The Pentagon’s U.F.O. Program - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14873907
Oumuamua is the first known object to enter our solar system from elsewhere in the universe.


That we know of..

It’s not the sexy Hollywood type scenario but it’s probably how it works, mircrobes in asteroids

If we tried communicating with these entities and they replied, wouldn’t there be a lag in response time? Also, what’s to guarantee the response would come back through the same channels they were sent?
#14873909
ness31 wrote:That we know of..

It’s not the sexy Hollywood type scenario but it’s probably how it works, mircrobes in asteroids

If we tried communicating with these entities and they replied, wouldn’t there be a lag in response time? Also, what’s to guarantee the response would come back through the same channels they were sent?



Well....that’s what they say in that article. The assumption they make is that a spaceship would be metallic. Actually carbonis a better material as, in spaceships, mass is everything. You want low mass/high strength.

https://www.materialstoday.com/carbon-fiber/news/carbon-nanotubes-in-space/

So carbon nano tubes for example. After 100’s of millions of years drifting, we would get radiation degraded carbon surface (ie: reddish spectrum as detected). So maybe it isn’t a weird asteroid.

Anyway, we will likely never know as it is now leaving our system faster than the Voyagers. We have nothing that could catch it. Well, not without an enormous amount of fuel, anyway.
#14874001
ness31 wrote:The UFO encounters aren’t necessarily always of the third kind. They might just be crafts from other countries who pose national security threats.


I very much doubt that. The capabilities are too advanced.

I’d be truly curious to know how extraterrestrial visotors really do get around. Do they even need space craft


Someone in te paracast forum says gravitational field propulsion.
#14874048
Ter wrote:I am not sure if any of this will be proven to be true but I am intrigued that so many people who claimed to be abducted by aliens had to undergo rectal examinations.
If aliens (or certain species of aliens) can physically interact with us, perhaps they're after genetic material. Some researchers believe that the 'grey' alien phenomena could be robotoids or synthetic clones, operating under the guide of a larger hive-mind. After-all, you gotta ask yourself, why would hyper-intelligent space-faring creatures send originals? We send artificial space probes, maybe they send robotoids. Earth is a living gene bank.

@Sivad True, some researchers claim that the Govs of the world want a 'fake space threat' to justify space defense/exploration. For example- The U.N. Reagan speech. And you know, again, you gotta ask yourself... Why would interstellar entities be interested in going to war with missile monkeys? However, we're developing directed energy weapons (DEWs). I think certain geo-engineering projects could tie into an upper atmosphere plasma shield project, like a more advanced strategic defense initiative or 'star wars missile defense project.' Where the military can use electromagnetic pulsation (HAARP technology) to weaponize an artificially energized ionosphere.

foxdemon wrote:Anyway, we will likely never know as it is now leaving our system faster than the Voyagers. We have nothing that could catch it. Well, not without an enormous amount of fuel, anyway.
True, and we should consider one fact- In the past, we didn't have the tools to observe this kind of phenomena.
#14874200
RhetoricThug wrote:If aliens (or certain species of aliens) can physically interact with us, perhaps they're after genetic material. Some researchers believe that the 'grey' alien phenomena could be robotoids or synthetic clones, operating under the guide of a larger hive-mind. After-all, you gotta ask yourself, why would hyper-intelligent space-faring creatures send originals? We send artificial space probes, maybe they send robotoids. Earth is a living gene bank.


Well, one of the foremost proponents of the gene harvesting notion, Jacobs, thinks ETs want to takeover our planet for themselves. Artificial beings may do a lot of the work, but ET presumably will live here.

True, some researchers claim that the Govs of the world want a 'fake space threat' to justify space defense/exploration.


The official policy is that ET isn't here so I doubt such claims.
#14874230
starman2003 wrote:Well, one of the foremost proponents of the gene harvesting notion, Jacobs, thinks ETs want to takeover our planet for themselves. Artificial beings may do a lot of the work, but ET presumably will live here.
However, 'they' could be here right now, in the oceans, in human form... Crazy, right :eek: One mustn't go crazy thinking such things, but we should keep an open mind.



The official policy is that ET isn't here so I doubt such claims.
There would have to be a 'drum roll' or build up, followed by an indoctrination or exposure event. Just like the cold war and the war on terrorism, a dialectical conflict must unfold 'naturally.' If you take a look at the 'break-away civilization' theory and America's defense budget (more than the next three countries combined), you might get a speculative narrative that suggests that a highly secretive cryptocracy could be funding a born classified space program. The official ET policy could change instantly, but how can we know for certain that the ETs are indeed other-worldly (consider our robotics and gene technology)?

