The first transgender doll. What makes it transgender? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14826737
Drlee wrote:Right. We are laughing at transgendered people. :roll:

Tell me son. Which post laughed at transgendered people?

I laughed at Frollein's post because it was funny. But since you want to go there, I will tell you that this argument is rapidly becoming absurd.

I do not care what people do within limits. If they want to whack off their pp and wear skorts that is up to them. I will say though, and this is not making fun of transgendered people, that some of the so called science surrounding this entire subject is very sketchy indeed. Particularly when it comes to trans children.

Now the very notion of a transgendered doll is the very definition of ridiculous. It is the height of absurdity. It is foolish. And any parent who buys it? Monumental dumb ass.

Yeah it's kind of difficult to take your supposed tolerance of transgendered people serious when you're spewing this garbage.
#14826742
Any parent who tells a small child they can choose their sex should be charged with child abuse. The mental trauma from sexual confusion is well known.
#14826746
This doll is really aimed rather cynically at the doll collectors market, which frankly is rather gay anyway. It won't be used by children.

Watch it deliberately bomb(toymaker will still profit, they'll use the traditional "Limited Edition" strategy). Then in ten years time watch as it goes on Ebay for a pretty penny.

Shit happens all the time, Jazz is an idiot that got played by a bunch of corporate toy players.
#14826754
One Degree wrote:Any parent who tells a small child they can choose their sex should be charged with child abuse. The mental trauma from sexual confusion is well known.

:lol: Really? Telling them that people have a choice of who they want to be is child abuse, but telling them that they'll go to hell if they don't believe in God is OK, right?

You have a right to teach your kids things that I think are stupid, and I have a right to teach my kid about things that you think are stupid. You're not abusing your child just because I disagree with you.

colliric wrote:This doll is really aimed rather cynically at the doll collectors market, which frankly is rather gay anyway. It won't be used by children.

Watch it deliberately bomb(toymaker will still profit, they'll use the traditional "Limited Edition" strategy). Then in ten years time watch as it goes on Ebay for a pretty penny.

Shit happens all the time, Jazz is an idiot that got played by a bunch of corporate toy players.

This seems like a realistic outlook. And the toy makers probably knew to some extent that they would benefit from the negative publicity and the positive publicity both. Really if you don't like the doll the best thing to do would be to be apathetic towards it. Rage just gives them exposure.
#14826766
Telling someone a fact (that there are transgendered people) is not child abuse. And presenting positive representations is not encouraging people. I can show a positive representation of a black person without having encouraged anybody to be black. Rather, I'm encouraging people to see the positive side of other people instead of just what their prejudice wants them to see.

Even if you say that these people just want attention... who cares? Life is a constant struggle to gain attention. We could be living in a wonderful utopia if we just paid attention to who needs what. That includes people's emotional as well as biological needs. Like I said, there is enough resources out there for everybody without having to exclude anybody. Yet because you disagree with another person's lifestyle you will condemn them, insult them, and belittle them. You will say it should be a crime to say anything but negative things about them to your children. You literally want to outlaw acceptance because of how you feel about how another person chooses to live their life.

Thankfully we do have the first amendment so that will never happen.
#14826773
Telling them that transgenderism is anything other than a mental illness is a lie. Pretending that the left-liberal agenda is based on facts is an even bigger lie. So yeah, while the first amendmend won't stop you from lying to your children, doesn't mean it's okay to do so. Especially since that lie is in a whole other category than Santa Claus.
#14826774
Frollein wrote:Telling them that transgenderism is anything other than a mental illness is a lie. Pretending that the left-liberal agenda is based on facts is an even bigger lie. So yeah, while the first amendmend won't stop you from lying to your children, doesn't mean it's okay to do so. Especially since that lie is in a whole other category than Santa Claus.

One person's lie is another person's reality. Anyway, lies aren't illegal, nor are they child abuse, so the point is inconsequential.
#14826776
Igor Antunov wrote:Lying to a little kid to such a life altering extent, encouraging gender dysphoria is indeed abuse.


But let's be honest. This doll isn't for the kids... It's for the Waylon Smithers(because he is the doll collector in Simpsons), or The Collector from Toy Story 2, of this world. In other words it's really for middle aged "probably Gay" men. Which is probably actually a scarier concept. Grown middle aged men buying a doll-likeness of 16 year old transgender girl.

It may also be bought by vain SJWs for mostly stupid political reasons. Most of these people don't have kids anyway.

