[Grunch]

Selective quoting is wonderful isn't it.

I quoted what was relevant to the discussion of what Anarchist Initiative does/is.

[kuros_taken]

I don't see how failure to follow demands of others is antisocial. I don't see why somebody else has the right to tell me my way of life is wrong or unacceptable. I also don't see how this makes me a dangerous person or pathetic. I think it builds a stronger character and leads me to a more responsible lifestyle, instead of having some institution to make decisions for me and give and take for me. Why can I not just take care of myself, and let others take care of themselves, instead of their problems becoming mine?

[Dan]

I quoted what was relevant to the discussion of what Anarchist Initiative does/is.

Other than the part about building bombs and supporting the building of explosives? Other then the part about armed struggle?

[Dave]

I don't see how failure to follow demands of others is antisocial. I don't see why somebody else has the right to tell me my way of life is wrong or unacceptable. I also don't see how this makes me a dangerous person or pathetic. I think it builds a stronger character and leads me to a more responsible lifestyle, instead of having some institution to make decisions for me and give and take for me. Why can I not just take care of myself, and let others take care of themselves, instead of their problems becoming mine?

mostly the problem is people who don't have strong characters

[Grunch]

Other than the part about building bombs and supporting the building of explosives? Other then the part about armed struggle?

There is nothing in the "Letter From Greece" that indicates that K. Mazokopos is involved with Anarchist Initiative.

[Dan]

There is nothing in the "Letter From Greece" that indicates that K. Mazokopos is involved with Anarchist Initiative.

But they do support him and his actions and promote violence, as I wrote.

[Grunch]

But they do support him and his actions and promote violence, as I wrote.

cite yo sources this is getting dumb

[Dan]

cite yo sources this is getting dumb

It is kinda dumb that you can't read basic English and can't fathom context, but again I'll repost them and maybe osmosis will occur.

As I posted earlier from AI's site:

Murder that was committed by the greek state is the truth of this society in an extremely concentrated form. Fire that consumes banks and police stations, shopping centers and insurance companies fuels our imagination and desire. “For in the destroyed and pillaged streets of our cities of light we see not only the obvious results of our rage, but the possibility of starting to live.”
...
Greek youth knows that there is no place for police on their streets, it knows that every crime needs to be punished and it knows also that the trivial phrases about untouchability of private property have not use value for it. The only untouchability that greek insurgents are interested in is the untouchability of murderers and only in order to smash it.

So clearly AI supports violence.

Support Mazokopos!

"Our aim is to climax our struggle at the second trial, whenever
this is appointed. We invite you to support this struggle by all
means."

Comrades,

This letter concerns the case of the anarchist fighter K. Mazo-
kopos, who, as you might already know, was sentenced to 17 years
imprisonment by the first court decision. We would like to remind
you briefly that K. Mazokopos was arrested at the hospital to which
he had resorted after an explosive mechanism had accidentally gone
off in his hands, thereby causing him the loss of his left eye and
his left hand up to the wrist. The next day (8 Nov. '90), the
police discovered guns, ammunition and printed matter in the
warehouse where the above incident had taken place. K. Mazokopos
was immediately charged with theft and possession of explosives,
explosion by negligence, as well as participation in the execution
of the psychiatrist of the Athenian penitentiary (Korydallos
Prison), on sole evidence of a pamphlet found in the warehouse, for
which the armed organisation Revolutionary Solidarity had claimed
responsibility. As was known to us and was proved later in court,
the pamphlet had in fact been mailed to the Union of Anarchists of
Athens, where Comrade Mazokopos was correspondence attendant.

Two significant developments followed upon the excuse of this
tragic incident:

(a) A "criminal hunt" was released among the anarchists and the
extreme left, resulting in the arrest and imprisonment of the
fighters Koyannis, Bouketsidis and Bergner, allegedly members of
the "Mazokopos group," who were finally reprieved after a long
hunger-strike.

(b) The enactment of the anti-terrorist Act was accelerated. The
purpose of this act is to annihilate visibly, morally, politically
and socially either those who have made the choice of armed
struggle, or those whom the police or the Secret Services
occasionally consider necessary to present as such, that is, every
time their force of social control and repression is challenged or
questioned. The latter is the least apparent but most frequently
used feature of the Anti-terrorist Act: its very endorsement was
based on constructed evidence and the inflation of facts concerning
our comrade.

It is indeed notable that since the reestablishment of parlia-
mentarism (1974-5_), respective laws and unjustified arrests were
not the outcome of tactical victories of the State against armed
organizations. Quite contrarily, they were enforced either because
the State would feel threatened by social unrest, or for the
psychopath's monomania which one of the gangs that control it would
use to distinguish itself from the rest and perform "counter-
terrorist services."