Furthermore, why do you think circuitry, microchips, computers took off after WWII? Perhaps the cryptocracy reverse engineered alien tech and proceeded to incrementally leak technologically advanced systems as a form of public control/policy. The internet, computers, and smartphones, serve as soft-power applications, re-wiring foreign nations... For the gradual implementation of a full-spectrum or global communications/real-time awareness system. Side-note, why do various tech company CEOs have a top secret security clearance (beyond being an integral part of the military-information complex)?
#14874333
How about this scenario - We, (as in all of earths human inhabitants right now) are the product/project of space faring ETs? What if Earth was one big Noah’s Ark for aliens? :)
#14874366
RhetoricThug wrote:However, 'they' could be here right now, in the oceans, in human form... Crazy, right :eek: One mustn't go crazy thinking such things, but we should keep an open mind.


Strange that oceanic creatures are seen in flying craft that go up. ;)

Furthermore, why do you think circuitry, microchips, computers took off after WWII?


There were plenty of precursor technologies, like the code breaking machines of WWII.

Perhaps the cryptocracy reverse engineered alien tech and proceeded to incrementally leak technologically advanced systems as a form of public control/policy. The internet, computers, and smartphones, serve as soft-power applications, re-wiring foreign nations...



Oh yeah Corso....I don't buy that, and nor do the brightest people I've seen on certain forums. UFOs are still way beyond our capability. You'd think that if they could reverse engineer alien gear beginning in 1947, we wouldn't still rely on reaction mass.


Side-note, why do various tech company CEOs have a top secret security clearance (beyond being an integral part of the military-information complex)?


They develop classified stuff.
#14874593
starman2003 wrote:There were plenty of precursor technologies, like the code breaking machines of WWII.
Sure, if you look at the history, information processors (calculators/computers) follow a logical innovation/diffusion curve (despite the near 'priest-hood' status early computer scientists held). However, transistors and integrated circuitry revolutionized the electronic digital (and analog) computer era. Crystal/silicon microprocessors (instead of vacuum tubes & electromagnetic switches) miniaturize data processing (and amplify programming languages). I agree with your general point, but I'll entertain the idea that some kind of 'reverse engineered' incident provided scientists or solid-state physicists in particular, technological 'inference.' Day after Roswell, perhaps.

Oh yeah Corso....I don't buy that, and nor do the brightest people I've seen on certain forums. UFOs are still way beyond our capability.
'brightest people,' You know, we have ciphers made by humans that go unsolved. Unsolved math problems. Natural mysteries. Unexplored knowledge. UFOs remain beyond our capability, sure, but perhaps we're capable of reverse-engineering the 'bits and pieces' that make sense to us right now.
You'd think that if they could reverse engineer alien gear beginning in 1947, we wouldn't still rely on reaction mass.
Perhaps it's not an all-or-nothing incident. Furthermore, if you could classify/patent advanced technologies, wouldn't you make a little money on the side by drip-feeding the consumer market? After-all, it's called the military-information (formerly industrial) complex... The consumer-electronics market got most of its tech from military R&D.

They develop classified stuff.
True, but do they develop it :eek: ? Empire building is a serious game. Humans are intelligent creatures, but the 19-20th century caused an innovation 'quickening.' Who unlocked Pandora's box? Or is it another great technological transition, like stone to bronze (hint hint- we're going to become telepathic)? Lastly, beyond the surface of what we can know... Does it truly matter if aliens are here on Earth? Would they grant us 'enlightenment?' It's not like they'd be able to cure our existential angst or flawed cosmology. :lol:

Side-note: Aliens could be time travelers, and we could be aliens.
Side-note 2: It could be a psychological operation.
Side-note 3: :smokin:
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 27 Dec 2017 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
#14874601
RhetoricThug wrote:(hint hint- we're going to become telepathic)? Lastly, beyond the surface of what we can know... Does it truly matter if aliens are here on Earth? Would they grant us 'enlightenment?' It's not like they'd be able to cure our existential angst or flawed cosmology. :lol:


I see the telepathy thing happening too, but it’s just going to be weaponised :hmm: or used in niche circles. Don’t you think it’s the opposite of democratic?
Might not humanity suffer if we used our words just for show, but our intent was hidden?
Is that even a reason to not recognise its existence?..
#14874666
RhetoricThug wrote:Unsolved math problems.


Goldbach's conjecture? Reisman's....? I heard a Paul Bruckman, who passed away in 2013, had proved them.

