Was the Prophet Mohammad a False Prophet? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14945406
ingliz wrote:@SolarCross

As Oxymandias said, there are non-Islamic sources that are near contemporaneous to the life of Muhammad; sources that we do not have for the historical Jesus.

So for a Christian to deny the historicity of Muhammad (when the existence of a historical Jesus is on even shakier ground) is a tad strange.

You foster unbelief in both.


:lol:


Total bullshit. We do have those sources for Jesus.

1) We have Josephus
2) We have the Gospels and New Testament
3) We have Jesus being referred to significantly as a historical figure in the Talmud...

All three sources are ultimately authored by Jews(including the middle ones),
who generally keep good records of their own history and the sources therefore are pretty reliable.

To say Jesus doesn't have good evidence is frankly extremely anti-semitic.
#14945407
colliric wrote:All three sources are ultimately authored by Jews(including the middle ones).

Paul invented Christianity.

[youtube]Y4CY73psVFQ[/youtube]

Jesus was a Jew.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished...

Matthew 5:17-18

Please provide non-Jewish sources that are near contemporaneous to the life of Jesus.


:)
#14945479
Saeko wrote:I've heard of a theory which claims that Muhammad was actually invented by a group of scholars as late as the 15th century, and that figures like Abu Bakr and Umar were made up by these scholars as well. I'm gonna try to find the source.


Post it if you find it, but I just cannot see how this could have legs. I believe there are ample written sources already from the Middle Ages to the effect that the Arabs worship a man whose name is something like "Mohammed". Dante mentions him in the Divine Comedy, for example (you can probably guess where his place is).
#14945508
Orestes wrote:Post it if you find it, but I just cannot see how this could have legs. I believe there are ample written sources already from the Middle Ages to the effect that the Arabs worship a man whose name is something like "Mohammed". Dante mentions him in the Divine Comedy, for example (you can probably guess where his place is).


I don't know, I can't find it now. I'm probably misremembering it.

Overall though, I think that there's a good chance that Mohammed was real (whereas Jesus was not).
#14945516
Saeko wrote:I don't know, I can't find it now. I'm probably misremembering it.

Overall though, I think that there's a good chance that Mohammed was real (whereas Jesus was not).


No you are not.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/8574

The theory goes specifically that the Quran scribes basically invented him as a fictional character.

I don't believe it myself, but it exists.

Jesus was real. The fact that I provided only Jewish sources is irrelevant. One of those sources is "anti-Jesus", The Talmud of cause.

Tacitus is the other source.
#14945551
@colliric

I have read the article you linked and it literally ignores every single other non-Islamic source that existed during the same period as if the only historical sources that prove Muhammad's existence are Islamic ones. The idea that all non-Islamic sources were written a decade later and only repeat what the Quran has said about him is ridiculous since not only do we have military reports from both the Sassanid and Byzantines that mention Muhammad, but all of these military reports date back to the 7th century while the wars with the Byzantines and Sassanids were occurring.

Furthermore, Jesus is Jewish. There is ample evidence that supports that claim unlike the idea that Muhammad doesn't exist. I mean, even your article doesn't even have proof that he doesn't exist and it isn't supported at all. For example, the article in question doesn't even reference any of these documents they keep talking about. There is literally no reason to trust what that article is saying.
#14945576
Oxymandias wrote:@colliric

Except the Muslim scholars aren't from the 15th century. Time makes hell of a difference.


Yes I was correcting Saeko's misremembering the timeframe. The correct version of the theory is that it was the scribes of the Koran.
#14945578
Orestes wrote:Wow Rich, a totally non-repetitive post about totally not the same thing as always. It's enough to just see "1400" to know you wrote exactly the same boring shit again. Yes, Muslims bad, Muhammad paedophile, Left traitors, we know. It's like everytime I begin to drift towards Islamophobia I read another 1400-post by you and start liking Islam more just to spite you.

I'm a Christian apostate. I'm also a Communist apostate. My Christian apostasy began by the age of 5. I seem to have been born Pagan. Note that I was not just an apostate from Christianity but from Abrahamism. So I see myself in a sense as an apostate from Judaism, Islam and Mormonism as well. I recognise them as far more vile forms of Abrahamism than Christianity

My Communism began much later, obviously my Communist apostasy later still. I have known a number of apostates from a whole range of religions, ideologies, cults and political groups. I feel I know a little bit about ideological conflict, about what works and what doesn't work in terms of changing ideas. And if there is one thing you need its repetition. Simple slogans, albeit ones that you can back up by a sophisticated discourse. Never forget, the Christians, the Muslims, the Commies, when they're on there own will endlessly repeat their lies to each other, over and over and over again.

This is why the so called new Atheists so upset the Christians and the atheist leftie Muslim lovers. The only thing that was new about them was they had discovered the power of repetition and insult. Read the Bible, the Koran, the Hadith and Commie literature, they're full of repetition and insult. It was fantastic to see the new atheists giving these people a taste of their own medicine. Repetition and insult are like suppressive fire in modern warfare, a vital and necesary, if often not sufficient condition for victory on the battle field.
#14945583
You will come back to Christianity eventually. Or at least change to "Agnostic".

Atheism is a particularly idiotic opressive religion itself. They are clearly believers in the bad-Jewish philosophical concept of Justice("eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth!"), hence the whole "return the insults" phenomenon. They copied the worst aspect of fundamentalist religion, REVENGE IS JUSTICE!

Image

Funny for a while, can't say I didn't laugh once at Matt Dillahunty dressing up as a drag queen. As you can see it looked like lipstick, a $2 dress and a wig put on a butt-ugly bulldog. Although how exactly this insults Christians, etc, is beyond me.
#14945604
colliric wrote:You will come back to Christianity eventually. Or at least change to "Agnostic".

