SolarCross wrote:It isn't quite the case that the sustained surge in prosperity which Europeans have enjoyed since the industrial revolution had diminished the value of charitable works and therefore also practical everyday Christianity. There was something more deliberate going on, the secular governors of Europe and their imitators around the world actively and forcibly took over the main activities by which Christians did their charity: education, medicine and general welfare. We call this usurper the welfare state. Prior to that most people at some time or another would have interacted with the Church for some or likely all of these needs and consequently be persuaded in a very direct and personal way by this benevolent propaganda of the deed as to the value of Christianity and its practitioners and institutions. The welfare state as it expanded pushed Christianity to the sidelines. This was done pretty explicitly to advance a secular agenda at the expense of Christianity.
Also I would say there is a bit more to the practice of Christianity than charity there is also a powerful way of surviving official oppression and there is a capacity to rapidly build large and well functioning communities. You can read about Christians surviving official oppression in the Gulag Archipelago and also in Congressional Testimony of REV. RICHARD WURMBRAND, what is notable is that for all the weapons, prison cells and tortures used on the Christians to break them of their religion their faith survives it. In the ruins of communism the Christian faith is in revival. Of course their example is Jesus Christ whose most important story concerns his survival of injustice and oppression without surrendering his Truth on the Cross and his promise that all his followers will have the means to do so too. It seems a little incongruous but the Christian community is growing fast and strong in China, it is expected that within a few decades there will be more Christians in China than members of the communist party and more Christians in china than any other country in the world. But of course it makes sense when you consider the nature of the government there. Jesus's story of being a good guy going around helping people then getting falsely harassed and oppressed by the authorities but enduring all even his own death to emerge triumphant in the end is a message that has to resonate pretty well with everyday Chinese people living under communist rule. Paradoxically communism may be stimulating the growth of Christianity in China.
All very well said.
SolarCross wrote:Okay now you are making a dig at @Victoribus Spolia. But here you are wrong too, because demographics is destiny and if you don't conquer someone else will and that will never change.
Well, to be fair,
@Hong Wu, and I have discussed our differences on this point before in his Deep Thinks.
Obviously, as a Christian, I have a dominionist outlook which is informed by my philosophy of time (which is linear in the Augustinian sense).
Hongwu's thought is strongly informed by a hyper-cyclical theory of time stemming from eastern religion and its Far-Right interpretation from guys like Julius Evola which precludes the idea of a
One True Faith that is marching mankind into its final cosmic conflict. Thus, there is a sense in Hongwu's arguments that western religious thought has run its course, it is no longer a relevant zeitgeist for the problems facing the west and its solutions are inadequate.
He does not think that fecundity and conquest are viable or realistic solutions.
However, at root, it is
the exclusivity claim of Western Christianity that Hongwu is critiquing here, the
"my way of the high-way" sorta ultimatum behind the attitudes of orthodox thinkers that refuse to see other "Western traditionalisms" as equally viable options in defense of the west.
He is correct in his analysis, but my main objection to the belief that Far-Right thinkers should take a "many possible paths" approach is that it lacks the sort of zeal that traditionalists need in order to perpetuate themselves into the future.
It is exactly the uncompromising religious zeal that carries the Muslims in their victorious march into Europe and has helped to sustain them against decadence. It was this same spirit that allowed Christianity to supplant western paganism at the fall of Rome and has preserved it against muslims until recently. Statism, the true religion of the west and the greatest manifestation of satanism on the earth, is preparing the west for doom, and no inclusive traditionalism of "many paths" will secure a western traditionalism in the future....it simple isn't
mean enough or
ballsy enough to get the job done. the exclusivity claim of western Christianity is EXACTLY what is needed to make the future hopeful and, oddly enough, it is always such zealots who opt to have children, never the flimsy inclusivist far-righters. Secular far-right folks do not reproduce at even close to the rate of ultra-conservative Catholics and evangelicals and the fact that far-right guys would rather turn to an ambivalent Darwinist interpretation or LARP as Odinists baffles me.
The answer is right in front of everyone, the most active and powerful conservative western chauvinists in the west are the ultra-conservative evangelicals and Catholics, why the far-right has refused to monopolize on this population is insanity and can really only be explained by their own depravity and rebellion against God.... that some of these Far-Right individuals are themselves worshippers of a satanic statism themselves is also not surprising and their future is the same as
Rei Murisame, whose views progressed until she blurred the line between fascism and communism until the point now that the former was absorbed into the latter. In the end,
she represents exactly why the Far-Right will devolve into statism and communism,
because it is wishy-washy on traditionalism, obsessed with technological progress, and hateful of both Christianity and private property....it is no surprise she is a self-avowed Satanist.
There can be no compromise between such and Christians, and it is the Christians alone who are the only true defenders of the west and who are the only realistic hope for its future or continuation in any sense whatsoever.
All of us have a decision to make on the right. There are four choices.
1.
The Traditional Christian. Playing The Long Game for Victory (The Joyful and Optimistic Who Are Dogmatically and Zealously Affirming Traditional Values, Are Plugged Into A Massive Like-Minded Community, and Are Growing Against Statism.)
2.
Some Other Traditionalist, Resolved To Watch The Collapse (The Chronically Depressed Dressed Up Like Vikings on Weekends Complaining About I.Q. and Immigration on Po-Fo But Unable To Do Shit About It Since There Is No Neo-Pagan Darwinist Dating Sites)
3.
The Cultural Relativist, Resolved To Watch The Collapse (The Zen-Calm Personal Traditionalist Who Believes That The West Has Just Had Its Turn and Ran Its Course, But Was Not Particularly Special, So Grab Some Popcorn and Wait For The Next Manifestation of Traditional Vitality to Arise Elsewhere).
[this is where I believe Hongwu is at]4.
The Reductionist, Who Betrays The Right Altogether (Those Who Are Consoled By The Fact That Communists Are Not Necessarily The Same As SJWs and Are Willing To Admit That All Statism Evolves Into Communism and Such Should Be Embraced Rather Than Become A Traditionalist Christian AnCap
[The Way of Rei Murisame [Note: She herself believed that these were the two alternatives of political thought, and she chose lucifer with Gusto]