science refutation reminds me of some Muslims I've come across online.

You apparently haven't read all my posts.
But I will forgive you.
Jesus died and bled real blood just like a human.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[Drlee]

Everybody was discussing the OPs proposal - me included - until Hindsite started his "convert or suffer in hell" crusade. I'll stop the moment he does.

That is the problem, isn't it. But give me some credit. I was discussing the OPs premise and, as usual, along comes some fundamentalist and sends the atheists into orbit.

But consider Froellein. Whenever this happens the atheists run for the easy target. Immediately out comes the "imaginary friend" rhetoric and we are in the mud again. Religious people find this profoundly offensive and you know it. It is your intention to offend to religious people.

So then I bring up the fact that there are people who are doing what we believe to be Gods will by working with the poor and oppressed and the atheists get offended because they feel left out. So now the subject becomes whether or not I am a bad person for bringing it up. Or my motives are questioned even though I very clearly posted them.

People do stuff because they are religious. The say beads, spin prayer wheels, eat rice, don't eat pork and wear masks. Some of us do charity work because we believe that our God wants us to do it. We believe in His word and we want to live it. We believe we are called by Him to do it. We believe it is not optional but rather following (more or less effectively) his commandments. The OP posits that the west needs a more human Jesus. Jesus is at his most human when he is seen as a shepherd rather than a king. So jakell I am happy to discuss it with you. Ignore him.

So the west has plenty of examples of Jesus humanity at work. Those of us who are doing it are not much motivated by shouting it from the rooftops. When we are asked, as in this thread, we are happy to answer and explain. But I did not come here to talk about flying spaghetti monsters, imaginary friends, or engage in any other kind of grade school argument. Those kinds of arguments are not worthy of my time and do nothing but derail the thread.

Hindsite represents a very disturbing branch of Christianity. Fortunately his ideas are on the wane and will soon die out. What remains to be seen is whether they take the who shooting match down with him.

[Hindsite]

Hindsite represents a very disturbing branch of Christianity. Fortunately his ideas are on the wane and will soon die out. What remains to be seen is whether they take the who shooting match down with him.

I come from the Baptist branch of Christianity, but I do not claim to represent that branch, What disturbs you is that I disagree with some of your preconceived biases of how all Christians should act. You seem to forget that the hand is just as much a part of the body of Christ as the foot. All parts, performing different tasks, are needed to complete the body with Christ as the head.

I am not called to perform the same task assigned to another. There is no shooting match, so don't judge or be disturbed by my actions. God is in control and has a purpose for all to work together for good.
God bless.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[mikema63]

So what part of jesus has the function of shitting on the poor? Are you Jesus' ass?

[Frollein]

So then I bring up the fact that there are people who are doing what we believe to be Gods will by working with the poor and oppressed and the atheists get offended because they feel left out. So now the subject becomes whether or not I am a bad person for bringing it up. Or my motives are questioned even though I very clearly posted them.

I think you were reading my post with the expectation to be offended and, unsurprisingly, found offense. I basically called you a good man for doing what you do, and merely asked why you find it necessary to give your faith as the reason to do it - because I think you'd do just the same if you weren't religious at all. That's my point: that virtuousness isn't dependent on religion. It had nothing to do with feeling left out. I don't feel the urge to feed the masses, I don't like humans in general (I like people on an individual basis). I questioned the causality of faith and being a decent person, not your faith or you personally.

[Besoeker]

Because you would be a fool not to.

The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one.
(Psalm 14:1-3)

You really didn't answer my simple question. Why believe it all came about by the hand of a supernatural entity of which there is not a shred of evidence?


I don't claim to know how the Earth, our solar system came into existence. But you appear to express certainty that it was your supernatural god with no facts to support even the existence of such a being.


About 99% of all species that ever existed became extinct. Why would a supernatural omnipotent creator cerat them then consign them to the trash can?
Care to explain away that one?

Hmm....fairy tale, eh?
Speciation is one step in the evolution process. It has been observed. I and others have cited articles.

[Frollein]

That is your opinion, but it does not make it true.

And you stated your opinion, but you also claimed it to be fact, and if you make that claim, you have to prove it, or retract the claim. As I just explained to you, the bible itself isn't proof, since every claim therein cannot be verified, especially not the claim that it contains words spoken by a supernatural being.

You may well believe, hope, and pray; what you cannot do is prove that any of this is fact, and what's worse, the claims made in your holy book also don't hold water when it comes to proving their viability. It's one thing to take Jesus as a role model for altruistic behavior, and quite another to claim that a supernatural being created the universe in six days, or flooded the whole world in forty days. Completely different categories.

You have made your decision to eat, drank, and be merry today, for tomorrow you may die and that is all there is to life.

Please don't presume to know what I believe to be the purpose of life.

We Christians have a greater hope of being resurrected to live in Paradise forever. I prefer my hope to your no hope.

Good for you. Some people need that hope.

May God help you.

There is no god.

[Hindsite]

You really didn't answer my simple question. Why believe it all came about by the hand of a supernatural entity of which there is not a shred of evidence?


I don't claim to know how the Earth, our solar system came into existence. But you appear to express certainty that it was your supernatural god with no facts to support even the existence of such a being.


About 99% of all species that ever existed became extinct. Why would a supernatural omnipotent creator cerat them then consign them to the trash can?
Care to explain away that one?

Hmm....fairy tale, eh?
Speciation is one step in the evolution process. It has been observed. I and others have cited articles.

There is a lot of evidence, but I don't have the time and space to list all of it.
Since God is invisible, faith is necessary.
Where did you get the 99% figure. I am sure that can't be right.
Speciation was known long before evolution hijacked it. It was mainly known as selective breeding by most.
If you could be more specific and give me accurate information I might have the time and space to answer one question at a time.
But I need to eat, shave, and take a shower to wash my hair and body. I don't wear a beard anymore.

[Drlee]

I basically called you a good man for doing what you do, and merely asked why you find it necessary to give your faith as the reason to do it - because I think you'd do just the same if you weren't religious at all.

Well. I can't really say. I have always been a Christian of one kind or another and have frequently performed acts of compassion. Here is what I can say. In the past 10 years (and remember for me that is from 55 years old on) I have become less concerned with the administrivia of denominational religion and more interested in the essence of Jesus' teachings. As I have gotten older I have realized how much life can hurt people and how hard it is for some people to catch a break. There really are "lost souls" out there. As (I by faith believe) I get closer to my own end I want to try and use the time I have left to do some serious good. I believe that God will like this but I do not believe it is necessary for my eternal reward at this point.

But I am the one here repeatedly asserting that, as I see what Christ taught, you do not have to be a Christian to get into heaven. Good people can rely on a just God. Christianity is my path to understand Gods will.

[Besoeker]

There is a lot of evidence, but I don't have the time and space to list all of it.

If you coult list any of it, it would be a start.

Since God is invisible, faith is necessary.

Or as Samuel Clemens put it.....

Where did you get the 99% figure. I am sure that can't be right.

A link - one of many:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=99+of+species+are+extinct&oq=99%25+of+species&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.16017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Speciation was known long before evolution hijacked it. It was mainly known as selective breeding by most.

It is not selective breeding.
I and another have given you links.

If you could be more specific and give me accurate information

If you want to give credence to that accusation, cite anything anything inaccurate that I have posted.

Jeremiah 5:21 ‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’.