[layman]

Being a foreigner, she probably didn't expect policemen to shoot the nearest person on hearing a loud bang.

More fool her.

[Suntzu]

Somalian policeman, gotta be a joke in that somewhere.

[Ned Lud]

[Suntzu]

[One Degree]

I just don't think most people understand who it is the police deal with on a daily basis that creates the atmosphere of shooting quickly. I just got an amber alert on my phone yesterday. A 2, 3, and 7 year old in extreme danger after being abducted by their 22 year old mother (do the math). No one knows what clothing any of the children were wearing. What are the odds these 3 kids have any hope of being rational adults. Their mother is a threat and no one else even knows what clothes they were wearing. Maybe these kids and definitely their parents are lunatics the police must deal with every day. The police are not dealing with rational people, they are dealing with crazies who have little concept of societal norms. The police must be alert for sudden irrational attacks. Yes, I would like for it to be different, but it is not.
The fireworks story makes sense this way, but it does not make it any less horrific. When we blame the police, we are just using them as an excuse for what our society creates.

[Heisenberg]

In this case, the police were dealing with a rational person. Namely, a civilian who called the police to report a possible crime. This is what you are "supposed" to do, and it is not "irrational" or "crazy". The police certainly had no right to assume that she was dangerous, or to shoot her instantly upon "hearing a loud bang".

If you can't deal with the stress or stay calm under even the slightest bit of pressure, you should not be a police officer in the first place. I don't care that it's a difficult job: I already know that, because my father was a police officer in Britain for 20 years, including a period as a firearms officer. Miraculously, he didn't manage to kill anyone during that time, because we train our officers properly and don't assume everyone is a target.

[One Degree]

In this case, the police were dealing with a rational person. Namely, a civilian who called the police to report a possible crime. This is what you are "supposed" to do, and it is not "irrational" or "crazy". The police certainly had no right to assume that she was dangerous, or to shoot her instantly upon "hearing a loud bang".

If you can't deal with the stress or stay calm under even the slightest bit of pressure, you should not be a police officer in the first place. I don't care that it's a difficult job: I already know that, because my father was a police officer in Britain for 20 years, including a period as a firearms officer. Miraculously, he didn't manage to kill anyone during that time, because we train our officers properly and don't assume everyone is a target.

I never said anything was 'right' about this. As I said in an earlier post, the shots through the door would only be the result of extreme panic. I was simply trying to explain why this type of panic should not be unexpected in police officers. Very few police officers in the US ever fire their weapons. This is why every instance requires leave during an inquiry. If it were common, this process would bring police enforcement to a stand still. This, like all the news stories, are the rare instances when everything went wrong. 99.99% of the time things work out fine. You will never get perfection from people under this kind of pressure.

Edit: The kind of calm and professionalism you are asking for could only be acquired by a person who had already been in the situation many times before. Someone who had already shot people could do it. Police officers, who have never fired their weapon, can not learn this type of discipline from simple training.

[Heisenberg]

I never said anything was 'right' about this. As I said in an earlier post, the shots through the door would only be the result of extreme panic. I was simply trying to explain why this type of panic should not be unexpected in police officers.

No, "panic" should be unexpected in police officers, if they are trained properly. Everyone who chooses to become a police officer knows it's a dangerous job. Jumpy, trigger-happy idiots like this prat should be weeded out as early in the process as possible.

Very few police officers in the US ever fire their weapons.

I'm sure that's very comforting to the 1,000 or so who are killed by the police every year.

The kind of calm and professionalism you are asking for could only be acquired by a person who had already been in the situation many times before. Someone who had already shot people could do it. Police officers, who have never fired their weapon, can not learn this type of discipline from simple training.

Hang on - the only way you can learn the discipline required to not shoot someone is if you've already shot someone?

If police officers cannot be trusted to use their weapons responsibly, they are either not being trained properly, or should not be carrying weapons in the first place. Of course, since I wasn't raised with America's insane culture of gun worship and authority worship, my preference is for the latter.

[Ned Lud]

The only answer is not to shower bang-bangs on ignorant undisciplined racists, surely? In this case, of course, she'll have had an Australian accent, which obviously deserves execution. Probably an Aborigine, if the truth be known.

