[snapdragon]

I've no problem with telling people I'm a woman with three adult daughters, two of whom are programmers, the other a lawyer, currently a fee earner, seriously considering a change of career for personal reasons.

Men like this one are a pain and sacking him was the right thing to do. The reasons not many women enter the field of technology are varied and complicated, but none of them are really valid and the situation is changing.

This bonehead is not someone any woman would feel comfortable working with, let alone for.

It's already a quite competitive field, without adding more complications.

[Igor Antunov]

Please read this in its entirety, it explains why women are so sparse in technical fields and why this will always be the case: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-vo ... -happened/

This memo even alluded to the findings in this study.

Long story, short, it has nothing to do with the workplace or technical ability of potential applicants for such roles. Almost all of the disparity (once you account for interest in stem fields) comes from the way men and women take rejection. Just read it..

[MistyTiger]

I don't like when he says that women have a "lower stress tolerance" than men. I disagree because it is very stressful for women who raise 2 or 3 young toddlers at home, the kids have so much energy and they can get into things. Can a man handle that and keep the house in working order? And at my new job, my boss is a woman and she is often very busy...coordinating work between several field offices. She is always busy and yet she manages her stress well. She is able to laugh and smile everyday. She handles her high stress job very well.

Anyone can learn how to handle a high load of stress. It is about organization and prioritizing.

Regarding "higher drive for status", I disagree. My boss started as a small clerk and she worked her way up to a regional manager. She has done well for herself. She is motivated and very responsible. Any woman can be ambitious. And by the way, she has children and she is married. She just had this drive to succeed.

[blackjack21]

Women to date have chosen to not go into technical fields at the same rate as men, while on the other hand they have chosen to go into fields such as psychology where they now absolutely dominate. Yet, women are constantly being told what they should want to do and that they are being held back and prevented from exercising their real choices by some sinister and oppressive force. Furthermore, the opinion of some Google employee is apparently enough to make us women, fragile little flowers that we are, feel threatened and shy away from our true calling.

The push for "diversity" presumes racism, sexism, homophobia or some other "ism" or "phobia" that results in the "oppression" of some class. My company is 80% white male. We have a diversity program, and getting women and minorities onto the payroll is an objective at our company. The problem that James Damore pointed out is that women (and other minorities) often choose NOT to pursue STEM degrees, and so aren't qualified or seeking jobs in STEM companies.

Honestly, I think a lot of this goes back to the US military-industrial complex (MIC). Women are an integral part of that system, notably, because they (especially mothers) represent a group that is usually opposed to military-industrial projects. A major victory for the establishment has been getting more women into the military and STEM since this helps to destroy opposition to military-industrialism. STEM fields themselves are basically holding grounds/farms for the production of military technology for the US Department of Defence, and there is a concerted effort by such groups the STEM coalition, to get more women into STEM fields for reasons of national defence.

Maybe. A lot of three-letter agencies that like to spy on people use our stuff. So I guess that's why I'm doing my military-industrial duty. However, James Damore was just pointing out that women don't seem to choose to study STEM, and so the diversity gap at Google may not be sexism. The irony of firing Damore is that Google's senior management is saying that the reason that they have a diversity gap is precisely because they ARE sexist. It's a pretty strange stance to take when the Justice Department is investigating them.

There's some irony in the fact that Google makes most of its revenues from advertising which is based on nothing but stereotyping.

Especially since they save all your queries to decide who you are and what you might want to buy next. The other irony is that Damore was essentially arguing that the "diversity gap" isn't necessarily due to sexism, and he got fired for that conclusion. That's a really odd position for senior management to take whilst under federal investigation.

Google also generates profit by supplying bulk data collection and analysis to the US government. Edward Snowden's leaks demonstrated that Google was completely complicit in bulk data collection and analytics for the US intelligence agencies.

Creepy, I know, but I actually agree with you here. That's also a big part of the push for smart phones, which are essentially bugs for the state. They can turn on your microphone or camera and spy on you at will. In spite of the capabilities, most of it is a colossal waste of time and money, but makes the deep staters feel powerful and all-knowing; hence, their arrogance even when they've been caught in huge lies, etc.

