annatar1914 wrote:Say it all you want, it doesn't make it so. Your comments in fact are devoid of historical or theological context, so repeating what is untrue over and over again like a mantra persuades nobody of anything.
I gave you a quote from Wikipedia that gave the historical context.
annatar1914 wrote:Again with the ''magic Hebrew words'' making it more special in the Lord's eyes to see
Nothing magic there. I was just revealing the truth that our Lord and Savior came in His Father's name as He said.
annatar1914 wrote:But no, real people don't generally write like that, referring to your reply to my original quote. It's suspicious.
I am a real person.
annatar1914 wrote:Actually it does, especially if you are a Christian, and happen to believe that the Word of God is inerrant and doesn't contradict Itself and believe that therefore ''Scripture explains Scripture''.
The Word of God is inerrant and doesn't contradict itself and "Scripture explains Scripture" if one has correct understanding. The Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13 is the physical location in Asia at the time of Peter after the old Babylon was destroyed, but was still referred to as Babylon by the Jews that had been taken captive there, as my Wikipedia historical account revealed.
annatar1914 wrote:St. John in the Apocalypse did.
John was not talking about the same Babylon as Peter. John referred to a future Mystery Babylon the Great, which is to be utterly destroyed in the end times.
annatar1914 wrote:So everybody before the 2000's AD was wrong, until some convert from Islam to Roman Catholicism with a chip on his shoulder against his original religion and a desire to please people in his new one, Walid Shoebat, started in with his ''Babylon is Mecca'' and ''The Mahdi is the Antichrist of Christian prophesy'' nonsense?
It appears that way. Jesus said, "I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18 KJV)
annatar1914 wrote:You don't seem to know what a ''Code'' is or the solid reasons he might call Rome ''Babylon''.... Such as Rome persecuting Christians, the Israel of God in the New Testament Covenant era. Such as Rome destroying the Temple in Jerusalem, just as the Babylonians did. Or Rome as being the Gentile World Power in it's time as St. Daniel writes, just as Babylon was in it's day.
Peter was not using code, but speaking in plain language. John in Revelation is another matter. But this Mystery Babylon that John saw was a mystery to him that the angel had to explain. I don't see how Rome would be much of a mystery to John.
annatar1914 wrote:Before, During, and hereafter to the Second Coming.
Yes, this whore and beast where hereafter to the Second Coming. The beast empire in that area after Rome was the Ottoman Empire. The whore represents the Islamic Babylonian religion of the beast. All those nations in that area today except Israel are Islamic.
annatar1914 wrote:That was contemporary messages St. John wrote to the Bishops of those cities, so what's your point?John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Again, no point.
The text does not say anything about anything originating out of Asia.
(Revelation 1:4 KJV)
Obviously, Revelation is prophecy for Christians in Asia. Asia is the location of the whore religion and the beast kingdom. That religion today is obviously Islam.
annatar1914 wrote:Tell me; is it better to lose your head, your life? Or is it better to lose your soul to spiritual deception?I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands...
(Revelation 20:4 KJV)
annatar1914 wrote:Actually it isn't, it's on a trade route in a mountainous region called the
Hejaz, which is close to the Red Sea.
Considerably, more than half the area of Saudi Arabia is desert.
Mecca is situated at an elevation of 909 feet (277 metres) above sea level in the dry beds of the Wadi Ibrāhīm
and several of its short tributaries. It is surrounded by the Ṣirāt Mountains...
Definition of wadi. 1 : the bed or valley of a stream in regions of southwestern Asia and northern
Africa that is usually dry except during the rainy season and that often forms an oasis : gully,
wash. 2 : a shallow usually sharply defined depression in a desert region.
Definition of oasis. 1 : a fertile or green area in an arid region (such as a desert) The caravan
stopped to rest at an oasis.
annatar1914 wrote:And what Paganism is practiced by Islam is irrelevant because St. John speaks ...for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow...
about ''Babylon'' saying she isn't a widow.... Speaks of her apostasy. A harlot who commits
spiritual fornication from God. Mecca never knew the true God to fall away from or commit
fornication against, ''Babylon'' (Rome) did and has.
(Revelation 18:7 KJV) see also Isaiah 47:8. She is not speaking of her apostasy, which is the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief, for she goes on and says that she will see no sorrow. Fornication is sexual intercourse between people not married to each other. Islam is a false pagan religion that has never been married to the true God, so Mecca fits the definition of fornication better than Vatican City in Rome.
annatar1914 wrote:A spiritual desert. St. John is using Apocalyptic symbols after all.
It doesn't say anything about a spiritual desert, it simply states that the angel transported him in the spirit to the desert or wilderness, most likely the great Arabian Desert of Asia.
annatar1914 wrote:''Waters'' are peoples in Apocalyptic symbolism. ''Sitting'' on them means rule over them. Mecca never ruled but was ruled by other powers and cities during the Islamic period to this day. Rome ruled over many people, and spiritually still does.
Mecca is regarded as the holiest city in the religion of Islam and a pilgrimage to it known as the Hajj is obligatory for all able Muslims. Mecca is home to the Kaaba, by majority description Islam's holiest site, as well as being the direction of Muslim prayer. Mecca was long ruled by Muhammad's descendants, the sharifs, acting either as independent rulers or as vassals to larger polities.
Today, more than 15 million Muslims visit Mecca annually, including several million during the few days of the Hajj. As a result, Mecca has become one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the Muslim world, although non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the city.