[One Degree]

No, "panic" should be unexpected in police officers, if they are trained properly. Everyone who chooses to become a police officer knows it's a dangerous job. Jumpy, trigger-happy idiots like this prat should be weeded out as early in the process as possible.


I'm sure that's very comforting to the 1,000 or so who are killed by the police every year.


Hang on - the only way you can learn the discipline required to not shoot someone is if you've already shot someone?

If police officers cannot be trusted to use their weapons responsibly, they are either not being trained properly, or should not be carrying weapons in the first place. Of course, since I wasn't raised with America's insane culture of gun worship and authority worship, my preference is for the latter.

Please explain to me how you can train someone to overcome fear when they believe their life is in danger. You can't even understand it, let alone overcome it, until you face it. This is accepted as common knowledge for soldiers, yet we expect it not to be true for the police. Training is helpful, but all the training in the world can not prepare you for the feelings you get when you believe someone is shooting at you. This is the ultimate 'fight or flight' scenario. Primitive reaction takes over, not careful analysis.

[Heisenberg]

Please explain to me how you can train someone to overcome fear when they believe their life is in danger.

For starters, you can train them to recognise when there life may actually be in danger, rather than just assuming it is at all times. The fact that this woman was shot through a car door suggests the police officer had already drawn his gun, and was behaving in a ridiculously dangerous manner with it (I am willing to bet his partner was more than a little pissed off that he was waving a pistol around inside a fucking car), before the "loud bang" was heard. Current US police trainingclearly reinforces this stupid "fear everyone and panic at all times" mentality. A cursory look at the wild disparity between civilians killed by officers (around 1,000 a year) and officers killed by criminals (about 50 a year, and declining) illustrates this nicely.

You might not be able to train people to act perfectly under pressure, but you can train them to assess and evaluate a situation much better than the current system. American policing is held in contempt by every other country in the developed world, and it's not because we're jealous of your extreme manliness. Quite the opposite, in fact. You're putting bed-wetting children in uniform, and telling them that everyone is trying to kill them.

[One Degree]

For starters, you can train them to recognise when there life may actually be in danger, rather than just assuming it is at all times. The fact that this woman was shot through a car door suggests the police officer had already drawn his gun, and was behaving in a ridiculously dangerous manner with it (I am willing to bet his partner was more than a little pissed off that he was waving a pistol around inside a fucking car), before the "loud bang" was heard. Current US police trainingclearly reinforces this stupid "fear everyone and panic at all times" mentality. A cursory look at the wild disparity between civilians killed by officers (around 1,000 a year) and officers killed by criminals (about 50 a year, and declining) illustrates this nicely.

You might not be able to train people to act perfectly under pressure, but you can train them to assess and evaluate a situation much better than the current system. American policing is held in contempt by every other country in the developed world, and it's not because we're jealous of your extreme manliness. Quite the opposite, in fact. You're putting bed-wetting children in uniform, and telling them that everyone is trying to kill them.

You offer some valid views even though I will take issue with some of your 'facts'.
I have never seen a report saying the officer had his gun out before the fireworks went off. Do you recall the source?
Also, your source on police killings declining is a wild distortion. Even the liberal media in the US has reported the tremendous increase in shooting of police officers.
Every police department is under scrutiny and all are trying to find better applicants, but again, how do you determine how someone will act under fire until they are under fire. None of us know until it happens and we don't even know if we will react the same way next time, even though it is a good indicator. For example: Even though I am old and should not, I know I will react with violence if attacked. The only reason I know this is because I always have on many, many occasions before. You can not know this without a long exposure and even then you may react differently. This is something that happens too fast for our conscious minds to comprehend.

[Pants-of-dog]

Let me know if I miss any racist groups
The police, courts, oversight boards, federal prosecutors, state prosecutors, must all be in on a racist conspiracy that lets police get away with shooting Blacks.
You find this believable?

Yes, because it is not a conspiracy. It doesn't require any secrets to be kept, for example. Everyone is openly letting cops get away with it.