The more I think about it, the clearer it becomes that this person was fired to protect the integrity of Google as a component of the US national security system. An attack on women in STEM is basically an attack on that system, since the MIC needs as many new technicians as it can get to remain competitive with its rivals.

That could be it, but it was sort of a knuckle-headed firing since the senior management is basically claiming that they are in fact sexist.

Little did he realize he was stepping on the toes of the US Defence Department and sacrosanct US national security.

Well, deep state has seriously fucked up and can't admit it. The idea of Facebook, Twitter and other social media was that they would be able to influence foreign powers. The problem is that it's a two-way street, and our enemies can use it to radicalize jihadis everywhere. Additionally, it led to non-establishment approved candidates like Donald Trump using social media and his own deep pockets to blow establishment candidates away. Privately, everyone is more sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever in attitudes than they are in public. Deep state thinks that they can change the world to whatever their "expert" opinion says is "better." On the contrary, a lot of things are blowing up in their face in a way that is not intuitive to them.

Wow, this memo is not only not racist/sexist, it is also quite reasonable overall.

Indeed, the one written by James Damore that wasn't edited is reasonable. So Google has screwed the pooch on this one and essentially and inadvertently ratified what Damore was talking about in terms of an ideological echo chamber.

Personally I think Google have messed up here.

Yes, but I don't agree with your conclusion. I don't think James Damore is going to be a misogynist hero, but rather an alt-right hero as he has already been interviewed by libertarians like Stefan Molyneux. The greater irony is that Google's own YouTube will give him far more airtime than the mainstream media will, and will further the erosion of the media/political complex. As MB points out, MIC is a part of it, and they directly pay the media to further their propaganda.

If you want to belittle or demean women pick on the housewives and full time mothers. Feminists love to shit on women who make their own life choices rather than be ushered through affirmative action programs or follow the directions of those who pursued gender studies rather than STEM.

Right, and they have to defend their educational elites from the fact that gender studies degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

I suppose I could write a big manifesto about hiring practices, but why the fuck would I care--even if I were a creep that thought women getting hired was bad?

In large, publicly-traded companies, they have these sorts of mandatory training sessions. I have to take annual ethics training, sexual harassment training (I work remote from home, ) and stuff like not to engage in insider trading or bribing government officials in the US or abroad. I suppose at Google that they put them through mandatory sexism training and he was just pointing out that maybe the problem isn't sexism, but that women pursue STEM degrees at 1/5 the rate of men by choice.

What kind of pansy-ass job does this guy have where he writes this up and doesn't fear his manager coming in and saying, "Since you seem to have so much extra time on your hands..."

He was a programmer. It's pansy ass, but it requires rigorous adherence to Boolean logic.

Making a papertrail, sending it to everyone, and then getting a legion of creepy redpill virgins to defend you on the internet...It's a pathetic new breed of misogynist.

I disagree. It's just someone sick of being compelled into the "re-education" or "indoctrination" of modern leftist political correctness. In other words, Google is insisting that it is sexist and that's why they have a gender diversity gap.

He's a software engineer..... He sits at his desk probably bored shitless most of the time(even when working typing code). It's a fucking boring job....

So he decided to write something else for a change to keep himself from going nuts from boredom from sitting in front of a goddamn computer all day, everyday.

Yep. And he's saying, "You're insisting we're all sexist, but what if we aren't. What if women don't want to sit at a computer all day and do Boolean logic?" Answer? "You're fired!"

Military industrial complex.

I'm telling you people.

Yea, and that's why those people end up working for or doing things on behalf of WikiLeaks and the absurdity of the MIC gets exposed.

Precisely. This guy is a Harvard graduate with a plumb job at Google, but apparently he's not smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut. He seems to think his bosses need his enlightened guidance to take their hiring practices to the next level. Lol.

Well, then again, maybe he's going to move to a red state and run for Congress.

Middle class people really do have a huge sense of entitlement. What do you think would have happened to me on the scaffold or in the factory if I had sat down and starting writing a treatise on why women/ jews/ blacks/ whoever should not be hired in that workplace instead of working? I would be out before I had finished the first page for not working. Why is it middle class people think they have some god given right not to be fired?