Another name for Mecca, or the wilderness and mountains surrounding it, according to Arab and Islamic tradition, is Faran or Pharan, referring to the Desert of Paran mentioned in the Old Testament at Genesis 21:21.
According to Islamic tradition, the history of Mecca goes back to Abraham (Ibrahim), who built the Kaaba with the help of his elder son Ishmael in around 2000 BCE, when the inhabitants of the site then known as Bakkah had fallen away from the original monotheism of Abraham through the influence of the Amalekites.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca
annatar1914 wrote:''Scarlet'' means an Empire in Apocalyptic symbolism, Mecca never ruled an Empire.Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool..
(Isaiah 1:18 KJV)
Scarlet and crimson were the firmest of dyes, and thus not easily washed out. So we see that scarlet represents sin in the Bible.
annatar1914 wrote:The Apocalypse says the woman sits ON the Hills/Mountains, not AROUND. You are repeated untruths in hopes that it'll magically change the facts.
The fact is that it says "mountains" and nothing about "hills" and the Greek word translated as "sitteth" in the KJV is Strong's Greek number 2521 to sit down, reside fig. to remain'reside: - dwell, sit (by, down).
annatar1914 wrote:I don't think you did well in geography, because Saudi Arabia does not border the Mediterranean, the Caspian, or the Black seas . And besides, ''Waters'' mean
''Peoples'' in Apocalyptic symbolism.
Okay, I failed geography, but the point is that Saudia Arabia is close to many seas which supports the following verses:For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
(Revelation 18:17-19 KJV)
Also, casting dust on their heads to denote grief is a Middle Eastern custom and not something those around the city of Rome would likely do.
annatar1914 wrote:Go back to the Koine Greek.Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
(Luke 23:30 KJV)
Clearly there are two different Greek words, one for mountains and another one for hills.
annatar1914 wrote:You should just stop with ''I don't think''.
Okay, how about... You are probably wrong.?
I will return later to answer your other concerns.
annatar1914 wrote:''Jesus'' is mentioned in Islam. But there is no theology developed about their ''Jesus'' and his Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God?
role in their religion comparable to the Christ of Christian Scripture. Aside from the name, it
could be just as well an entirely different person.
Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell (5.72).
According to Jesus, God is our Father, yet the Quran very specifically denies that Allah is a father (112.1-4). In fact, in 5.18, the Quran tells Muslims to rebuke Jews and Christians for calling God their loving Father because humans are just things that God has created.
Islam roundly condemns worship of the Trinity (5.73), establishing in contrast its own core principle: Tawhid, the absolute oneness of God. Tawhid specifically denies the Trinity, so much so that it is safe to say the doctrine of God in Christianity is antithetical to the doctrine of God in Islam. Not just different but completely opposed to one another.
The Christian God, both in terms of what he is (Triune) and who he is (Father, Son, and Spirit) is not just different from the Muslim God; He is fundamentally incompatible. According to Islam, worshiping the Christian God is not just wrong; it sends you to Hell. They are not the same God.
The Trinity is an elaboration of Jewish theology, not a rejection. By contrast, Tawhid is a categorical rejection of the Trinity, Jesus’ deity, and the Fatherhood of God, doctrines that are grounded in the pages of the New Testament and firmly established centuries before the advent of Islam. Most of the earliest Christians were Jews, incorporating their encounter with Jesus into their Jewish theology. Nothing of the sort is true of Muhammad, who was neither a Jew nor a Christian. Islam did not elaborate on the Trinity but rejected and replaced it.
Christians worship a Triune God: a Father who loves unconditionally, an incarnate Son who is willing to die for us so that we may be forgiven, and an immanent Holy Spirit who lives in us. This is not what the Muslim God is; it is not who the Muslim God is; and it is not what the Muslim God does. Truly, the Trinity is antithetical to Tawhid, fundamentally incompatible and only similar superficially and semantically. Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-global/d ... e-same-god
While Muslims agree with Christians on many crucial details surrounding Jesus’ life (e.g., His angelic annunciation, virgin conception, and miracles), they reject the core elements relating to the gospel (i.e., His divine nature, sacrificial death, and resurrection).
Tne Muslims claim Jesus was not crucified to death, but was just taken up to Heaven and will return.
The most common Muslim position today is that Allah miraculously disguised Judas to look like Jesus. Then Judas was crucified in Jesus’ place, while Jesus was taken safely to heaven. The standard Islamic understanding of Jesus’ rescue seems to require a second coming. If Qur’an 4:157–8 asserts that Jesus was taken to heaven alive, this claim must be reconciled with other passages of the Qur’an, which imply that Jesus would die (e.g., 19:33).
To make sense of these conflicting claims, Muslims must believe that Jesus is going to return to Earth at some point in the future, and that he will die and be resurrected. This is exactly what we find in the Hadith.
Indeed, Muhammad affirmed a startling role for Jesus at his second coming: “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary [i.e., Isa (Jesus)] descends amongst you and will judge mankind justly by the Law of the Qur’an (as a just ruler); he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).’”
The jizya (poll tax) won’t be abolished because of the abundance of money, but because Allah “will cause all religions to perish except Islam.” According to other traditions, Jesus will wage jihad against unbelievers, kill the Antichrist, get married, have children, take the pilgrimage to Mecca, reign for forty years, die, and be buried near Muhammad in Medina.https://www.equip.org/article/jesus-in-islam/