Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Women to date have chosen to not go into technical fields at the same rate as men, while on the other hand they have chosen to go into fields such as psychology where they now absolutely dominate. Yet, women are constantly being told what they should want to do and that they are being held back and prevented from exercising their real choices by some sinister and oppressive force. Furthermore, the opinion of some Google employee is apparently enough to make us women, fragile little flowers that we are, feel threatened and shy away from our true calling.
The push for "diversity" presumes racism, sexism, homophobia or some other "ism" or "phobia" that results in the "oppression" of some class. My company is 80% white male. We have a diversity program, and getting women and minorities onto the payroll is an objective at our company. The problem that James Damore pointed out is that women (and other minorities) often choose NOT to pursue STEM degrees, and so aren't qualified or seeking jobs in STEM companies.
MB wrote:Honestly, I think a lot of this goes back to the US military-industrial complex (MIC). Women are an integral part of that system, notably, because they (especially mothers) represent a group that is usually opposed to military-industrial projects. A major victory for the establishment has been getting more women into the military and STEM since this helps to destroy opposition to military-industrialism. STEM fields themselves are basically holding grounds/farms for the production of military technology for the US Department of Defence, and there is a concerted effort by such groups the STEM coalition, to get more women into STEM fields for reasons of national defence.
Maybe. A lot of three-letter agencies that like to spy on people use our stuff. So I guess that's why I'm doing my military-industrial duty. However, James Damore was just pointing out that women don't seem to choose to study STEM, and so the diversity gap at Google may not be sexism. The irony of firing Damore is that Google's senior management is saying that the reason that they have a diversity gap is precisely because they ARE sexist. It's a pretty strange stance to take when the Justice Department is investigating them.
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:There's some irony in the fact that Google makes most of its revenues from advertising which is based on nothing but stereotyping.
Especially since they save all your queries to decide who you are and what you might want to buy next.
The other irony is that Damore was essentially arguing that the "diversity gap" isn't necessarily due to sexism, and he got fired for that conclusion. That's a really odd position for senior management to take whilst under federal investigation.
MB wrote:Google also generates profit by supplying bulk data collection and analysis to the US government. Edward Snowden's leaks demonstrated that Google was completely complicit in bulk data collection and analytics for the US intelligence agencies.
Creepy, I know, but I actually agree with you here. That's also a big part of the push for smart phones, which are essentially bugs for the state. They can turn on your microphone or camera and spy on you at will. In spite of the capabilities, most of it is a colossal waste of time and money, but makes the deep staters feel powerful and all-knowing; hence, their arrogance even when they've been caught in huge lies, etc.
MB wrote:The more I think about it, the clearer it becomes that this person was fired to protect the integrity of Google as a component of the US national security system. An attack on women in STEM is basically an attack on that system, since the MIC needs as many new technicians as it can get to remain competitive with its rivals.
That could be it, but it was sort of a knuckle-headed firing since the senior management is basically claiming that they are in fact sexist.
MB wrote:Little did he realize he was stepping on the toes of the US Defence Department and sacrosanct US national security.
Well, deep state has seriously fucked up and can't admit it. The idea of Facebook, Twitter and other social media was that they would be able to influence foreign powers. The problem is that it's a two-way street, and our enemies can use it to radicalize jihadis everywhere. Additionally, it led to non-establishment approved candidates like Donald Trump using social media and his own deep pockets to blow establishment candidates away. Privately, everyone is more sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever in attitudes than they are in public. Deep state thinks that they can change the world to whatever their "expert" opinion says is "better." On the contrary, a lot of things are blowing up in their face in a way that is not intuitive to them.
Saeko wrote:Wow, this memo is not only not racist/sexist, it is also quite reasonable overall.
Indeed, the one written by James Damore that wasn't edited is reasonable. So Google has screwed the pooch on this one and essentially and inadvertently ratified what Damore was talking about in terms of an ideological echo chamber.
B0ycey wrote:Personally I think Google have messed up here.
Yes, but I don't agree with your conclusion. I don't think James Damore is going to be a misogynist hero, but rather an alt-right hero as he has already been interviewed by libertarians like Stefan Molyneux. The greater irony is that Google's own YouTube will give him far more airtime than the mainstream media will, and will further the erosion of the media/political complex. As MB points out, MIC is a part of it, and they directly pay the media to further their propaganda.