Atheism is a particularly idiotic opressive religion itself. They are clearly believers in the bad-Jewish philosophical concept of Justice("eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth!"), hence the whole "return the insults" phenomenon. They copied the worst aspect of fundamentalist religion, REVENGE IS JUSTICE!

I was never a Christian, except in the ethnic sense. In my earliest ideological memories, I accepted the existence of God, but believed him to be evil. I didn't even know North Korea existed when I was five, but Christopher Hitchen's term "A Celestial North Korea" was precisely my understanding of Christian cosmology. It was only later that I learned about the Nietzschean Gospel. The Good news of God's death. The Jewish God's death. I don't say there is no God, just that Yahweh / Jehovah is a lie created by murdering, bigoted, raping, genocidal Apartheid practising, Jews. Academia long exposed the falsity of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, but academia has been ignored. The slogan, the insult, the low energy use repetition is necessary to bring the Muslim to ideological combat where they can be defeated.

But please note I play the ball not the man. I seek to avoid insulting individuals, my insults are confined to the belief systems and the collectives of individuals who believe in or protect those belief systems. Note how lefties so often seek to engage in personal insults. This is a sign of their intelligence. They know their arguments are weak and fragile, so they seek to divert the discourse into a harmless childish slanging match. of course Trump who is on the rights has also used this technique very successfully.

The other technique that lefties use is to argue with the most racist posters or those that have the most absurd belief systems. Lefties claim to hate Nazies and Christian fundamentalists, but actually they want to give them as big a platform as possible and silence the voices of centrism, moderate progressivism and no-cuck Liberalism. This is the same way the Liberal media sought to give Trump as a big a voice as possible in the Republican primary. And it worked. Hilary might have lost to Trump, but she'd have lost a whole lot worse to a Kasich or a Rubio.
#14945651
Oxymandias wrote:@colliric

Except there were no Quran scribes since the Quran wasn't even written until the Umayyad Era.


Yes, that's why I don't believe this theory... I've told you this already!

Lol.
#14945781
Rich wrote:This is why the so called new Atheists so upset the Christians and the atheist leftie Muslim lovers.


Meanwhile in the world outside of your imagination...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 32156.html

Ms Wang and her team only spoke with people who had left Xinjiang due to a lack of access to the region and to avoid endangering those still living there. China and the Soviet Union lead the world in protecting people from Islam, the capitalist governments of the west are in love with Saudi Arabia and ISIS.

Monitoring of Islamic religious practices, such as asking people how often they pray and the closure of mosques, as well as regular visits by party officials to rural parts of Xinjiang, mean that practising Islam “has effectively been outlawed”, Ms Wang said.


People like Rich are the biggest friends Islam has, the right are all cultural Islamists, the left is the only real bulwark against the Mohamedan threat. China and the Soviet Union lead the world in protecting people from Abrahamic barbarism. The capitalist west on the other hand are allies of Saudi Arabia and of ISIS.
#14945782
Decky wrote: the left is the only real bulwark against the Mohamedan threat

I wish that were true but I do not believe it for one second.
Are you saying that your Messiah Corbyn will stop immigration by Muslims into Great Britain and deport the illegal ones ?
Corbyn needs the Muslim votes, just like the Democrats in America need the Mexicans to immigrate and vote for them.
#14945784
Decky wrote:Why would Corbyn need Muslim votes? :?: He has the Proletariat. Labour is the largest political party in Europe thanks to him.


OK, fine. Now answer my question please: do you seriously believe Corbyn will stop the Muslim immigration into Great Britain and deport the illegal immigrants already there ?
#14945785
Of course, you can't be a left winger and also be pro immigration. Immigration weakens our trade unions and reduces our wages. The Tories are the only ones who benefit from importing radical Islamists (the Tories of the middle east). Give your average Conservative a bread and a tan and how would you tell him apart from Jihadi John?
#14945786
Mr. Muhammad was a false prophet. So were the mythical figures Jesus Christ and Abraham.

Christ and Abraham might have existed. But likely enough didn't.

Muhammad did exist, and he was a warrior king. The Koran is supposedly the direct word of god, to a guy that went to write about it in a cave. But Muhammad couldn't even write.

It was written by people who were not Muhammad, and who were literate, and schooled in the texts of the day. Possibly by one person--that isn't a stretch--but that one person was someone who was not Muhammad.

It was a piece of propaganda. I learned in US history class that during the Revolutionary War, when the guys were freezing from crossing the icy river and sick from lack of food, they read out loud Common Sense by Thomas Paine.

Another worthy propaganda work.

The Koran was a propaganda piece that aided the Muslims in their conquests.

Oh, by the way, it's true that the Arabian Peninsula suffered from overpopulation, and prominent historians believe this to be a rationale for explaining the impetus of Arabics to conquer adjacent lands.

But, one thing is for sure. The Arabics were certainly the first and, indeed only, nomadic people to conquer the domains of farmers.

Oh wait just a second, something doesn't sound right about that.

There were also the Huns, the Mongols, the Manchus, and many others.

Like Herodotus said, 'soft lands bread soft men.'

Or like Eugene Sandow's father said to him on a trip to a museum to look at Roman statues; when asked by his son why people don't look that way anymore; the toils of life in the modern day are not such as they use to be, which precludes people from looking like that--or something to that effect.

The Muslims do have a death cult. The Christians and Jews do, too. But among the Christians and Jews, many or most belong to societies which have progressed beyond the early stages of societal development, and don't fall back on their death cults. When it comes to USans, there could be an argument they are no more advanced. Same goes for the Zionists.
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