Matthew 24:40-42 The Rapture? Or Death? Or being sold back into slavery? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14914031
Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill: one shall be taken, and one shall be left. Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come


Matthew 24:40-42(Douay-Rheims Challoner version)

Protestants often call this proof of the Rapture. But it's always seemed to me this verse is about God taking people away, calling them back to himself.

In otherwords these verses are talking about the sudden death (calling to heaven) of individuals at any given time. One will be taken (heart attack? Stroke?) And the person with them remaining in a state of grief(Asking "where did they go?" Per the other Gospels description of this prophercy, Just like any greaving relative who survives a loved one and asks to themselves "where are they?"). No one knows when they will "go to meet God". It could be today it could be in 50 years..... No one knows the day they will see Jesus coming to take them to paradise.... Their last day on earth...

A third possibility sticks up it's head from time to time. The Roman Army took slaves whenever they conquered. They would only take the young healthier members of the family and often would turn up the house and ransack it grabbing the "property" within moments. They would be shipped back to Rome and their family would never see nor hear from them again, ever. Once again the family would be greaving their loss and wondering what was happening to them. In this interpretation, "the day of the Lord" and the coming of the Lord is a day of judgement against Israel (for blasphemy against the Passover and killing the Messiah). Naturally this would be tied to the Siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in 70AD("the day of the lord"?).

"One will be taken, the other left"? A prophercy of the return of Jews to a form of Slavery?
#14914041
From the preceding verses, where Jesus compares this to Noah’s flood, it is clear that Jesus is referring to a vengeance of god type thing that will sweep away half the people and take them to their deaths, just like the flood did.

It is not about the rapture, nor is it about god bringing the righteous to him. It is about punishing the wicked.
#14914046
Pants-of-dog wrote:From the preceding verses, where Jesus compares this to Noah’s flood, it is clear that Jesus is referring to a vengeance of god type thing that will sweep away half the people and take them to their deaths, just like the flood did.

It is not about the rapture, nor is it about god bringing the righteous to him. It is about punishing the wicked.


Which of cause favours the third interpretation. It's another prophercy about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

In 70AD they were both killed and also the survivors were taken into slavery (same result, people left at home asking "Where are they?")....

Reading about how the Roman Slave raids worked(take the young and healthy, leave the old, infirm and children to fend for themselves) it's easy to see how the scripture is foreboding.
#14914176
Read Mark carefully. Its clearly written after the fall of Jerusalem. And the second-coming / rapture / apocalypse /final battle / what ever is therefore after the fall of Jerusalem. Luke and Matthew both use Mark as their primary source.

What even Earl Doherty and Richard Carrier seem to miss is that Mark used written sources. The easiest one to spot is the mass feeding. Authors will combine different aural versions. So there must have been written versions of the feeding story, the 4000 and 5000 versions, which due to the power of the written word in ancient societies were taken to be two separate events. This is why the apostles at he second feeding are just as surprised as at the first

Note the epistle writers never talk about the return of Jesus or the second coming. The early or proto Christains believed that Jesus's sacrifice occurred in the Heavens. The Hebrews epistle is the nearest we get to a smoking gun for Jesus' non existence. The earliest Christians learned about Jesus through the reinterpretation of scriptures, both canonical and no canonical, not through eye witness testimony. Jesus was revealed. Later he started to appear in visions and dreams, only later was Euhemerised and given an earthly biography.
#14914224
Rich wrote:The earliest Christians learned about Jesus through the reinterpretation of scriptures, both canonical and no canonical, not through eye witness testimony. Jesus was revealed. Later he started to appear in visions and dreams, only later was Euhemerised and given an earthly biography.

Not as far fetched as it undoubtedly seems to devout believers. But, AFAIK completely unsupported, pure speculation.

As for the rapture, surely those posting here know that it is consensually seen as a bodily ascendence akin to that of Christ himself. He did promise that "as I do, so shall you." I think it's concurrent to the raising of the righteous dead ? isn't it.

Zam

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