ingliz wrote:I have noticed your posts get sillier and sillier when you are losing an argument.
It's a bad habit.
A better look is to concede gracefully and move on.
Some other reasons why Babylon being code for Rome in 1 Peter 5:13 and Revelation 17 -18 does not fit:Because Rome, with the Vatican, is home to the global system of Roman Catholicism, the identity of Babylon as the city of Rome has often gone hand-in-hand with the view that The Great Harlot represents Roman Catholicism, possibly wed with other religious systems.
The identity of Babylon with Rome has been bolstered by three events of history:
1. The fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 - In a similar way that Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and Solomon’s Temple in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Temple under Titus. This established Rome as a key enemy of Israel and Jerusalem prior to the time of John’s writing. Thus it is thought to be only natural that Babylon would be used as a code name for Rome.
2. Christian Persecution - For the early church (remembering that John wrote from exile on Patmos during the reign of Domitian), the modern-day persecutor of the saints was Rome. Although John’s prophecies concerned the time of the end, those who have sought to restrict fulfillment to his immediate audience can find no other viable candidate outside of Rome. At that time, she was indeed “the center of the world’s merchandise and the persecutor of the saints.”
3. The Reformation - When the reformers broke away from Roman Catholicism, the prophecies concerning Babylon and the Beast provided ready ammunition against Rome. By identifying the papal system and Rome with the Beast and Babylon, it could be clearly seen that Roman Catholicism was the predicted enemy of the true faith and destined for eventual destruction. Due to its great utility, this view has dominated Protestant interpretation for many years. “The Romish Church is not only accidentally and as a matter of fact, but in virtue of its very PRINCIPLE, a harlot, the metropolis of whoredom, ‘the mother of harlots’; whereas the evangelical Protestant Church is, according to her principle and fundamental creed, a chaste woman; the Reformation was a protest of the woman against the harlot.
In addition, the notion that John’s audience would have understood the imagery of Revelation (Rev. 17) as referring to the topography of Rome seems strengthened by the discovery of the Dea Roma Coin minted in A.D. 71 in Asia Minor. One side of the coin contains the portrait of the emperor. The reverse side of the coin depicts Rome, a Roman pagan goddess, sitting on seven hills seated by the waters of the Tiber River. There are obvious similarities between the Dea Roma Coin and the imagery of Revelation.
In both cases, the goddess and the harlot are seated on seven hills and are seated either on or by the waters. In addition, the name of the goddess was thought by many Romans to be Amor, which is Roma spelled backwards. Amor was the goddess of love and sexuality. Thus, both the woman on the coin and the woman in Revelation represent harlotry (Rev. 17:5). Furthermore, the coin equates Roma with the power of the Roman Empire, which was active in persecuting Christians of John’s day. The placement of Vespasian on one side of the coin and Roma on the other makes this connection. The goddess is also pictured as holding a sword, which may depict Rome’s imperial power. This imagery parallels with the woman in Revelation who is said to be drunk with the blood of the saints (Rev. 17:6).
This association sounds convincing until one studies the text of Revelation more closely.EXAMPLE 1:
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.(Revelation 17:3 NIV)
And he took me away in spirit into the desert. And I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3 Douay-Rheims Bible)
Rome or the Vatican is not located in a wilderness or a desert.EXAMPLE 2:
"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.(Revelation 17:9-10 NASB)
The mountains are to be understood in their typical Scriptural usage as denoting kingdoms (Jer. 51:25; Dan. 2:35; Zec. 4:7) and may not be related to topography at all. The Great Harlot is said to sit on these mountains. She is also said to sit on peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues (Rev. 17:15). Thus, her sitting probably speaks of the scope of her influence and control rather than a physical location.
EXAMPLE 3:
Another problem with taking Babylon to be Rome is her relatively late appearance as a major empire. The Great Harlot is said to be “that great city” (Rev. 17:18). She is also said to be the “mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth” (Rev. 17:5). She is the source and origin of harlotry (spiritual idolatry) and abominations. Rome can hardly be said to occupy this role because harlotry occurs in the Biblical record far in advance of the time of Rome. Those who identify Babylon as Rome often point to the undeniable similarities between the history and practices of Roman Catholicism and what is said concerning The Great Harlot. But does this mean that Babylon is Rome? Might it not simply reflect the truth that Rome is one of the Harlot’s most influential daughter harlots of history?
Rome cannot provide the necessary support for the ride of the Harlot throughout history as implied by the seven heads on the Beast she rides (Rev. 17:3 and Rev. 13:1) which are associated with the dragon (Rev. 12:3) who has ruled kingdoms throughout history (Luke 4:5-6; John 12:31; 1 John. 5:19).
- By Pants-of-dog