[colliric]

The psychology of any species that produces large numbers of offspring rapidly is incredibly unlikely to be invested in the survival of their offspring.

On industrial scale yeah, because they are producing many and they are being removed relatively quickly from the parent. However this Chicken was privately owned and presumably had few species companions(I.e. Friends... As we humans call them). It is likely given that situation, the chicken was probably more invested in company provided by the Chicks than chickens raised in an industrial environment. Indeed they very well could have been her only offspring, given she was privately owned?

It is proven that Animals can also suffer mental illnesses such as PTSD, OCD and depression.

[colliric]

Yet this is a system that people will continue to trap themselves in because they don't see that if everybody made a bit of a sacrifice we would have enough resources for everybody without costing ourselves the planet either.

The meat industry is at a historical dead end.

This is where you and I differ on Animal Rights. I'm a strong believer in not having cruelty to Animals. However I fail to see the point in fighting against evolution and progress, which is what Green Politics attempts to do.

On that note, Mankind is Darwin's final "Dominant species", what I like to call the ultimate Apex Animal. We evolved because we were driven to evolve into the species we are today in order to survive AND PROPAGATE. We are the omnivorous species that is at the top of what is ultimately the evolved food chain, and we evolved to take that place(by God's will and design, or by pure evolution, pick one! I don't see a difference myself) weather you like it or not. We evolved be omnivores, to desire and eat both plant food and meats.

You have to feed 8 billion people on this planet now.

You incorrectly believe the Planet can be "saved". This is not the case. The fact of the matter is the Planet will ultimately be destroyed by the Sun when it dies, by Supernova or when the gravity pull is broken. Before that happens(maybe billions of years from now, but still), Mankind should seek to colonize other carbon life supporting planets(which we now know exist) in similar solar systems and to explore space to ensure the ultimate survival of our human species as well as some of earth's other lifeforms.

I think it is severely wrong to just plain discriminate against the Meat industry and it's working class structures. As mankind evolved into the omnivore species Homo Sapien, it is ethical to kill some fast/easy breeding animals for meat(Chickens, Pigs, Cows, Sheep, Fish... Other species not endangered). I support the existence of ethical Circuses, Racing and Zoological or Theme Park entertainment and/or enclosures. This was traditionally how Children could gain a closer relationship and be educated about Animals.... By actually seeing and even touching them through edutainments, and of cause owning and living with pets. I am particularly upset that most children will never get to see the amazing and exotic animals I frequently saw as a child at such circus shows and in Zoos. This isn't a good development for human kind as we are getting to see in normal life far less of "the natural world" because of individuals seeking to "preserve" what cannot be preserved once a dominant species has emerged. The natural world in reality us being isolated behind a technocratic exterior. I cannot believe I am one of the last children to see a fully functioning Animal Circus and a fully stocked Zoo and learn about these animals FACE-TO-FACE.

I think Desexing of animals is unethical and even cruel because it shortens an Animal's life as well. But to control the cat population and for human hygiene and safety purposes, I support it after the cat has reached adult age.

I believe culling should be a last resort for animal control. But it is needed for the same reasons as Cats should be desexed.

I believe dog owners who use a choke chain and shock collars should be legally punished with strong animal cruelty charges. Why? Because that animal will die younger than animals not punished in that manner.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I agree, our high population and general isolation from or manipulation of nature causes us to be completely disconnected from any type of food web ecosystem. Instead of being a part of a biome, we create a production line to fulfill our need for energy (food). This requires a constant stream of animals to be produced and killed so that we can eat. Furthermore, the nature of our culture dictates that we stimulate consumption, which further promotes the belief of food as pleasure because that is more profitable for the most amount people.

The meat industry is at a historical dead end.

Eventually, the meat industry as we know it will largely die (as the cost of maintaining livestock becomes too economically unfeasible, environmentally unfriendly due to the physical costs and methane produced, and so on). What people will eat as "meat" will probably either be soy/fungal-textured "meat" or vat-grown meat. The former solves the environmental and economical impact of high-concentrate protein in our diet, while the latter still provides actual meat without the ethical and environmental problems. Eventually, vat-grown meat will become not only possible, but as the technology is perfected, a fraction of the cost of raising actual livestock. By that time, switching from slaughter to vat-growing will be an obvious cost benefit, and slaughter will virtually become a thing of the past, and most likely only exist in cultures with strict rules on slaughter (I'm unsure whether vat-grown meat would be considered halal) or among subsistence communities.

So to recap, we don't live in the natural world and we live in a place that has to kill billions of animals a year in order for a select few to make a lot of money. Yet this is a system that people will continue to trap themselves in because they don't see that if everybody made a bit of a sacrifice we would have enough resources for everybody without costing ourselves the planet either.

