Radical Leftist Anti-War Protesters Attack Peaceful Pro-American Anti-War Protesters - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15059050


Left wing Zionists violated the personal space of peaceful protesters, ripped signs from their hands and aggressively shouted profanity and anti-white slurs at them while whining about persecution.

What Do You Do When Neo-Nazis Crash Your Anti-War Rally?

They showed up to anti-war protests in Pittsburgh and Atlanta on Saturday waving signs and distributing flyers. They live-streamed from a Monday night anti-war demonstration in Austin.

But they weren’t associated with the left-wing crowd who organized pushback on the U.S. assassination of top Iranian general Qassem Soleimani last week. They were far-right activists, some of them affiliated with known extremist groups.

In the days after Soleimani’s assassination, leftist-organized rallies drew hundreds of attendees each—fewer than the tens of thousands who showed up to some of the most visible anti-war protests against the Iraq War, but sizeable pockets of discontent nonetheless. At the same time, some right-wing figures have also made their presence felt in the emerging anti-war scene. Some are hecklers, just looking to crash a rival protest. But others, including overt neo-Nazi groups and Republican pundits like Tucker Carlson, who has voiced opposition to war on Fox News, represent an anti-interventionist wing of an otherwise hawkish conservative movement.

The apparent ideological overlap has some lefties wondering what, if anything, they should do about the far-right figures at their rallies in the era of Unite the Right and "very fine people on both sides."

The first of the faceoffs appears to have come Saturday, when five far-right demonstrators reportedly showed up at an anti-war protest in Pittsburgh’s Schenley Plaza. Although they chanted along with anti-war slogans, the men carried anti-Semitic signs blaming Jews for wars. Leftist demonstrators drove the group away with a “Nazis out” chant.



#15060065
This aggressive response to these contrary demonstrators , in my view , is counterproductive . It only makes the assailants come across as being impulsive , and repressive . Instead what is needed is to counteract any false consciousness with civil discourse . And who knows , perhaps they'll both come to see one another in a new light , and possibly even join forces . At the very least they'd get beyond the stereotyped caricatures they have made of each other . In my analysis of both Communism , and National Socialism , in general , I am not referring specifically to Hitler's Third Reich , or Stalin's Soviet Union , more particularly , I have found that the criticism which both respective sides have had for the other has been based upon misunderstood strawman arguments , for the most part . I think that reading the materials on such sites as this would be a good starting point to greater awareness of each other's worldview , which might not be as worlds apart as each side might have been thinking . https://arplan.org And of course this forum has also served to create a platform for constructive dialogue across the political landscape .
#15060071
@Deutschmania the only real discourse to be had between between the fash and egalitarians is a good old fashioned street battle. In what kind of goofy world do they have "civil discourse" and possibly even "join forces"? In this sort of scenario the opposite pillars of modern political thought will have ceased to exist. Jesus Christ might as well descend through the clouds.
#15060250
Donna wrote:@Deutschmania the only real discourse to be had between between the fash and egalitarians is a good old fashioned street battle. In what kind of goofy world do they have "civil discourse" and possibly even "join forces"? In this sort of scenario the opposite pillars of modern political thought will have ceased to exist. Jesus Christ might as well descend through the clouds.

My point was that we should respond in like manner to each situation . Like , if the fascists want to exchange blows , then we should counter attack . But if they are content to exchange words , then we should respond in kind . And yeah , obviously their mindset would have to be drastically reformed before a rapprochement could be effected . But while I might be a bit naive , I could conceive of what had been yellow socialism coming together with red socialism , in a green socialism . And historically speaking , this certainly would not be unprecedented . https://national-revolutionary.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-bvg-strike-co-operation-between.html , https://www.exberliner.com/features/zeitgeist/eighty-years-ago%3A-when-the-bvg-went-on-strike/ Image
#15061189
maz wrote:Left wing Zionists violated the personal space of peaceful protesters, ripped signs from their hands and aggressively shouted profanity and anti-white slurs at them while whining about persecution.


So, some people organise an anti-war protest.

Some neo-Nazis show up and exploit this opportunity to distribute anti-Semitic propaganda.

The original protestors then tell the bigots they are not welcome.

And somehow, the people criticising the racists are the bad guys?
#15061192
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, some people organise an anti-war protest.

Some neo-Nazis show up and exploit this opportunity to distribute anti-Semitic propaganda.

The original protestors then tell the bigots they are not welcome.

And somehow, the people criticising the racists are the bad guys?


''Neo-nazi'' is basically a hollywood creation. People with an uncomfortable and non-mainstream anti-war narrative were not welcome there. The mainstream left and mainstream right doesn't want you if you walk outside of their framework. The mainstream left's anti-war message is to basically fly a rainbow flag, compare Dubya or Trump to a monkey, and not mention Zionism in an actual meaningful way.
#15061195
Code Rood wrote:''Neo-nazi'' is basically a hollywood creation. People with an uncomfortable and non-mainstream anti-war narrative were not welcome there. The mainstream left and mainstream right doesn't want you if you walk outside of their framework.


I think people who openly make anti-Jewish claims just like the Nazis did, and also self identify as neo-Nazis, can be called neo-Nazis.

If you want to use another word to describe right wing white nationalists who denounce Jews, feel free.

Now, other than my choice of wording, do you have any criticisms about my take on the situation?
#15061206
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, some people organise an anti-war protest.

Some neo-Nazis show up and exploit this opportunity to distribute anti-Semitic propaganda.

The original protestors then tell the bigots they are not welcome.

And somehow, the people criticising the racists are the bad guys?


Yes, the people who approached the "racists" who were standing there doing nothing, tore the flyers from their hands and yelled obscenities at them are indeed the bad guys.