Well, Damore didn't say they shouldn't be hired. I've said the same thing here with respect to blacks in high tech. The first word out of everyone's mouth is "racist." The difference is that I do that here, and not at work. Yet, I point out to people here that if you can get me a black who can program in C/C++, Java or Python, I'll put their resume to HR strait away and if successful they will be looking at a six figure income. That is, I'm willing to get them some "white privelege." Why? I will get a bonus for this. It's in my financial interest to do so. What do I get from people here who call me a racist? Not a peep. They can't produce a single resume. It's the same problem that Damore pointed out, but with an additional twist. Blacks on balance get poorer educations than whites, and the establishment opposes charter schools and school vouchers that would help blacks with stronger abilities for Boolean algebra and discrete math to get the education they need to succeed in STEM. The establishment (Democrats much more than Republicans in both cases) also work feverishly to maintain single-parent female-headed households among blacks. Programming is male dominant, and most blacks do not have a male role model in the house. I'm not interested in becoming a folk hero, but I do find it fun screwing with the establishment's head, since they made it their passion to try to determine what I think.

He deserved to be fired for writing any 3000 word essay on company time before you even get into what it was about.

Ruffling the establishment's feathers is fun, Decky. You don't normally kiss the high bourgeoisie's arse. What's up with you? STEM jobs, particularly programming, is often impacted. They are in great need, and that's why they get paid well. We've had this discussion--my boss' boss' boss--who notes that in every country in which we operate, we've already hired every available STEM person who speaks English. If you can speak Russian, for example, you can hire PhDs that can't speak English for $25k a year.

He's probably going to sue and get a million dollars.

He could probably do that by just going on "Go Fund Me."

We don't know what interactions led up to his decision to write the memo.

I think it's all the compulsory sexism and "unconscious bias" training. Generally, in places like Google, the people who are compelled to take that rubbish are far smarter than the sociology majors that push this horseshit. So they basically do stuff like Damore did as a bit of well-crafted rebellion. That's why Damore is a bit of a folk hero on the alt right now.

Sue for what? If I turned up to a job tomorrow and wrote a fucking essay instead of working I would be fired before lunchtime and the agency would never bother to find me another job and I would certainly be in no position to sue anyone about it. I really can't imagine what kind of case people think this guy has.

I don't think there is a strong case for wrongful termination, but potentially for defamation of character. Damore did not push negative gender stereotypes. Everything he said was factual and backed up by peer-reviewed scientific literature, which he cited in his memo. They can fire him, but they cannot say that he did something he clearly didn't do.

So his problem was that he got a paid holiday to China? God to live the life of the middle class. The poor devil, I don't know how he managed to stick at the job as long as he did before he started goofing off and writing nonsense at his desk.

Yes, it is pretty glorious. In Silicon Valley, they have breakfast, lunch and dinner served to you so you don't leave the office for a full lunch hour, or you'll come in early and leave late to avoid the rush hour traffic. There's ping-pong, billiards, etc. If you work in the entertainment sector of technology (video games and animation), they serve you alcohol at work too. I've literally gone into the break room at 11:00 a.m. for my third cup of coffee and heard, "Fuck! ... There's no more beer!" We literally had two beer taps both upstairs and downstairs. I always laugh at that memory. I drink my fair share, and I always marvel at that one. "Who drinks beer at 11:00 a.m.? Who drinks beer at work? Who gets pissed off at management for not having any beer on tap at 11:00 a.m. at work?" Believe me, I've lived it. I'd do it again, except I work at home and not having to drive two hours a day is enough that I'm willing to pay for my own food. It's that kind of good...

Fuck google just being PC and playing to the hands of feminazis
you dont see alot of women in hi tech for the same reason you dont see them working in a garage

Good point. They do have a few women bomber and fighter pilots in the military. So MB does have a point here.

So he was dumb enough to leave a paper trail? I suppose this is one of the drawbacks of the modern internet age - even sounding off in the virtual equivalent of a pub with your mates leaves a paper trail. Mind you, as an internet whizzkid himself, he should have been aware of this. I have no sympathy.