AFIAK wrote:If you want to belittle or demean women pick on the housewives and full time mothers. Feminists love to shit on women who make their own life choices rather than be ushered through affirmative action programs or follow the directions of those who pursued gender studies rather than STEM.
Right, and they have to defend their educational elites from the fact that gender studies degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
The Immortal Goon wrote: I suppose I could write a big manifesto about hiring practices, but why the fuck would I care--even if I were a creep that thought women getting hired was bad?
In large, publicly-traded companies, they have these sorts of mandatory training sessions. I have to take annual ethics training, sexual harassment training (I work remote from home,
) and stuff like not to engage in insider trading or bribing government officials in the US or abroad. I suppose at Google that they put them through mandatory sexism training and he was just pointing out that maybe the problem isn't sexism, but that women pursue STEM degrees at 1/5 the rate of men by choice.
The Immortal Goon wrote:What kind of pansy-ass job does this guy have where he writes this up and doesn't fear his manager coming in and saying, "Since you seem to have so much extra time on your hands..."
He was a programmer. It's pansy ass, but it requires rigorous adherence to Boolean logic.
The Immortal Goon wrote:Making a papertrail, sending it to everyone, and then getting a legion of creepy redpill virgins to defend you on the internet...It's a pathetic new breed of misogynist.
I disagree. It's just someone sick of being compelled into the "re-education" or "indoctrination" of modern leftist political correctness. In other words, Google is insisting that it is sexist and that's why they have a gender diversity gap.
colliric wrote:He's a software engineer..... He sits at his desk probably bored shitless most of the time(even when working typing code). It's a fucking boring job....
So he decided to write something else for a change to keep himself from going nuts from boredom from sitting in front of a goddamn computer all day, everyday.
Yep. And he's saying, "You're insisting we're all sexist, but what if we aren't. What if women don't want to sit at a computer all day and do Boolean logic?" Answer? "You're fired!"
MB wrote:Military industrial complex.
I'm telling you people.
Yea, and that's why those people end up working for or doing things on behalf of WikiLeaks and the absurdity of the MIC gets exposed.
Potemkin wrote:Precisely. This guy is a Harvard graduate with a plumb job at Google, but apparently he's not smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut. He seems to think his bosses need his enlightened guidance to take their hiring practices to the next level. Lol.
Well, then again, maybe he's going to move to a red state and run for Congress.
Decky wrote:Middle class people really do have a huge sense of entitlement. What do you think would have happened to me on the scaffold or in the factory if I had sat down and starting writing a treatise on why women/ jews/ blacks/ whoever should not be hired in that workplace instead of working? I would be out before I had finished the first page for not working. Why is it middle class people think they have some god given right not to be fired?
Well, Damore didn't say they shouldn't be hired. I've said the same thing here with respect to blacks in high tech. The first word out of everyone's mouth is "racist." The difference is that I do that here, and not at work. Yet, I point out to people here that if you can get me a black who can program in C/C++, Java or Python, I'll put their resume to HR strait away and if successful they will be looking at a six figure income. That is, I'm willing to get them some "white privelege." Why? I will get a bonus for this. It's in my financial interest to do so. What do I get from people here who call me a racist? Not a peep. They can't produce a single resume. It's the same problem that Damore pointed out, but with an additional twist. Blacks on balance get poorer educations than whites, and the establishment opposes charter schools and school vouchers that would help blacks with stronger abilities for Boolean algebra and discrete math to get the education they need to succeed in STEM. The establishment (Democrats much more than Republicans in both cases) also work feverishly to maintain single-parent female-headed households among blacks. Programming is male dominant, and most blacks do not have a male role model in the house. I'm not interested in becoming a folk hero, but I do find it fun screwing with the establishment's head, since they made it their passion to try to determine what I think.
Decky wrote:He deserved to be fired for writing any 3000 word essay on company time before you even get into what it was about.
Ruffling the establishment's feathers is fun, Decky. You don't normally kiss the high bourgeoisie's arse. What's up with you? STEM jobs, particularly programming, is often impacted. They are in great need, and that's why they get paid well. We've had this discussion--my boss' boss' boss--who notes that in every country in which we operate, we've already hired every available STEM person who speaks English. If you can speak Russian, for example, you can hire PhDs that can't speak English for $25k a year.
Hong Wu wrote:He's probably going to sue and get a million dollars.
He could probably do that by just going on "Go Fund Me."
One Degree wrote:We don't know what interactions led up to his decision to write the memo.