-----------------

You are very confusing. When it suits your needs you take 3 words from a 100 word paragraph someone typed and dissect the meaning and twist the grammar and misrepresent. However as clever as you thought you were being this quote from this very thread tells a different story."If I wanted to kill someone in the US, I would become a cop and then I could shoot them in broad daylight and get away with it. It is not just "you" singular or "yourself" it is rhetorical by definition. You put the entire " group" and " institution" as corrupt people with he tendency to want to murder/kill others unjustly.

Yes, you seem to be easily confused.

For example, you seem to think that group behaviour and institutional behaviour arebthe same thing.

[Heisenberg]

I have never seen a report saying the officer had his gun out before the fireworks went off. Do you recall the source?

I'm speculating, admittedly. However, unless this officer had some Wild West quick draw skills, it's not too much of an assumption. After all, he apparently shot this woman immediately after hearing a loud bang.

Also, your source on police killings declining is a wild distortion.

Please show how. My source contains official statistics, while you are yet to respond with anything resembling a fact. Just stuff about how police officers have a right to kill yoga instructors in their pyjamas because they might be a bit scared of loud noises.

Every police department is under scrutiny and all are trying to find better applicants, but again, how do you determine how someone will act under fire until they are under fire. None of us know until it happens and we don't even know if we will react the same way next time, even though it is a good indicator.

"Hearing fireworks" is not "under fire". I mean, for fuck's sake, a basic sense of hearing would be enough to indicate that the "loud bang" did not come from the unarmed woman talking to the officer in the driver's seat.

[maz]

People are outraged, and all we are getting from the mayor is "homina homina homina."

I guess the blacks do have a point in noting the hypocrisy of the outrage from white people over this shooting.

[One Degree]

I'm speculating, admittedly. However, unless this officer had some Wild West quick draw skills, it's not too much of an assumption. After all, he apparently shot this woman immediately after hearing a loud bang.


Please show how. My source contains official statistics, while you are yet to respond with anything resembling a fact. Just stuff about how police officers have a right to kill yoga instructors in their pyjamas because they might be a bit scared of loud noises.


"Hearing fireworks" is not "under fire". I mean, for fuck's sake, a basic sense of hearing would be enough to indicate that the "loud bang" did not come from the unarmed woman talking to the officer in the driver's seat.

Police deaths spike 39% in 2017 - Washington Examiner
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/polic ... le/2623103
May 15, 2017 - The National law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund said Monday that 50 police have been killed this year. In 2016 at this time, the number ...

I have the same questions you do, and I am interested to see how this bizarre scenario came about.

[One Degree]

People are outraged, and all we are getting from the mayor is "homina homina homina."

I guess the blacks do have a point in noting the hypocrisy of the outrage from white people over this shooting.

Race is a factor, but I don't think it is the major factor. I think our outrage is determined by our 'perceived' level of value the individual had to society. This lady is presented as an ideal citizen. I think, with Black victims also, most people's outrage is determined by this perceived value even though political motivations disguise it somewhat with black victims.

[Beren]

Trump can not even pass an immigration ban that he has every legal right to do, yet police officers can shoot people and not be held accountable? :?: How is that possible?

Maybe you just made a good hint as to whether how powerful police in America are. Even the president has been kissing their arses since he decided to run for office.

[One Degree]

Maybe you just made a good hint as to whether how powerful police in America are. Even the president has been kissing their arses since he decided to run for office.

I would not be surprised if his support of the police was more important than 'bringing jobs back' to get him elected. Most people like their police and deeply resented Obama and Hillary badmouthing them.
I view the average police officer as being more interested in finding a place to park to play video games till his shift ends, than wanting to go out looking for people to shoot. Maybe this is another difference between Los Angeles and New York where people don't know their police officers and smaller communities that have more interaction with them outside of criminal contact.

[One Degree]

One of the officer's lawyer said she was pounding on the roof of the car at the same time the fireworks went off.
Both officers combined only had 3 years on the force. I have no idea why 2 rookies would be together.
The lawyer said they may have suspected an ambush because the call was similar to one in a New York ambush.
The officer who did the shooting has refused to be interviewed by investigators. He does have a legal right to refuse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40661873