He doesn't need sympathy. Google does. They're screwing themselves in hiring and they've screwed themselves in front of the Justice Department in effect insisting that they are indeed sexist.

'The popular conception is just that, you know, the right doesn't understand science at all and it's anti-science, and it's true that they often deny evolution and climate science but, or climate change, but the left also has its own things that it denies, so biological differences between people, in this case, you know, sex differences.'

Either he nailed it or he must be a misogynist (and racist perhaps).

That popular conception is pushed by the left. They don't tolerate any diversity of opinion. Diversity of race, sex, gender identity, national origin, or religion is fine, provided you accept their political dogma. For example, I don't deny that CO2 is increasing or that temperature has increased over that last 2-300 years. I do think they overplay CO2 as a cause of warming, and they ignore the urban heat island effect. I also point out that greenhouses aren't warmer, because of CO2 but rather because they block convection. That is scientific. If you pay a scientist, they will put their right hand on a bible, swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in a court of law and then go on to say there is no definitive link between smoking cigarettes and cancer. So they will willingly say they believe in "greenhouse gasses" in their IPCC reports. Obviously, anyone with any scientific training is going to point out the absurdity of such terminology, or terms like "renewable energy." Some people indeed do deny evolution. However, some only argue that evolution doesn't explain life. It explains specialization reasonably well, but it is totally lacking for the purposes of the origin of life.

Will Molyneux's channel stay, by the way? Just asking.

They have a real dilemma. If they block people like him, someone will just come up with FreedomTube and YouTube will lose a ton of business. Patreon has tried shutting down Lauren Southern, but it doesn't seem to be working.

He got fired for no apparent reason honestly.

He essentially got fired for political insubordination. That is legal. You can refuse to hire people who disagree with you politically in the United States. You can't do the same thing with religion though.

So if google wants to have a 50-50% diverse work force than it will have to take only 20% of male candidates and ALL female candidates. This is a system of discrimination which is not based on merit.

Right. It's an untenable position. Or you will have to hire unqualified women and pretend that they are qualified and doing their jobs to management's satisfaction. I'm guessing that this is what the feminists (marxists) want. It's always about wealth redistribution.

That's totally missing the point, which is the massive overreaction to one guy's opinion and why we care so much about it. The whole thing has features of religious fanaticism where we make an example of heretics.

That's exactly it. The problem is that they probably didn't read what he wrote, caused a bunch of unwanted publicity for Google, and then precipitated a firing which is by many people's views manifestly unfair--and counterproductive, since they essentially ratified Damore's point that Google has an ideological echo chamber.

Where Damore missed the point was that Google are trying to promote diversity and opportunity in their company, which is why these systems are put into place. Instead he was trying to imply that biology made these systems futile. Yet we have women in tech! So why not strive for more? At least promote the agenda.

I've done exactly that with a bit of tongue-in-cheek with respect to blacks in STEM. The problem is that the establishment does not recognize the failure of their own policies in destroying the black family, preventing blacks from getting quality education (because we can't fire incompetent teachers or the unions will get mad), and realizing that affirmative action doesn't help people who aren't ready for STEM studies. Rather, it causes them to fail while incurring debts they don't have the income-earning power to repay. Today's establishment lacks introspection.

Where Google missed the point is that they want to be an open and honest company. If they are going to fire someone because they make a criticism and then bogusly fire him without defending/explaining their policies, how can they advocate free speech?

Well, that's the fraud of multiculturalism. They don't support free speech. They support racial, gender, national, religious and sexual-orientation diversity, provided you hate whites, Christians, men, or tolerate those who do and will tow their ideological line.

I saw his comment about the gender-only classes, and not knowing what he actually means (if he wants there to be no classes, or simply no classes that discriminate based on gender/race) makes it ambiguous whether that's sexist or he's just not wording himself very well.

It's the tedium of modern society in large, publicly-traded companies. While the work can be challenging and interesting and the pay very nice, the eye-rolling "training" they put you through is tedious to say the least. See, I have my employers to thank for not going around and bribing public officials (sarcasm). Had they not put me through that training, my first instinct would be to go bribe a public official.

