[Oxymoron]

I think whether they exaggerated a period of heavy flooding in order to make a good story is not very important. To me, these attacks are really about justifying social liberalism, which is really just an abrogation of basic principles (traditionally called God's law or dharma) that is only possible because of modern technologies but the presence of these technologies does not make that abrogation philosophically sound unless one also accepts their own insignificance, which ultimately in turn leads back to an acceptance of the legitimacy of natural law arguments and therefore makes promoting social liberalism moot.

The ultimate distinction, for me, is that if you believe in the metaphysical existence of things like souls, the opposition to something like scientism is not similarly moot if the objective is to try and awaken insight in other people. This is in my mind what religion can be about doing when it isn't being used as a political vehicle.

You are Chinese?

[Hong Wu]

You are Chinese?

No, I just live in east Asia.

[Perkwunos]

Anyway a zoo is an illogical way to estimate the numbers of animals that could fit on the 196,560 square feet of living space, because the majority of those animals in the zoo are grown and must be given more space to avoid lawsuits from the Humane Society. I am sure you must know how those liberals are about their perceived cruelty to animals.

The problem here—one of the problems; there are quite a few actually—is that the animals wouldn't just have a couple of little boo-boos at the end of the journey:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noa ... tml#caring

Ex:

"Many animals require their food to be fresh. Many snakes, for example, will eat only live foods (or at least warm and moving). Parasitoid wasps only attack living prey. Most spiders locate their prey by the vibrations it produces. [Foelix, 1996] Most herbivorous insects require fresh food. Aphids, in fact, are physically incapable of sucking from wilted leaves. How did Noah keep all these food supplies fresh?"

Oh and by the way, let's not forget that the flood story doesn't only have implications for fauna:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noa ... l#survival

Ex:

• Many plants (seeds and all) would be killed by being submerged for a few months. This is especially true if they were soaked in salt water. Some mangroves, coconuts, and other coastal species have seed which could be expected to survive the Flood itself, but what of the rest?
• Most seeds would have been buried under many feet (even miles) of sediment. This is deep enough to prevent spouting.
• Most plants require established soils to grow--soils which would have been stripped by the Flood.
• Some plants germinate only after being exposed to fire or after being ingested by animals; these conditions would be rare (to put it mildly) after the Flood.
• Noah could not have gathered seeds for all plants because not all plants produce seeds, and a variety of plant seeds can't survive a year before germinating. [Garwood, 1989; Benzing, 1990; Densmore & Zasada, 1983] Also, how did he distribute them all over the world?

[Godstud]

You did not, regardless it was a worldwide flood as it affected the whole world. Stop pretending this did not happen because of your preconceived notions.

Take your head out of your ass and read the link I posted, instead of saying stupid shit.

The scientific version of Noah's flood actually starts long before that, back during the last great glaciation some 20,000 years ago.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 102813115/

Recorded history does not go back 20,000 years. A flood in the Mediterranean Sea would have no impact on most of Asia, North America, or South America. That is not, no matter how you say it, WORLD-WIDE.

[anasawad]

Most of human civilization in ancient times was on the Nile and Mesopotamia. If those 2 places received large scale floods in recorded history then it is no doubt that large floods happened before. And considering that historically a large enough flood could end a nation since most nations were in river valleys specially since first civilization grew in Mesopotamia which is literally defined as the land between rivers.
So.....the great flood. ^^^

Ooh and anther thing, for Noah's arch. since human civilization or atleast city building started around 10000 years ago, people have across the period used boats to travel in rivers. This is also according to many researches how the Egyptians transported the material to build the pyramids.
And since we do know that ancient civilizations for thousands of years have been attempting to identify weather and climate patterns in their sorrounding regions and even going for astronomy and such.
We can safely assume that they knew there are flooding seasons (there were and still are in river valley regions all around), and thus building a large enough boat to survive a flood and carry along with you a few pairs of domesticated animals and plants and all the things you need (domestication started way before that) for a small group isn't at all unreasonable to have happened.
(is it have happened or have had happened ? )


EDIT: forgot to add this but when said flooding seasons, i meant not only annual flooding season but also across the years. For example in Al-Assi river in Lebanon, it will usually have heavy flow and become unstable for activities at the beginning of the spring since not only its the raining season but also because all the ice and snow formed in the previous couple of months would start melting.
But it also experience a much heavier flow once every 14-15 years along with all the other fountains and rivers in the area unless there was a heavy drought that came to be in between which is rare.

[stephen50right]

Most of human civilization in ancient times was on the Nile and Mesopotamia. If those 2 places received large scale floods in recorded history then it is no doubt that large floods happened before. And considering that historically a large enough flood could end a nation since most nations were in river valleys specially since first civilization grew in Mesopotamia which is literally defined as the land between rivers.
So.....the great flood. ^^^

Ooh and anther thing, for Noah's arch. since human civilization or atleast city building started around 10000 years ago, people have across the period used boats to travel in rivers. This is also according to many researches how the Egyptians transported the material to build the pyramids.
And since we do know that ancient civilizations for thousands of years have been attempting to identify weather and climate patterns in their sorrounding regions and even going for astronomy and such.
We can safely assume that they knew there are flooding seasons (there were and still are in river valley regions all around), and thus building a large enough boat to survive a flood and carry along with you a few pairs of domesticated animals and plants and all the things you need (domestication started way before that) for a small group isn't at all unreasonable to have happened.
(is it have happened or have had happened ? )


EDIT: forgot to add this but when said flooding seasons, i meant not only annual flooding season but also across the years. For example in Al-Assi river in Lebanon, it will usually have heavy flow and become unstable for activities at the beginning of the spring since not only its the raining season but also because all the ice and snow formed in the previous couple of months would start melting.
But it also experience a much heavier flow once every 14-15 years along with all the other fountains and rivers in the area unless there was a heavy drought that came to be in between which is rare.