There will never be a fair system as long as capitalism is that economic system. Exploitation, inequality, and class structure is fundamental to its existence. This of course includes liberal, progressive reforms.

Have you ever read the book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, by the way? The point he made about empathy towards non-human life is subtly profound.

[AFAIK]

@colliric
If you're concerned about animals having a shorter lifespan due to mistreatment why aren't you concerned about the Earth's ability to sustain life being reduced? Saying that the Sun will explode one day so why bother is the same as saying a newborn's life expectancy is 80 years so why bother giving her clean water and vaccinations since she'll die eventually anyway.

Also humans didn't evolve to be apex predators. It is our mastery of technology that allowed us to attain apex status. Before that we were firmly in the middle of the food chain.

[colliric]

If you're concerned about animals having a shorter lifespan due to mistreatment why aren't you concerned about the Earth's ability to sustain life being reduced? Saying that the Sun will explode one day so why bother is the same as saying a newborn's life expectancy is 80 years so why bother giving her clean water and vaccinations since she'll die eventually anyway.

Also humans didn't evolve to be apex predators. It is our mastery of technology that allowed us to attain apex status. Before that we were firmly in the middle of the food chain.

Because of the clear emergence of a dominant apex species on this planet, the inevitable result of the environment being significantly affected is unstoppable. Any animal that has no natural stronger predator is destined to change the environment to suit(both intentionally and unintentionally), have a continuous growing hungry population, and to be omnivorous(as that is an obvious evolutionary advantage for the species not having to rely on plant foods alone). Human use of Penicillin, general Hygiene products like soap, and antibiotics has had huge effect on human population growth in the last two to three centuries (it was already continuously rising, but these medical advancements made it "take off").

The earth was never designed to permanently sustain life on it's surface, in fact it has it's own lifespan and was designed with a climate that is in a permanent state of reasonable change. If it was by destiny designed to permanently sustain life and have a non-changing climate, the Sun wouldn't have been designed to be it's ultimate harbinger of doom(should no other also cataclysmic celestial event or body interfere with that... Earth was hit by one before), no matter how many billions of years that will take. Likely the Dinosaurs would never have died off as well.

For the continued survival of earth species(both Man and Animal) beyond such an event, requires that the dominant most intelligent species learn to travel to other solar systems away from this particular star and to attempt to populate other planets that could support carbon based lifeforms(which we now know there are many). The first step is to return to the Moon, and later also land humankind on Mars.

Also in relation to your second paragraph, I'm sorry but that totally made no sense. Mankind's mastery of technology came about by way of evolution. Mankind slowly evolved into a species of high intelligence, and it is our intelligence, along with the evolution of our hands and feet, which allowed us to master technology and learn to use tools. The evolution of our intelligence, through the development of the Human Brain(the most powerful computer on Earth, as some people say), is perhaps THE primary factor in humankind becoming the Earth's dominant predator species and signaling the endgame of evolution on the planet Earth has been reached(Intelligent species like Man ultimately will in the majority never accept significant changes to the Human DNA strain as being "normal", and for the survival of the species as it currently exists, will seek the eradication of "abnormalities/mutations", plus will place pressure on other animals DNA also not to change).

[AFAIK]

Our evolutionary development occurred 30,000+ years ago and it is the technological development we pursued more recently than that, which allowed us to reach apex predator status.

In order to colonise other planets and solar systems we will have to continue developing our technology and scientific understanding. This will takes centuries, more likely millennia, so we need to be able to sustain ourselves on Earth for as long as possible.

[Deutschmania]

@skinster my family had chickens. They'd peck their babies to death and attack you. They are evil and merely luring that boy into a false sense of security. They cannot be trusted.

My family has had a back yard poultry operation too . We initially made the mistake of mixing red stars with black giants . The red stars actually pecked to death the black giants , and then proceeded to devour them . So in addition to being vicious , they can be racist cannibals . As to my thoughts on vegetarianism , I think that largely for ecological reasons I would be willing to be a pescatarian . However I would personally find veganism to be too daunting . In order to have well balanced nutrition with a vegan diet , it seems to me to require planning comparable to that of the Soviet economy . I suspect that the reason why so many vegans might end up becoming malnourished is because they had not properly researched what needs to go into meal preparation , in order to ensure a well balanced diet . They likely are just following it as a fad , based upon the example of some celebrity role model . So that's why I tend to favor pescatarianism , so that I have a rich source of essential fatty acids . That and I happen to like the taste of fish , especially dressed with tartar sauce .