Are all middle class people this naive? Do you all actually belie you are allowed to write huge essays slagging off your bosses without loosing your job? No shelf stacker or labourer or warehouse worker would be this dense but you all seem to see what he did as a normal thing that would not get you fired?

Just get a book on Python and start learning. Join the dark side. You don't actually get to tell your boss to fuck off or anything, but it may feel that way. It's a nice existence.

They guy must have learning difficulties or something.

Programmers are notoriously borderline autistic. Engineers have great math skills but terrible social skills.

Ivy League schools do not give out grades. It would hurt their brand to do so. Simply saying, "I went to Yale," is supposed to be enough to ensure a privileged life and trump and dissent. Into such privilege, the best minds are often plucked from here and there to support the claim. But in the end, the governor's dimwitted son that spent four years playing tennis and drinking champaign with prostitutes, essentially gets the same grades, prestige, and rewards as the Chinese scientist shipped over to do work in the most expensive laboratory humanity has ever created.

That's very well put, particularly your comment on brand. Most people don't see them as a business, because most of them are not for profit. Yet, that's exactly what they are.

You know I wasn't talk to you, I was talking to the posters acting like the guy has went through some sort of terrible injustice.

Well, in high-tech, you are often paid for your cognitive abilities. As I said, engineers usually have great math skills and somewhat deficient social skills. He was fired for heresy for all practical purposes.

I am very confused why Communists think it is stupid for a worker to expect to have the right to speak up? :?: Are you only into martyrdom?

I was wondering if I was the only one finding the resident Marxists defending the rights of the high bourgeoisie over the proletariat.

Why? Is stupidity really something that should be rewarded?

Sticking it to today's establishment is fun. They won't even let Ezekial Elliot play for six games, because his girlfriend "accused" him of abuse. Is football a sport, or is it an outlet for the establishment's pathetic feminist religion? Does he get a fair trial? Does he get a presumption of innocence? Or is this another instance of where we are supposed to go along with the lynching of a black man in furtherance of feminism?

NFL suspends Cowboy Ezekiel Elliott for 6 games

... and still they can't figure out why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump.

[Decky]

Just get a book on Python and start learning. Join the dark side. You don't actually get to tell your boss to fuck off or anything, but it may feel that way. It's a nice existence.

Not a chance, I am male. I do jobs that involve actual work not some bullshit desk sitting vegetable existence. Why would I want to code for a fucking living? I'd rather be dead.

[SolarCross]

Not a chance, I am male. I do jobs that involve actual work not some bullshit desk sitting vegetable existence. Why would I want to code for a fucking living? I'd rather be dead.

Shit tons of money would work for me.

If you must be an alpha jock why not try out as an oil-rig worker? They can make close to 6 figure salaries too.

Myself I'm retraining to drive lorries, the UK has upwards of 100,000 lorry driver jobs going unfilled each year, and shortage is pushing wages up solidly. It's just driving but starting pay is an eminently decent £25k per year. Throw in a few courses on handling toxic and dangerous materials and a few years of experience and £50k is in reach.

Even you could learn to love capitalism if you sorted yourself out with some proper money. No?

[Decky]

I'm not traitor. You might want to do a Prescott but not me. Loyalty is a concept a fascist like you could never understand so I won't waste time trying to explain it to you. I want more money sure and do you know how you get more money? Joining your union and getting more money for you and everyone in your industry together. Look at the tube drivers in London, you could train a chimp to do their job but thanks to the work of the union and their late boss Bob Crow they are all minted.

Rise with your class not above it.

[SpecialOlympian]

Decky likes his job and from the pictures he's posted he seems to be good at it and getting better. I'm lazy and good at talking so talking to rich people suits me fine and I don't want to have Decky's job and I'm glad Decky is happy and not a bitter loser who has to let the internet tell him who to be angry at.

[Decky]

Decky likes his job and from the pictures he's posted he seems to be good at it and getting better. I'm lazy and good at talking so talking to rich people suits me fine and I don't want to have Decky's job and I'm glad Decky is happy and not a bitter loser who has to let the internet tell him who to be angry at.

Like my job, are you on crack? Why would anyone like their jobs that is insane, there is a reason why they have to pay you to turn up. No one in history has ever enjoyed a day working on a building site or in a factory, only a middle class person could even imagine that it is possible. I do it as I don't want to live under a bridge.

