This sort of thing confuses me. As I understand it, good works alone don't get you into heaven, one has to have faith too, so good people who are not Christians don't go to heaven.
This is true. The concept of "saved by grace" is very much misunderstood in my opinion and witnessed by the posts of one individual here. One way of looking at grace is to consider this. No person is capable of meeting God's standard. But even if he did it would still require a "favor" from God to have eternal life. Crass as it sounds, an analogy might be to say that though I am rich enough I still must have an invitation to join the country club. I can earn the money but the membership committee can still refuse me membership. I am a member by their good graces lest I take credit for my membership myself.
I realise that this seems pretty mean to Christians who have an emotional attachment to non-Christians, it's a hard message. Fortunately I don't subscribe to any particular religion and therefore can be a little more objective, therefore the above message doesn't frustrate me in any way.
It is mean. And if God subscribed to the Calvinist view that Potemkin pointed out would (in my opinion) fly in the face of the concept of a loving and just God. It would be as if God created some sort of massive game in which only the first-person players matter. There is this puzzling verse in the Bible that I have never in 66 years heard explained in a protestant church:
22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Is there wiggle-room there to conclude that someone who keeps Jesus commands is in the club? I think so. There are other references that conclude this too. I am not alone. This is what Pope Frances recently said:
“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone,” the pope told worshipers at morning Mass on Wednesday. “‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”
Francis continued, “We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
So where do Christians get into trouble if it is not strictly necessary to be one to get into heaven? It would be if one knew Jesus teachings and rejected them. I would go so far as to say that someone who knew that Jesus commanded him to care for the poor and then deliberately refused to do it would be on really shaky ground for sure.
I suppose that, in considering religions, I gravitate towards and favour the simpler messages, and Christianity is fairly woolly compared to Islam for instance. Messages such as the one above would stick in my mind as being pretty central. Islam is easier to understand, even though it is pretty harsh, contradictory messages are resolved by the principle of abrogation, there's no such yardstick in the bible (that I know of) leaving more room for personal choice and personal choice does seem to be a component of Christianity.
Here is the thing with seekers and converts. Most of them are responding to a need they feel for something more. The easiest message is one that gives you a road map to salvation. So converts tend to gravitate to those religions (or denominations) that are rule-driven. Just obey these rules and you will be saved.
Take the issue of tithing. One can find a bible reference for tithing. Giving 1/10th of what one earns to the church. (Specifically the church. Not poor people or other charities that do Gods work with the poor or oppressed.) Well this is easy, isn't it. The church wins and I answer the hardest question in religion...."How much should I do to imitate Christ". Too easy. Follow the 10 commandments, give 10% and Bobs your uncle.....saved. I suppose this is a good start. I suppose it is where most Christians start. Or in Islam, ticking off all of the rules there as well. But as one matures in his faith one runs into this:
Jesus said unto him, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what thou hast and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven; and come and follow Me.”
So how much is enough?
I believe that the above is a sarcastic remark on the part of Christ. He had said, time and again, that man cannot be perfect. So when asked (yet again) how to be perfect he deliberately made this scoffing remark. In this sarcastic comment he said (yet again) you can't do it. Or at least that very few people could do it.
When we Christians see this verse we have the same reaction as the guy to whom it was said. We are disappointed that we can't (or won't) do it and go away discouraged. We shouldn't. I believe that Christ is calling us to do what we feel we can. He does not call a father to walk away from his wife and children, leaving them broke and without his care to follow Jesus as one could conclude from this verse. Of course not. Caring for his wife and children to his best ability IS doing God's will in the first place.
In digging deeper, at least for me, I have found the simple message that you say appeals to you. It goes something like this:
Jesus came to set the table right. By dying for us (and by us I believe all people) he has paid the price for our sins. Then he told us how to live the way he wanted us to:
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
There you have it. It could not be simpler.
You don't have to do this every second of the day. Think of God as a Jewish mother if you like...."You don't call, you don't write, would it kill you to call once in a while?"
Then, because you want to please God and keep his most important commandments ("All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments") do some good things for other people.
If you want to go to church then go. If you want to give 10% to the church, go ahead. Churches are far more than pretty buildings. Much of the good work that is going on in this country comes from them. There is a church in my town that provides portable showers for homeless people. I hope they realize what a wonderful act of kindness this is.
But if you don't want to go to an organized church then pick out what you are going to do to honor God's commandments. Help the poor. Feed hungry people. Give clean socks to homeless people. Whatever. Just be aware of why you are doing it.
At the end of the day it boils down to this. If God doesn't exist and you die after doing good stuff for others, you will have left the place better than you found it. You will be over so there will be no feelings for you to have about it but others will regret your death. If God does exist you will be with him. Your reward will be whatever He decides is right and proper for you. We Christians believe it is everlasting life.
- By FiveofSwords
- By wat0n