I think it's all the compulsory sexism and "unconscious bias" training. Generally, in places like Google, the people who are compelled to take that rubbish are far smarter than the sociology majors that push this horseshit. So they basically do stuff like Damore did as a bit of well-crafted rebellion. That's why Damore is a bit of a folk hero on the alt right now.
Decky wrote:Sue for what? If I turned up to a job tomorrow and wrote a fucking essay instead of working I would be fired before lunchtime and the agency would never bother to find me another job and I would certainly be in no position to sue anyone about it. I really can't imagine what kind of case people think this guy has.
I don't think there is a strong case for wrongful termination, but potentially for defamation of character. Damore did not push negative gender stereotypes. Everything he said was factual and backed up by peer-reviewed scientific literature, which he cited in his memo. They can fire him, but they cannot say that he did something he clearly didn't do.
Decky wrote:So his problem was that he got a paid holiday to China? God to live the life of the middle class. The poor devil, I don't know how he managed to stick at the job as long as he did before he started goofing off and writing nonsense at his desk.
Yes, it is pretty glorious. In Silicon Valley, they have breakfast, lunch and dinner served to you so you don't leave the office for a full lunch hour, or you'll come in early and leave late to avoid the rush hour traffic. There's ping-pong, billiards, etc. If you work in the entertainment sector of technology (video games and animation), they serve you alcohol at work too. I've literally gone into the break room at 11:00 a.m. for my third cup of coffee and heard, "Fuck! ... There's no more beer!" We literally had two beer taps both upstairs and downstairs. I always laugh at that memory. I drink my fair share, and I always marvel at that one. "Who drinks beer at 11:00 a.m.? Who drinks beer at work? Who gets pissed off at management for not having any beer on tap at 11:00 a.m. at work?" Believe me, I've lived it. I'd do it again, except I work at home and not having to drive two hours a day is enough that I'm willing to pay for my own food. It's that kind of good...
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Fuck google just being PC and playing to the hands of feminazis
you dont see alot of women in hi tech for the same reason you dont see them working in a garage
Good point. They do have a few women bomber and fighter pilots in the military. So MB does have a point here.
Potemkin wrote:So he was dumb enough to leave a paper trail? I suppose this is one of the drawbacks of the modern internet age - even sounding off in the virtual equivalent of a pub with your mates leaves a paper trail. Mind you, as an internet whizzkid himself, he should have been aware of this. I have no sympathy.
He doesn't need sympathy. Google does. They're screwing themselves in hiring and they've screwed themselves in front of the Justice Department in effect insisting that they are indeed sexist.
Beren quoting Lamore wrote:'The popular conception is just that, you know, the right doesn't understand science at all and it's anti-science, and it's true that they often deny evolution and climate science but, or climate change, but the left also has its own things that it denies, so biological differences between people, in this case, you know, sex differences.'
Either he nailed it or he must be a misogynist (and racist perhaps).
That popular conception is pushed by the left. They don't tolerate any diversity of opinion. Diversity of race, sex, gender identity, national origin, or religion is fine, provided you accept their political dogma. For example, I don't deny that CO2 is increasing or that temperature has increased over that last 2-300 years. I do think they overplay CO2 as a cause of warming, and they ignore the urban heat island effect. I also point out that greenhouses aren't warmer, because of CO2 but rather because they block convection. That is scientific. If you pay a scientist, they will put their right hand on a bible, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in a court of law and then go on to say there is no definitive link between smoking cigarettes and cancer. So they will willingly say they believe in "greenhouse gasses" in their IPCC reports. Obviously, anyone with any scientific training is going to point out the absurdity of such terminology, or terms like "renewable energy." Some people indeed do deny evolution. However, some only argue that evolution doesn't explain life. It explains specialization reasonably well, but it is totally lacking for the purposes of the origin of life.
Beren wrote:Will Molyneux's channel stay, by the way? Just asking.
They have a real dilemma. If they block people like him, someone will just come up with FreedomTube and YouTube will lose a ton of business. Patreon has tried shutting down Lauren Southern, but it doesn't seem to be working.
JohnRawls wrote:He got fired for no apparent reason honestly.
He essentially got fired for political insubordination. That is legal. You can refuse to hire people who disagree with you politically in the United States. You can't do the same thing with religion though.
JohnRawls wrote:So if google wants to have a 50-50% diverse work force than it will have to take only 20% of male candidates and ALL female candidates. This is a system of discrimination which is not based on merit.