This also explains the disproportion between constructed evidence
and factual truth: In twenty years of armed struggle in Greece only
two guerrillas have become known, the revolutionaries Ch.
Tsoutsouvis and Ch. Kasimis. They were both assassinated by the
police (1985 and 1978 respectively) in confrontations that were
brought about by chance rather than preparation and plan.

As for comrade Mazokopos, the security forces charged him with as
many accusations as could be squeezed out of the warehouse in a
highly arbitrary way. In the trial, our comrade admitted having
rented the warehouse in 1983 with a forged I.D. for the storage of
an archive of anarchist printed matter. On leaving the warehouse in
1988-89, two other persons took over, the names of which he never
got close to disclosing. The unlucky incident occurred during the
last withdrawal of his own archival material.

For his outright stance and his refusal to become a traitor, the
court convicted him for a devastating 17-year prison sentence. He
was nevertheless discharged of the accusation of the psychiatrist's
murder and the three were completely acquitted, as Mazokopos had
also asked for in court.

We, as friends and comrades of K. Mazokopos, do not accept any of
the accusations against him and continue our support (a significant
part of which is financial, political and moral). Our aim is to
climax our struggle at the second trial, whenever this is
appointed. We invite you to support this struggle by all means.

We believe that this case should become known in a wider radius
than we could handle, for K. Mazokopos is one of the purest and
most honest Greek fighters for Anarchy. There is also need for his
financial support, given the conditions of his health and his
proletarian background. Moreover, we should coordinate our actions
in such a way that the issue of solidarity to K. Mazokopos acquires
international status. We will inform you about the date of his
second trial at the Appeal Court (around which our struggle will
reach a peak), as soon as we know. Greek consulates and embassies
are some of the sites where internationalist Anarchist Solidarity
can be demonstrated.

If you wish, you can contribute financially to the following
account number: National Bank of Greece 251/940054-08
With comradely regards,
Anarchist Initiative
of Thessaloniki
POB 11251
54110 Thessaloniki
Greece

Clearly AI supports those who enact violence and destruction.

But I'm sure you'll feign ignorance again, and deny that the sky is blue, but by now I've given up expecting anything approaching intellectual integrity from you, so...

[Grunch]

Clearly AI supports those who enact violence and destruction.

But I'm sure you'll feign ignorance again, and deny that the sky is blue, but by now I've given up expecting anything approaching intellectual integrity from you, so...

Well if we're going by the Letter From Greece, this assumption isn't verified.

As for comrade Mazokopos, the security forces charged him with as
many accusations as could be squeezed out of the warehouse in a
highly arbitrary way. In the trial, our comrade admitted having
rented the warehouse in 1983 with a forged I.D. for the storage of
an archive of anarchist printed matter. On leaving the warehouse in
1988-89, two other persons took over, the names of which he never
got close to disclosing. The unlucky incident occurred during the
last withdrawal of his own archival material.

...But this is all a far cry from being able to connect Anarchist Initiative to damaged kiosks. So it looks like your initial assumption, that led to this page long derail, was completely baseless.

[kuros_taken]

I think it would be fair to say that there aren't many politically-driven institutions on the planet that do not support violence in some way if it means getting the upper hand in order to obtain a better political foothold. The police, for example.

[Eauz]

My answer is that they shouldn't. The aim of a proletarian revolution is to seize collective ownership of the means of production, not destroy them. In fact, the achievements of the capitalist mode of production are real and should not be squandered in an orgy of mindless violence.

Except, this was a kiosk, not a museums, art gallery, factory, etc. You can find the same means of production at your local office supplies store (Staples, Best Buy, Office Depot, etc.). No one really cares about a kiosk and this was more of a feel good story than anything of importance.

[Potemkin]

this was more of a feel good story than anything of importance.

True. The point of the story was to prove that anarchists are people too, and behind all the rhetoric of class war we are all actually brothers under the skin. Totally absurd and objectively reactionary of course, but it sells newspapers (from kiosks! ).

[KurtFF8]

I find it rather touching that we are united by our shared hatred of liberals and anarchists,

More anarchist bashing sectarianism, please. It generally helps the left achieve its goals

[Potemkin]

Your wish is my command, Kurt.

[Grunch]

think it would be fair to say that there aren't many politically-driven institutions on the planet that do not support violence in some way if it means getting the upper hand in order to obtain a better political foothold. The police, for example.

That Anarchist Initiative supports violence on some level isn't unique or anything that distinguishes them from mainstream political groups. My problem is that Dan and others formulated opinions without any factual backing and then when I had the gall to request sources for their assertions I was told I didn't have intellectual integrity... because I wouldn't jump to conclusions.