Dolls, including the more expensive limited edition Barbies, are frequently made solely for the collectors market these days. Jazz is an idiot that got played by players. The Toy company is out to make bucks. Limited edition "First Transgender Doll". They'll make all the cash with a limited run and high RRP, and most of the dolls will go Mint straight in the collectors cabinet or on Ebay and be put there by middle aged men who will then make a cool profit. Only slight royalties off the initial sale will go to Jazz.
#14826885
Really? Telling them that people have a choice of who they want to be is child abuse, but telling them that they'll go to hell if they don't believe in God is OK, right?


Right. You can change your mind about God when you grow up. You can not regrow a penis.

You have a right to teach your kids things that I think are stupid, and I have a right to teach my kid about things that you think are stupid. You're not abusing your child just because I disagree with you.


We do not "disagree with you". Some of us are suspicious of the science. We are suspicious of the application of what we see and tentative results at best. Then we are skeptical of medical intervention into an illness that we find, at best, poorly defined and not easily diagnosed. Then we particularly disagree with dramatic and irreversible procedures being performed on children who cannot give their own informed consent. So as special a snowflake as you are, you are not the big-deal in this argument.
#14827018
Drlee wrote:So as special a snowflake as you are, you are not the big-deal in this argument.

It seems to me that the people freaking out over a doll being made in the likeness of a transgender person as if this is a problem are the 'snowflakes'. You can't bear the thought of a transgender person being well enough respected by some people that someone thinks it would be profitable to make a doll of them.

The point is there is no 'big deal' in this argument. People liking Jazz Jennings does not affect you in any way.
#14827021
I think that's an interesting note to make.

As has been elaborated upon earlier, the company thought it could make money from doing this.

There is then an uproar against it.

When people come out and defend the company, the uproary people seem to presume there is something of a conspiracy taking place. It's never stated exactly as such, but it seems to be that any company making decisions the right doesn't like must be motivated by something nefarious and ideological instead of a way to make a few extra shares on the stock market.

Is this, perhaps, a way of reconciling capitalism with actions taken that hurt rightwing feelings? Note the thread about the sitcom and how Sabbaticus immediately assumed a conspiracy was afoot.

Personally, I'd have hanged the capitalist cretins at the company a long time ago. Whatever product they're making money off is less relevant to me than the exploitation of labour, marketing, environment, etc, etc, etc. the doll is beneith my ability to care about.
#14827072
It is long established now that toy and other amusement companies see "Rare Limited Editions" as a way to make significant cash off of limited appeal products such as this.

They will deliberately make very little so that the people demanding the product(usually the weirdo toy collectors) will perceive it to be a rarity, then jack up the RRP price because of how "rare" the product is. Because of the limited run, they will save production costs, claim the item is rare(which it arbitrarily will be), then make the profit on the way high RRP.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was actually born this way in the 80s as a deliberate limited run collectors-aimed rare comic book publication. The strategy worked too well that time, you could say.. Everyone wanted it and so many demanded the product they had to turn it into a real franchise.
#14827626
Drlee wrote:Right. You can change your mind about God when you grow up. You can not regrow a penis.

That's a strawman. Nobody said anything about children getting surgery. I was just pointing out that telling your kids about transgendered people or representing them in a positive way is not childhood abuse, it's a choice.

We do not "disagree with you". Some of us are suspicious of the science. We are suspicious of the application of what we see and tentative results at best. Then we are skeptical of medical intervention into an illness that we find, at best, poorly defined and not easily diagnosed. Then we particularly disagree with dramatic and irreversible procedures being performed on children who cannot give their own informed consent. So as special a snowflake as you are, you are not the big-deal in this argument.

In other words you're worried about a) something you don't understand and b) something you misunderstood. But I'm the special snowflake because I think people should be able to teach their children what they feel is right within the realm of what the law says is allowed? Ok, snowflake.
#14827709
In other words you're worried about something you don't understand.


Guess what epidemiologists and other heath care professionals do? You know. People like me. We are paid to be "worried" about poor research and advise restraint when there is not enough evidence to support some drastic medical procedures.


But I'm the special snowflake because I think people should be able to teach their children what they feel is right within the realm of what the law says is allowed?


Well that too. But we are not talking about what people are allowed to do. We are talking about what they ought to do. Based upon the science.
#14827759
There are mentally ill people who feel alienated from parts of their body (usually legs or arms) so much that they want to have them amputated (body integrity disorder). I guess amputating their limbs is an "effective" treatment, too, but using that word in this context makes it meaningless.

And honoring the dignity of a mentally ill person doesn't mean playing along with their delusions - on the contrary. It means treating their disorder, not abusing it for your identity crap.
#14827915
I was directly replying to this part of your sentence:

Regardless of whether gender surgery is an effective treatment, which even your own source says it is


I have no idea what you just responded to.

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