Right. It's an untenable position. Or you will have to hire unqualified women and pretend that they are qualified and doing their jobs to management's satisfaction. I'm guessing that this is what the feminists (marxists) want. It's always about wealth redistribution.
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:That's totally missing the point, which is the massive overreaction to one guy's opinion and why we care so much about it. The whole thing has features of religious fanaticism where we make an example of heretics.
That's exactly it. The problem is that they probably didn't read what he wrote, caused a bunch of unwanted publicity for Google, and then precipitated a firing which is by many people's views manifestly unfair--and counterproductive, since they essentially ratified Damore's point that Google has an ideological echo chamber.
B0cey wrote:Where Damore missed the point was that Google are trying to promote diversity and opportunity in their company, which is why these systems are put into place. Instead he was trying to imply that biology made these systems futile. Yet we have women in tech! So why not strive for more? At least promote the agenda.
I've done exactly that with a bit of tongue-in-cheek with respect to blacks in STEM. The problem is that the establishment does not recognize the failure of their own policies in destroying the black family, preventing blacks from getting quality education (because we can't fire incompetent teachers or the unions will get mad), and realizing that affirmative action doesn't help people who aren't ready for STEM studies. Rather, it causes them to fail while incurring debts they don't have the income-earning power to repay. Today's establishment lacks introspection.
B0cey wrote:Where Google missed the point is that they want to be an open and honest company. If they are going to fire someone because they make a criticism and then bogusly fire him without defending/explaining their policies, how can they advocate free speech?
Well, that's the fraud of multiculturalism. They don't support free speech. They support racial, gender, national, religious and sexual-orientation diversity, provided you hate whites, Christians, men, or tolerate those who do and will tow their ideological line.
Bulaba Jones wrote:I saw his comment about the gender-only classes, and not knowing what he actually means (if he wants there to be no classes, or simply no classes that discriminate based on gender/race) makes it ambiguous whether that's sexist or he's just not wording himself very well.
It's the tedium of modern society in large, publicly-traded companies. While the work can be challenging and interesting and the pay very nice, the eye-rolling "training" they put you through is tedious to say the least. See, I have my employers to thank for not going around and bribing public officials (sarcasm). Had they not put me through that training, my first instinct would be to go bribe a public official.
Decky wrote:Are all middle class people this naive? Do you all actually belie you are allowed to write huge essays slagging off your bosses without loosing your job? No shelf stacker or labourer or warehouse worker would be this dense but you all seem to see what he did as a normal thing that would not get you fired?
Just get a book on Python and start learning. Join the dark side. You don't actually get to tell your boss to fuck off or anything, but it may feel that way. It's a nice existence.
Decky wrote:They guy must have learning difficulties or something.
Programmers are notoriously borderline autistic. Engineers have great math skills but terrible social skills.
The Immortal Goon wrote:Ivy League schools do not give out grades. It would hurt their brand to do so. Simply saying, "I went to Yale," is supposed to be enough to ensure a privileged life and trump and dissent. Into such privilege, the best minds are often plucked from here and there to support the claim. But in the end, the governor's dimwitted son that spent four years playing tennis and drinking champaign with prostitutes, essentially gets the same grades, prestige, and rewards as the Chinese scientist shipped over to do work in the most expensive laboratory humanity has ever created.
That's very well put, particularly your comment on brand. Most people don't see them as a business, because most of them are not for profit. Yet, that's exactly what they are.
Decky wrote:You know I wasn't talk to you, I was talking to the posters acting like the guy has went through some sort of terrible injustice.
Well, in high-tech, you are often paid for your cognitive abilities. As I said, engineers usually have great math skills and somewhat deficient social skills. He was fired for heresy for all practical purposes.
One Degree wrote:I am very confused why Communists think it is stupid for a worker to expect to have the right to speak up? :?: Are you only into martyrdom?
I was wondering if I was the only one finding the resident Marxists defending the rights of the high bourgeoisie over the proletariat.
Decky wrote:Why? Is stupidity really something that should be rewarded?
Sticking it to today's establishment is fun. They won't even let Ezekial Elliot play for six games, because his girlfriend "accused" him of abuse. Is football a sport, or is it an outlet for the establishment's pathetic feminist religion? Does he get a fair trial? Does he get a presumption of innocence? Or is this another instance of where we are supposed to go along with the lynching of a black man in furtherance of feminism?
NFL suspends Cowboy Ezekiel Elliott for 6 games... and still they can't figure out why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump.
"We have put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics."
-- Joe Biden