Is there any evidence (let alone proof) that religions mellow after 1900 years. - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14900981
I think the distinction between social progress and economic progress is somewhat arbitrary and artificial.

For example, indigenous issues often involve social progress issues such as racism and economic issues such as land ownership and modern colonialism. In order to achieve any real change, both need to be addressed and challenged. Or anti-blackness, which also has very real economic implications.

I think this division between social and economic progress has its roots in gender movements, since there are very little economic issues related to LGBT people and feminism. And I think we do ourselves a disservice by assuming that all social progress movements have this same distance from economic progress.
#14900982
Potemkin wrote:Yup, you got it. Guess which of those categories I care most about. ;)


I am not ready to be a communist, but I agree if you have enough money you don’t need to consider social laws. They are for the rift raff.
#14900984
Pants-of-dog wrote:I think the distinction between social progress and economic progress is somewhat arbitrary and artificial.

For example, indigenous issues often involve social progress issues such as racism and economic issues such as land ownership and modern colonialism. In order to achieve any real change, both need to be addressed and challenged. Or anti-blackness, which also has very real economic implications.

I think this division between social and economic progress has its roots in gender movements, since there are very little economic issues related to LGBT people and feminism. And I think we do ourselves a disservice by assuming that all social progress movements have this same distance from economic progress.

This is true in principle. After all, the main point of overthrowing the capitalist mode of production is to enable most people to be able to achieve a better life for themselves, not just economically but socially and morally. However, there is a danger that this sort of 'identity' politics can become a sideshow, a way for the ruling class to distract the attention of potential troublemakers away from the economic issues and towards issues which will, ultimately, merely provide window-dressing for the continued economic exploitation of the majority of the population under globalised capitalism. In other words, these two aspects of 'progress' - the identity aspect and the economic aspect - have already been separated by the ruling elite, with the willing and enthusiastic assistance of the middle-class SJWs of this world. Smoke and mirrors, PoD, smoke and mirrors.
#14900985
Potemkin wrote:Yup, you got it. Guess which of those categories I care most about. ;)
Indeed, this is why for myself I see there needs to be a political movement organized into a party that aspires to restore the Christian traditional values yet economically is socially 'progressive'. Who says you cant take best things from communist. Their economic aspirations are essentially Christian values anyhow. ;)

Judging by the modern "alt-right" and "populist" they have not even begun to consider seriously the economic aspect of their movement. Most of them are to stuck in "neo-Nazi" traditional outlook of evil Communist thus they think of such ideas as tarnished. This is where their downfall is. Besides whole bunch of them are atheist anyways, who as a hobby like to indulge in creepy pagan rituals.
#14900986
Potemkin wrote:This is true in principle. After all, the main point of overthrowing the capitalist mode of production is to enable most people to be able to achieve a better life for themselves, not just economically but socially and morally. However, there is a danger that this sort of 'identity' politics can become a sideshow, a way for the ruling class to distract the attention of potential troublemakers away from the economic issues and towards issues which will, ultimately, merely provide window-dressing for the continued economic exploitation of the majority of the population under globalised capitalism. In other words, these two aspects of 'progress' - the identity aspect and the economic aspect - have already been separated by the ruling elite, with the willing and enthusiastic assistance of the middle-class SJWs of this world. Smoke and mirrors, PoD, smoke and mirrors.


To be honest, I see this as a bit of a conspiracy theory that my fellow travelers have adopted.

First of all, there is little reason for the elite to do this, since the same distraction could be done with much simpler means, like monster truck shows.

Secondly, it assumes that LGBT people, blacks, and other minorities have no agency and that all their struggles for equality were not due to their hard work but to some shadowy cabal of anti-communists.

Third, there is no material evidence for this, and Marxist analysis should require some sort of material evidence.

I think it would be more correct to say that those identity movements that do not challenge the economic status quo are not opposed, while those that do challenge capitalism are fought vociferously. This is why LGBT issues have shot forward recently while indigenous issues are still stuck in the 1870s.
#14900988
Pants-of-dog wrote:To be honest, I see this as a bit of a conspiracy theory that my fellow travelers have adopted.

First of all, there is little reason for the elite to do this, since the same distraction could be done with much simpler means, like monster truck shows.

Secondly, it assumes that LGBT people, blacks, and other minorities have no agency and that all their struggles for equality were not due to their hard work but to some shadowy cabal of anti-communists.

Third, there is no material evidence for this, and Marxist analysis should require some sort of material evidence.

I think it would be more correct to say that those identity movements that do not challenge the economic status quo are not opposed, while those that do challenge capitalism are fought vociferously. This is why LGBT issues have shot forward recently while indigenous issues are still stuck in the 1870s.

Indeed, but this simply tells you that the only aspect of 'progress' which the ruling elite care about is the economic aspect. Where there is overlap between the identity aspect and the economic aspect, there is brutal oppression; but where there is little or no overlap then the ruling elite not only don't oppose such progress, they smile benignly over it. The really shameful aspect of all this is the way the middle-class SJWs tend to play along with it - they vociferously defend LBGT rights, at little or no risk to themselves, while tending to ignore indigenous rights, which does involve considerable personal risk, precisely because there are economic issues at play.
#14902261
The world´s most notorious atheist has an easter-message:

Atheist Richard Dawkins warns against celebrating the alleged demise of Christianity in Europe

Richard Dawkins, prominent atheist author and evolutionary biologist, has warned against celebrating what some call the demise of Christianity in Europe.

Dawkins tweeted Wednesday: “Before we rejoice at the death throes of the relatively benign Christian religion, let’s not forget Hilaire Belloc’s menacing rhyme: ‘Always keep a-hold of nurse – For fear of finding something worse.’”

The outspoken atheist linked to an article by The Guardian titled “’Christianity as default is gone’: the rise of a non-Christian Europe,” which starkly illustrated research showing a majority of young people in a dozen countries do not follow a religion.

The article highlighted the “dying” Christian faith and the sharp rise of young Muslims.

“The Muslim birthrate is higher than the general population, and they have much higher [religious] retention rates,” Stephen Bullivant, a professor of theology and religion at St. Mary’s University in London told The Guardian.

Dawkins, who called himself “an equal opportunity religion basher” on Fox News, also had an event cancelled in Berkeley for his criticism of Islam.

Dawkins has previously voiced concern over the decline of the Christian faith, “in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse,” which he echoed in his tweet.

The atheist speaker warned that Islam as a religion poses a more dangerous threat than any other, pointing to the fact that moderate Muslims suffer more at the hands of Islam than anyone else, The Christian Post reported.

"It's tempting to say all religions are bad, and I do say all religions are bad, but it's a worse temptation to say all religions are equally bad because they're not," Dawkins said. "If you look at the actual impact that different religions have on the world it's quite apparent that at present the most evil religion in the world has to be Islam.”
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