[SpecialOlympian]

Yeah jobs suck but you've posted stories about hanging out with people on the site and being proud of stuff you've made that made it sound less shitty.

[Decky]

It is marginally better than being dead I guess (I assume anyway). That is about all I can say for the world of work so far and it will only get worse as I get older and my back starts to go and the winters in particular get harder. But I will carry on as my dad does stacking shelves, as my grandad did as an electrician as my great grandad did in the factory right back to the anonymous peasants who toiled in the dirt for Norman aristocrats because that is the nature of the world.

[Beren]

Look at the tube drivers in London, you could train a chimp to do their job but thanks to the work of the union and their late boss Bob Crow they are all minted.

Why didn't they rather train chimps to do their job then? I'm sure they wouldn't have unionised.

[SpecialOlympian]

Sorry I assumed stuff on your part Decky I was just thinking of that brick arch you made and posted pictures of and you seemed pretty proud of it and it's something I couldn't do and I thought that was cool

[Decky]

Why didn't they rather train chimps to do their job then? I'm sure they wouldn't have unionised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Crow

Robert "Bob" Crow (13 June 1961 – 11 March 2014) was an English trade union leader who served as the General Secretary of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) from 2002 until his death. He was also a member of the General Council of the Trades Union Congress (TUC). A self-described "communist/socialist", he was a leading figure in the No to EU – Yes to Democracy campaign.

Crow joined London Transport in 1977 and soon became involved in trade unionism. He was regarded as part of the Awkward Squad, a loose grouping of left-wing union leaders who came to power in a series of electoral victories beginning in 2002.[1] After he became leader, the RMT's membership increased from around 57,000 in 2002 to more than 80,000 in 2008, making it one of Britain's fastest-growing trade unions.[2][3][4]

Crow was a polarising figure in British politics. Supporters[who?] praised him as a champion of the working class and a successful trade unionist; critics[who?] argued that he held London to ransom with strikes[5] and placed union members above other working people[citation needed]

[Beren]

I'm sure Bob Crow was a fantastic figure, but what could he have done if the dirty employers had decided to train chimps to replace unionised workers?

[Decky]

Went on strike before the chips were paid thus bringing London to a total standstill and preventing the bosses from having the time to train up the chimps. Also who would train them, bosses only know how to sit at desks staring vacantly into space, you would need drivers to train them. Bob ran the drivers with an iron fist and reward them for their loyalty by getting them improbably large wages.

[Beren]

Now I see why underground trains get automated. They neither need to be trained nor do they unionise.

[snapdragon]

It is marginally better than being dead I guess (I assume anyway). That is about all I can say for the world of work so far and it will only get worse as I get older and my back starts to go and the winters in particular get harder. But I will carry on as my dad does stacking shelves, as my grandad did as an electrician as my great grandad did in the factory right back to the anonymous peasants who toiled in the dirt for Norman aristocrats because that is the nature of the world.

My Dad didn't want my brothers to become builders for the reasons you've given, but he liked his job despite all that. His back didn't go, but his hands suffered in the winter.
He earnt a lot of money, sometimes, but spent it on himself.
What he liked was not having to work if he didn't feel like it. That might be why his back didn't go.

Some of you have odd ideas about programmers.

Neither of my two daughters are in any way autistic and are paid pretty well megabucks, even for London. They enjoy the work most of the time and though the clients can be annoying, they
are nothing like as annoying as the customers were when they stacked shelves as students.

They loathed doing that, as I did.

My middle daughter is pissed off with fee earning and is training to be an electrician. She was inspired by next door neighbour, who is a plumber.

Honestly, some of you need to move a bit with the times.

[Rancid]

Driving the tubes in London can easily be automated. Even if you did automate it, you would still need someone in the drivers seat. Mainly as someone that can provide assistance during emergencies.

[Hong Wu]

We've reached this point where it has to be someone's fault that women don't want to do certain jobs that men want to do but somehow it never happens vice versa, so no one's like "more men should be elementary school teachers" etc.

Imagine if they went after women for not wanting to do certain jobs instead of going after the men who do those things.