The people yelling at others in an aggressive manner do not have the moral authority and cannot tell other people with opposing views that they are not allowed to stand on the streets and protests another stupid war.
#15061212
maz wrote:Yes, the people who approached the "racists" who were standing there doing nothing, tore the flyers from their hands and yelled obscenities at them are indeed the bad guys.


Why are you using scare quotes? That implies that the neo-Nazis were not making racist claims. Is that the case?

And you repeat the implied claim when you write that they were "doing nothing".

As for yelling obscenities, that is a moral argument: it is bad to say bad words. If we accept this premise, then you must also logically agree that making anti-Semitic claims is also bad, because it is also bad words.

Anti-Semitic claims differ from mere rudeness in one significant way: the former have been used to justify genocide, while the latter have not.

The people yelling at others in an aggressive manner do not have the moral authority and cannot tell other people with opposing views that they are not allowed to stand on the streets and protests another stupid war.


Since the people who are being targeted by these progressives who "do not have the moral authority" are openly identifying with genocidal authoritarians, it is difficult to argue that the neo-Nazis have any moral authority.
#15061215
Pants-of-dog wrote:Why are you using scare quotes? That implies that the neo-Nazis were not making racist claims. Is that the case?


Yes, I do not believe that they were making racist claims, but even if they were I am not sure how much I would care.

Besides, writing "deport Kushner" on a piece of paper is actually kinda funny don't you think?

Pants-of-dog wrote:As for yelling obscenities, that is a moral argument: it is bad to say bad words. If we accept this premise, then you must also logically agree that making anti-Semitic claims is also bad, because it is also bad words.


You appear to be supporting the bullying and political harassment of people based on their ethnicity.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Since the people who are being targeted by these progressives who "do not have the moral authority" are openly identifying with genocidal authoritarians, it is difficult to argue that the neo-Nazis have any moral authority.


No one is identifying with genocidal authoritarians. What are you even talking about?
#15061227
maz wrote:Yes, I do not believe that they were making racist claims,


Provide evidence for this claim.

You appear to be supporting the bullying and political harassment of people based on their ethnicity.


I have no idea why you are ignoring the argument and instead are making false accusations.

Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?

No one is identifying with genocidal authoritarians.


... except the neo-Nazis.
#15061230
Pants-of-dog wrote:Provide evidence for this claim.


You are asking me to prove negative.

Pants-of-dog wrote:I have no idea why you are ignoring the argument and instead are making false accusations.


You are 100% in the defense of violent individuals accosting people standing in the streets who minding their own business.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?


Provide evidence of bigotry from the video. Perhaps a timestamp.

I don't believe that writing "deport Kushner" on a sign is bigotry against Jews. In fact, I think it's quite funny, and even more funny that there are some people who would react so violently over words written on a sign. Why are you against patriotic Americans who want to write things on a piece of paper?

Pants-of-dog wrote:... except the neo-Nazis.


Provide evidence for this claim that these patriotic anti-war protesters are identifying with genocidal authoritarians.
#15061232
maz wrote:You are asking me to prove negative.


Are you one of those people who incorrectly think that you can not prove a negative?

Are you also unaware of the difference between evidence and proof?

So provide evidence for this claim. The fact that it is a negative claim is no reason for you to get away with not supporting it.

You are 100% in the defense of violent individuals accosting people standing in the streets who minding their own business.


I have no idea why you are ignoring the argument and instead are making false accusations.

Provide evidence of bigotry from the video. Perhaps a timestamp.

I don't believe that writing "deport Kushner" on a sign is bigotry against Jews.


Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?

If you avoid the question again, I will assume that you think anti-Jewish bigotry is fine.

Provide evidence for this claim that these patriotic anti-war protesters are identifying with genocidal authoritarians.


The article in the OP provides evidence.
#15061295
Pants-of-dog wrote:Are you one of those people who incorrectly think that you can not prove a negative?


Isn't the burden of proof on you to show evidence of the bigotry that you want me to address?

Pants-of-dog wrote:I have no idea why you are ignoring the argument and instead are making false accusations.


Because you have a well documented history of defending and even outright supporting the kinds of violent lunatics in this video and defending them when they physically attack people with views that you disagree with.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?


I may be able to address this question when you show in the video where there is proof of bigotry against Jews.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If you avoid the question again, I will assume that you think anti-Jewish bigotry is fine.


This is really not relevant to the issue. Show the proof of bigotry.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The article in the OP provides evidence.


Post quotes from the article where it shows anti-war protesters identifying with genocidal authoritarians.
#15061316
@maz wrote:Because you have a well documented history of defending and even outright supporting the kinds of violent lunatics in this video and defending them when they physically attack people with views that you disagree with.


Just because he challenges the chorus of conservative pearl clutching over Antifa doesn't necessarily mean he supports them. You have been tricked by PoD's cunning, which is to make your opponent believe you have taken a position on something when in reality you did not.
#15061325
maz wrote:We've got pages and pages of Pants-of Dog defending radical leftist terrorist threats and violence.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=174294&hilit=bike+lock&start=120#p15028888

I'll be on hand if though if he wants to ever point out the bigotry in the video in the op


Doesn't matter. He can make excuses for Antifa all day long, this doesn't make him an Antifa supporter. You were tricked.
#15061387
maz wrote:Isn't the burden of proof on you to show evidence of the bigotry that you want me to address?


No. You made the original claim. You have the burden of proof.

...irrelevant ad h9minems....


I may be able to address this question when you show in the video where there is proof of bigotry against Jews.


We do not need video for a hypothetical question.

Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?

This is really not relevant to the issue. Show the proof of bigotry.


Do you or do you not agree that bigotry against Jews is immoral? Yes or no?

Post quotes from the article where it shows anti-war protesters identifying with genocidal authoritarians.


You already did.

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