Humans are intelligent creatures, but the 19-20th century caused an innovation 'quickening.' Who unlocked Pandora's box? Or is it another great technological transition, like stone to bronze


They say progress is logarithmic, with a "takeoff" point.

Side-note: Aliens could be time travelers, and we could be aliens.
Side-note 2: It could be a psychological operation.


Physical evidence rules out a purely psychological explanation. As for time travelers, it's been pointed out that the ETH is so much better than proposed alternatives. We don't know if time travel is possible but there are obviously legions of extrasolar planets.
#14874754
ness31 wrote:I see the telepathy thing happening too, but it’s just going to be weaponised :hmm: or used in niche circles.
Yes, advances in bioelectromagnetics should help us unlock localized nuerochemical phenomena and the 'modulations' of neurotransmitters. Mind control is an old science, we're always trying to weaponize 'thought' and therefore modify behavior. We've been experimenting with exposure to magnetic fields for some time now, studying physiological and epidemiological effects.

Example: Chronic exposure of primates to 60-Hz electric and magnetic fields: II. Neurochemical effects.

Control animals were exposed to sham E and B fields for the entire 105-d interval. At the end of each 21-d period cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) was obtained by lumbar puncture and analyzed for concentrations of homovanillic acid (HVA) and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA), metabolites of dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitters, respectively, by high-performance liquid chromatography with electrochemical detection (HPLC-ECD). Results are based on an examination of six experimental and four control animals.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2473755


Electromagnetic stimulation can impact biological organisms, and that is why we should thoroughly investigate the health risks associated with stuff like '5G wireless communications,' before we soak our cities in a sea of 5G-6G-7G-8G, etc.

"Activate it" (3:00 mark)


Don’t you think it’s the opposite of democratic?
Maybe, but democracy is a myth. Instead of 'selecting' we 'elect' leaders. Big difference. If powerful agencies can influence the democratic/selection process, and help shape candidacy, do we have a democracy? If telepathy does take over communication, we mustn't let the FCC set bandwidth restrictions :lol: . Net-neutrality allows the rich and poor to share the same information platform... Telepathic infrastructure must be 'free flowing.' With a free-flowing telepathic communications system in place, true democracy (as an idea) could flourish, because LIES would cease to control political issues. Of course, I'm sure transparency will have technological loop-holes. :hmm:

Might not humanity suffer if we used our words just for show, but our intent was hidden?
Is that not the art of politics?

Beren wrote:Which would explain our alienation from the planet.
Okay, but isn't our 'alienation' a psycho-social thing?

starman2003 wrote:Goldbach's conjecture? Reisman's....? I heard a Paul Bruckman, who passed away in 2013, had proved them.
Sure, but what about cipher-codes.



They say progress is logarithmic, with a "takeoff" point.
That takeoff point would constitute exponential growth. Quickening = exponential growth.



Physical evidence rules out a purely psychological explanation. As for time travelers, it's been pointed out that the ETH is so much better than proposed alternatives. We don't know if time travel is possible but there are obviously legions of extrasolar planets.
Playing devil's advocate here- Do we have physical evidence, what if they fabricate physical evidence?
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 27 Dec 2017 17:53, edited 2 times in total.
#14874758
RhetoricThug wrote:Okay, but isn't our 'alienation' a psycho-social thing?

Alienation from each other and ourselves is. There must be a connection between the two kinds of alienation though, as they're both due to being and getting more and more civilised, which seems alien to this planet.
#14874767
Time travel is conceivable but it is by no means clear if it is physically possible for us.

Examples of FTL phenomena are the speed objects fall within a black hole event horizon, which is faster than light or it wouldn’t be a black hole. But time/space is inverted so you only travel in one direction but can move around in time. Other examples include various particles. Photons are timeless. Antimatter seems to have the reverse time direction. Etc.

If you can travel faster than light, you can time travel. Go near light speed and the bulk of reference frames slow down relative to your reference frame and so you are going forward in time. Exceed light speed and you are reaching world lines ahead of the point you started from, so you can return to your origin before you left. Thus you have gone backward in time.

