Media company assholes and The BBC are going nuts removing content left right and centre..... - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15099546
Well not that I count, but I’m certainly getting more pissed off with the overblown reaction. It also makes me feel unsafe, because either retards are running the show or its some crazy left wing authoritarian push. Is that the cultural revolution you are referring to? Because that’s been happening for quite some time.
#15099560
ness31 wrote:Well not that I count, but I’m certainly getting more pissed off with the overblown reaction. It also makes me feel unsafe, because either retards are running the show or its some crazy left wing authoritarian push. Is that the cultural revolution you are referring to? Because that’s been happening for quite some time.

I agree. To refer to them as crazy, retards, and assholes is a nice way to put it.
#15099571
Donna wrote:So you don't have any evidence that this specific reaction is occurring, you're just predicting that it will. Understood.


Pretty much, we have to wait for the elections to have a clearer picture. But the longer this goes on, the more likely it becomes there will be a reaction against it. Even more so if shit hits the fan again with looting and the like.
#15099572
wat0n wrote:Pretty much, we have to wait for the elections to have a clearer picture. But the longer this goes on, the more likely it becomes there will be a reaction against it. Even more so if shit hits the fan again with looting and the like.


So if Trump is re-elected, we can see this as a reaction to it? While electing Biden would be a repudiation of Trump's attempt to manufacture a reaction? Is this what you're saying?
#15099579
Donna wrote:So if Trump is re-elected, we can see this as a reaction to it? While electing Biden would be a repudiation of Trump's attempt to manufacture a reaction? Is this what you're saying?


In some ways that's what it would be. The first time Trump was elected, it was already a mild reaction to this, along with the populist moment it was and an expression of the frustration of rural and small town America over its economic decline (indeed, although the American economy was strong overall, rural America has had a rough time and particularly so in 2015-2016 when it was in many ways facing a recession).

But now I think culture will be an even more prominent issue in the election, which is better for Trump than making it about his COVID-19 response or the trade war with China (China's measures were specifically directed at farmers and other Trump constituencies). So yes, if he were elected we would be seeing the Thermidorian Reaction on November.

But even if Trump doesn't win, this issue doesn't just end there. The Democrats' key constituencies seem on the way to be divided as this cultural revolution goes on, the far left wing of the party that voted for Bernie - along with those who are farther to the left of him and the Party itself - may stand behind it but the moderate wing does not, even if it may share some key sentiments such as believing the cops are too aggressive or even biased against African Americans, I doubt they agree with proposals like defunding the cops (see the survey evidence above) and also don't appreciate the behavior by some protesters such as rioting, shouting elected officials and pretty much all dissent down or the looting (particularly if they have been directly affected by it) - along with their ever increasing fanaticism.

So I wouldn't interpret a Biden win as a support for it either, but as you said a repudiation of Trump and not just of his behavior now but throughout his Presidency (the Russian and Ukrainian investigations, his constant attempts to divide Americans by appealing to identity politics in his own way, his general inconsistency, his COVID-19 response, not getting along with traditional allies in Western Europe, etc).

If Biden wins, you may also see something that's actually revolutionary in the sense of fulfilling the cycle. Taking the schematic proposed by Crane Brinton in The Anatomy of Revolution, often, the very first government that replaces the Ancien Regime is a moderate one, which in turn gets overthrown by a hardline revolutionary one, and then the Thermidorian Reaction happens. The Reaction is either carried out by the hardline revolutionary government itself as it decides to act in a more practical manner to be able to consolidate its authority or the said government gets overthrown. An example of the former is essentially what the Bolsheviks did with the Purges and was deepened by Stalin and the Great Purge - both Lenin and specially Stalin eventually became concerned about the actual process governing than about developing the theoretical and ideological aspects of bolshevism, and as such they simultaneously engaged in the purging of the opposition, the purging of the ideologues within their ranks, the monitoring of the population and also about raising the overall living standards of the population by means of forced industrialization to increase economic output as much as they could - and after the Great Purge there was a gradual yet clear repudiation of some aspects of Marxism such as its opposition to nationalism, one beyond the idea of internationalizing the Revolution since that became a non-starter early on and was likely interpreted as evidence of the fragility of the newly established Bolshevik regime, encouraging the change that amounted to the Reaction. Examples of the latter is what happened to the revolutionary regime headed by Robespierre in the original Thermidorian Reaction, what happened to the French Revolution of 1848 with the repression of the June Days Uprising and then the election of Napoleon III a few months later, and also what happened (but in a different, more peaceful manner) with the end of the Confederation Period of the US and the replacement of the Articles of Confederation by the Constitution.

Biden being elected would be the moderates getting to power, but he won't be overthrown, I doubt so, if elected I think the division within the Democrats' key constituencies will become more apparent and, while at the beginning he may be super conciliatory and open to demands the far left wing of the Party in an attempt to keep it united, at some point it will make a demand he and the moderate wing he represents can't consent to. Maybe it will be a demand to federalize policing in the US or otherwise get the Federal Government way more involved in it than it is now. Maybe it will be a demand for Medicare for All, along with the taxation necessary for it. Maybe it will be all of that and an attempt to turn him into Bernie Sanders. Either way, he and the moderates will not consent to the demands, and the Party will end up dividing itself - and this will in itself be a Thermidorian Reaction of sorts, particularly if they start to bring moderate Republicans into the fold (say pretty much all the never trumpers) and it translates in a heightened resolve by local Democratic elected officials to resist similar pressures at the local level as a result of a Party-level decision to do so.