We see flooding in many parts of the world. Look at what happens once in awhile with the Mississippi River in the United States. That flooding can be brutal.

Back then everyone thought the earth was the center of the universe. We of course now know that it's not. We also know that there is absolutely no scientific evidence of a worldwide flood from that time.

Did a local area brutal flood occur? It likely did, and as in any brutal flood, the people would try to gather their animals and possessions and do what they can to get to higher ground, by boat or any means possible.

[Besoeker]

It is hard to believe someone can be so ignorant. Let me put it another way. Moses was raised an Egyptian and the Egyptian cubit, according to the "Hastings Dictionary of the Bible" is equal to 25.2 inches. That is a conversion from a cubit to inches.

1 Egyptian Cubit = 25.2 inches.

Now do you get it.

Check the following link.

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/ ... -for-them/

Shame that you resort to personal insults.
But even if your dimensions and link are correct that would amount to a bit over four acres.
A space of about four feet by three for each species and all their supplies.
I have a dog. At around 80 pounds he is quite a big chap.



Our porch which is about three times that area could nowhere near hold all his food and water for a year.
Let alone that for a lion, a rhino, a giraffe an elephant, a croc, and aligator, a pelican............
Then there is the issue of keeping meat fresh for the carnivores.

And mucking them out on a daily basis. Can you not see the holes?

[Godstud]

Religious fanatics and cultists cannot see reason, because magic... er I mean.. "Miracles".

[Besoeker]

Anyway a zoo is an illogical way to estimate the numbers of animals that could fit on the 196,560 square feet of living space,

It's a comparison, not an estimate.
Five times the number of animals plus their fodder for a year on one 1/150th of the space. And it's not just living space.

[Godstud]

Nice dog, besoeker. That's far more interesting than the pathetically lame arguments that the cultist fanatics are giving.

[jakell]

Nice dog, besoeker. That's far more interesting than the pathetically lame arguments that the cultist fanatics are giving.

That's right, arguing about the fine details and logicstics of Noah's Ark is pretty stupid, whichever direction you come at it from

Religionists (IMO) do have an excuse though because they have an emotional attachment to these matters. A so-called rationalist, especially one who does it year in year out with obsessive repetition in various locations throughout the internet would be the more suspect one.

[Besoeker]

Nice dog, besoeker. That's far more interesting than the pathetically lame arguments that the cultist fanatics are giving.

Thank you GS. He is the real deal.
And he does something a few posters here could learn from. He makes people smile.

[Besoeker]

That's right, arguing about the fine details and logicstics of Noah's Ark is pretty stupid, whichever direction you come at it from

Religionists (IMO) do have an excuse though because they have an emotional attachment to these matters. A so-called rationalist, especially one who does it year in year out with obsessive repetition in various locations throughout the internet would be the more suspect one.

Care to stick to the topic?

[Zionist Nationalist]

Creationism is just retarded and doesn't make any sense.

[MistyTiger]

You are Chinese?

No, I just live in east Asia.

I just figured this out the other day.

I miss Honisoit.

[Besoeker]

I just figured this out the other day.

I miss Honisoit.

honi soit qui mal y pense?

[Besoeker]

That's right, arguing about the fine details and logicstics of Noah's Ark is pretty stupid, whichever direction you come at it from

They are not fine details. They are major obstacles.

[jakell]

Creationism is just retarded and doesn't make and sense.

It makes sense to those who require a narrative, and this happens to be the majority of humans. I come across plenty of science enthusiasts who have no idea about the basics (which in this instance would be evolutionary theory), but still claim that science is always 'true', because they believe one narrative over another without really knowing why.

To pick an everyday example. Many many folks think they are clever in 'knowing' that the Earth goes around the Sun, not the other way around. They will insist that this is the case and that it is stupid to claim otherwise, however, when asked how this knowledge is arrived at they don't know where to begin, although a few may mumble something vague about Galileo. ie, they trust a received narrative over their own observations which tell us that it is the other way around.

[Hindsite]

Shame that you resort to personal insults.
But even if your dimensions and link are correct that would amount to a bit over four acres.
A space of about four feet by three for each species and all their supplies.
I have a dog. At around 80 pounds he is quite a big chap.

Our porch which is about three times that area could nowhere near hold all his food and water for a year.
Let alone that for a lion, a rhino, a giraffe an elephant, a croc, and aligator, a pelican............
Then there is the issue of keeping meat fresh for the carnivores.

And mucking them out on a daily basis. Can you not see the holes?

I was not resorting to personal insults.
I was just pointing out that you were ignorant on this subject. But I do not want you to remain ignorant, so I provided you with the information again.
Do you understand it now?

Comparing a zoo and your gigantic dog and their needs to the small young animals on the Ark is like comparing apples to oranges, as the saying goes. There were no OLD LARGE ANIMALS taken on the Ark. The YOUNG SMALL ANIMALS had to survive on the ark with less food and without breeding for a year. The animals would be mainly hibernating or sleeping resulting is less food needed and less pooping.

Man, use your head for a change. I don't want you to remain ignorant.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah

[Suntzu]

How big you figure a tiny baby cow is after a year.