Of course it takes enormous power to travel near to light speed and infinite power to exceed it. At least with classical technology. Also, I am not sure what would happen to the matter you are composed of if you exceed light speed. In time/space moving unidirectional in time is a basic property for ‘stuff’. Those drive concepts that isolate a section of time/space might be able to do it (eg: Alcubierre drive). Interestingly, it has been pointed out the later creates a bubble of time/space in which scale is isolated too. So you can get your Tardis if only you can figure out if negative energy density is possible and how to manipulate it.
#14874979
If telepathy does take over communication, we mustn't let the FCC set bandwidth restrictions :lol: . Net-neutrality allows the rich and poor to share the same information platform... Telepathic infrastructure must be 'free flowing.' With a free-flowing telepathic communications system in place, true democracy (as an idea) could flourish, because LIES would cease to control political issues. Of course, I'm sure transparency will have technological loop-holes. :hmm:


Are humans innately telepathic? If we are, then any tampering with our ability to freely communicate would be an assault.

If on the other hand our telepathy is not of organic origin, then those who implemented the means for this ability will want some kind of override capacity.
That would be an assault in more ways then one, unless you can give me a good reason for it’s justification.
#14874989
RhetoricThug wrote:Maybe, but democracy is a myth. Instead of 'selecting' we 'elect' leaders. Big difference.


It's a big difference alright. Elections imply the process conforms to the desires of the masses--which usually isn't good, IMO.

If powerful agencies can influence the democratic/selection process, and help shape candidacy, do we have a democracy?


The key "powerful agencies"--lobbies working on behalf of the elderly etc--tend to be well supported by voters.

Playing devil's advocate here- Do we have physical evidence, what if they fabricate physical evidence?


There's plenty of physical evidence pertaining to UFOs and there's no way the government could've fabricated it.
#14875034
Beren wrote:Alienation from each other and ourselves is. There must be a connection between the two kinds of alienation though, as they're both due to being and getting more and more civilised, which seems alien to this planet.
Yes, I've heard such things before. I'll ask you this- do you think civilization, as a form of planetary 'pressure,' should be described as innately alien, or could it be the way we go about our business? Sustainable (whatever that word means to you, let's say renewable) civilization (like sustainable agriculture) seems like a possibility, but we're inept, psychologically and socially. Marxists say similar things, about civilized alienation. Culture as a psycho-social program can be an active form of denial, programming alienation. I think civilization isn't THE problem, it's the way we go about our business.

foxdemon wrote:Time travel is conceivable but it is by no means clear if it is physically possible for us.

Examples of FTL phenomena are the speed objects fall within a black hole event horizon, which is faster than light or it wouldn’t be a black hole. But time/space is inverted so you only travel in one direction but can move around in time. Other examples include various particles. Photons are timeless. Antimatter seems to have the reverse time direction. Etc.
What about consciousness itself? Gravity is a constant, consciousness is a constant. Do dreams operate like black holes? Thoughts are timeless. Dreams produce nonlinear time events.

ness31 wrote:If on the other hand our telepathy is not of organic origin, then those who implemented the means for this ability will want some kind of override capacity.
That's just it, if biology is technology, what is organic? Furthermore, human language must utilize technological tools, like symbols, to encode and decode thought. If thoughts happen organically, can we treat the extensions of thought as organic forces? The letters I'm using to communicate my thoughts seem to be rudimentary telepathic tools. Of course, is this the story of civilization itself, mind over matter? Or is the dialectic fading as we evolve? The mind shall become one with matter, matter one with mind? Thoughts adhere to each other and the extracellular matrix through perception and sensation.

starman2003 wrote:There's plenty of physical evidence pertaining to UFOs and there's no way the government could've fabricated it.
I agree, but what does it all mean? Are we not ready for 'full-frontal' disclosure? Why so secretive?
#14875075
RhetoricThug wrote:Yes, I've heard such things before. I'll ask you this- do you think civilization, as a form of planetary 'pressure,' should be described as innately alien, or could it be the way we go about our business? Sustainable (whatever that word means to you, let's say renewable) civilization (like sustainable agriculture) seems like a possibility, but we're inept, psychologically and socially. Marxists say similar things, about civilized alienation. Culture as a psycho-social program can be an active form of denial, programming alienation. I think civilization isn't THE problem, it's the way we go about our business.

Civilisation was sustainable most of the time, but it doesn't mean it's not been alien all along, it's become unsustainable exactly because it's always been innately alien to this planet. Maybe we can make it sustainable and adapt to Earth again, otherwise we face extinction or a huge cataclysm at least. I don't think this planet produced us on its own, we should have gone extinct in the Savannah as polar bears seem to go extinct in the Arctic now, although they show such abilities to survive as we've never thought they had. No other ape survived, and no ape lives there today, so how did we? :?:

Also, in my opinion everyone on this planet "knows" we're aliens, except ourselves.
#14875087
Also, in my opinion everyone on this planet "knows" we're aliens, except ourselves.


Which is a bit unfair for us I think. :|

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