It would be a very dysfunctional, and failed, administration since it would be unable to control Congress in any meaningful way, but such failure would result in a necessary realignment of the American political spectrum. Maybe it could go from a two party system to a three party system, with the GOP being Trumpist in nature, the Democrats being a centrist party and a super progressive party being formed. Or maybe the GOP would purge Trumpism out of the Party, since it remains to be seen up to what extent is Trump's control of the Party sustainable if he isn't the US President and how large is his constituency in this scenario, and maybe the American two party system survives but both parties emerge having changed in many ways (and perhaps the cultural issues become the largest difference between both, rather than economic or foreign policy).
#15099620
Tainari88 wrote:
I am against any programs being edited out or language changed, characters or anything at all that is about political correctness on TV. For me older television programs are like historical records that need to be preserved to see how the culture had changed with other areas. All in the Family in the USA was very controversial with its bigot character Archie Bunker. Imagine changing every line that bigot uttered? Lol. No show left. The show was the bigot and how people were in that era and in that neighborhood and mentality. It is art. You leave it the hell alone!

They need to examine why they have a need to edit out some program from 1975. Or some cop show?

What they need to do if they want to change the problems with racism? Is have long and fruitful examinations of their attitudes with other communities. Leave art alone. Leave music alone. Lyrics, poetry, and painting, and sculpture and literature and all of it alone. Let it stand.

If they want to get rid of stupid statues I am all for that. Hell, Denver Colorado had the airport named after a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan for a very long time. No one protested. He still has all kinds of shit named after the hood wearing man who would terrorize Black Coloradans. Yet people got to go and rewrite some comedy script? I don't get it.



I think probably just a simple *disclaimer* at the beginning of the movie / video / whatever, would be sufficient, just as there are for 'mature content' media items -- something like 'Warning: Historic racist cultural depictions are present, viewer discretion advised.'
#15099635
skinster wrote:Struggling to sympathise with the comfortable folks who cry about not being able to watch TV shows they probably didn't plan to watch again anyway, from a particular venue, as if they've been disappeared entirely. :hmm:


struggling to understand how you don't see the principal of it.

what does 'comfortable' mean? do you mean privileged?
#15099644
Do elaborate.


I’ll try my best.

What is the ideological ‘end game’ of cancel culture? What purpose does it serve?
How is it righteous? Will black people be less marginalized by taking Gone With the Wind off HBO or it just ‘virtue signaling’?

It was a fictional narrative depicting the South during the Civil War. By removing it we aren’t able to analyze how powerful stories can be used to manipulate history. It might be a shitty movie, but it is still an anthropological footprint from which we can learn :hmm:

Edit - and might I add, it’s a story. It’s a piece of art.

Crying over TV shows (that you can still access elsewhere if you really want to) suggests a level of comfort and privilege, yes.


I’m sorry I’m not poor or illiterate enough for you. We all re-live hurtful shit Skinny. Ive had a cracker of a day, and here I am on the internet trying to make sense of it with internet friends.

Cancel culture is no different to ISIS destroying the ancient city of Palmyra. It’s just a more insidious form of vandalism and looting, because it’s our intellectual property that’s being destroyed.
#15099649
Rugoz wrote:Silly. It's a comedy. It makes fun of bigoted people. Basil literally has brain damage in that episode. Besides, both Basil and Manuel are utterly incompetent while Polly and Sybil are not.

The specific problem in the episode seems to be The Major using the N word (I can't remember if we have a site policy on typing it out or not...). The BBC itself cut it in a 7:30pm broadcast in 2013: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... r-gowen-is . The Major is made fun of too, of course (from memory, Basil may gently rebuke or say something like "we don't say that anymore, Major"); but it is clear that a lot of people don't like hearing it, especially without warning in a comedy. If I were UKTV, I'd use a version with that exchange cut out. It's not vital for the overall episode.
#15099650
ness31 wrote:What is the ideological ‘end game’ of cancel culture? What purpose does it serve?
How is it righteous? Will black people be less marginalized by taking Gone With the Wind off HBO or it just ‘virtue signaling’?


Why are you acting like black people or me have anything to do with the BBC's removal of some TV shows?

That are still accessible btw, in case you really were planning on watching them again.

It was a fictional narrative depicting the South during the Civil War. By removing it we aren’t able to analyze how powerful stories can be used to manipulate history. It might be a shitty movie, but it is still an anthropological footprint from which we can learn :hmm:


I haven't seen the film and don't know the reason why it was removed.

I’m sorry I’m not poor or illiterate enough for you.


:lol:

Cancel culture is no different to ISIS destroying the ancient city of Palmyra. It’s just a more insidious form of vandalism and looting, because it’s our intellectual property that’s being destroyed.


Going to have strongly disagree with you about not being able to watch Gone With The Wind or whatever at one particular media site being similar to Western-sponsored Jihadi terrorism/destruction of a historically-rich city in Syria.
#15099654
First they came for the Palestinian activists on social media, and I spoke out but nobody cared

Then they came for the left alternative media sites and I spoke out some more even though I'm not a left wing media site but still hardly anyone cared

Then they came for the alt-right media sites which also got banned from social media giants and some of you started to make a fuss as if censorship of media and people was something new

Then individual activists and journalists on left and alt-right, comics, other media people continued to be taken off commonly used websites, losing exposure and their years-long-built followings and people finally started noticing how this might affect them

Then some removal of TV shows that included racism happened by a large media corporation and everyone else started to cry about it as if they'd had a limb stolen from them or they had been chocked to death

Then they came for me...and there was no one left to speak for me because I do it myself and I'm here to welcome you to my Ted Talk and on board for finally caring about censorship, but I think it's too late so here's a tissue and maybe next time care even if it doesn't affect you, because it eventually will

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