Palestinian Propaganda Thread - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14956624
JohnRawls wrote:I have literally tried for years to talk about this with @skinster. Talking with her about Israel is like hitting your head at a brick wall. But i still try sometimes although i do not know why anymore.


Stop talking shit. You promote zionist propaganda and I call it out for what it is and then you scuttle off, until the next time. I'm happy for debate whenever, please bring it. Especially on this topic, that I've spent about two decades reading upon.

She will not listen to reason. Israel is evil. Palesteine is good. Arabs do not do anything bad, it is just self-defence. Jews do everything bad, it is fascism.


I can listen to reason okay but when you try to put on par the colonizer with the colonized, you are regurgitating hasbara and I then call it out.

She doesn't care about good solutions and workable ones.


E.g.?

She doesn't care that BDS is basically useless and demands a one sided solution which Israel could never accept.


As I've pointed out, BDS is merely a tactic. A tactic that was used historically in a way that ended up being positive. The demands, the 3 demands of BDS align with international law, so what's your problem? :excited:

She doesn't care that both have claim to the land. (I guess one by law and another by birth right)


No, both do not have claims to the land, only the Palestinians do since they've been living on it for hundreds of years. Just because European Jews decided to colonize Palestine in the 1940s by absurdly telling us that "God gave it to us" while also claiming zionism is a secular ideology, doesn't justify the theft and dispossession of Palestinian land and homes and their ongoing genocide. Not to mention, orthodox Jews, you know, the religious ones, generally oppose Israel since it is a land that is man-made instead of given by god or whatever.

She doesn't aknowledge that Israel has any security concerns and worries.


Miss me with your tears for racist colonizers. :D

Only Palesteine should exist and people of Israel should just go back to Europe/etc.


Actually, I'd be okay with Palestine staying as it is if Israelis allowed for equality and human rights for the natives as well as themselves, instead of continuing with the ongoing genocide while grabbing more and more land and homes of Palestinians and killing their children very regularly.

It is ultimately a very problematic conflict that polarizes people. She has chosen a side. She is not impartial. She is not interested in a compromise or a just solution.


Yes, it polarizes those who support freedom and human rights and those who love racist colonizers. Yes, I have chosen a side - the one that isn't racist colonizers - and when the fuck have I ever pretended to be impartial? As if that's an actual thing. :lol:

This article is written for people like you who simply do not get it, while pretending they do.
Imposing ‘Balance’ Requires Distortion of Palestine/Israel Struggle
Since the Palestinians’ Great Return March began on March 30, Israel has killed 217 Palestinians in Gaza, 163 of whom were participating in the demonstrations. Among the dead are 33 children, three paramedics and four people with disabilities; Israel has injured a further 11,155 Palestinians, many of whom will be maimed for life.

The media’s attempt to present a “balanced” version of these events is a fundamentally flawed approach, because it erases myriad, consequential differences: between colonizer and colonized; between oppressing people and people resisting oppression; between, on the one hand, the regional military superpower backed by the global hegemon and, on the other, unarmed and lightly armed protestors.

These inequities are buried when Palestine/Israel is presented as though it were a civil war, or a “he said, she said” story where the reality of what’s happening—ethnic cleansing, apartheid and resistance to these—is impossible to unravel. Such “both sides” coverage wrongly suggests to readers that this is a mere “conflict” between parties on equal footing and with equally valid claims of injury against each other. It is the formal expression of what I show in my book, The Wrong Story: Palestine, Israel and the Media, is the false narrative that Israelis and Palestinians have harmed each other to a roughly comparable degree, and share proportionate responsibility for the absence of peace.

On a day when Israel killed seven Palestinian demonstrators, two of whom were children, a Reuters report (9/28/18) devoted 62 words to the Palestinian account of the violence and 57 to Israel’s. One 43-word paragraph is spent presenting the issues animating Palestinian protest as statements of fact:

About 200 Palestinians have been killed since the Gaza protests began on March 30 to demand the right of return to lands that Palestinian families fled or were driven from on Israel’s founding in 1948, and the easing of an Israeli/Egyptian economic blockade.

One 35-word paragraph presents the Israeli perspective as statements of fact:

A Gaza sniper killed an Israeli soldier in an earlier protest, and Palestinians have used kites and helium balloons to fly incendiary devices over the border fence, destroying tracts of forest and farmland in Israel.

Presenting Palestine/Israel in such an “even-handed” manner necessarily involves elisions. The latter passage lists the weapons Palestinians have used during the protest (a sniper, “kites and helium balloons”) but there is scant mention of the weapons Israel is using—drones, helicopters, jets, a naval blockade—to try to quell the protests, maintain apartheid, and prevent Palestinian refugees from returning to their lands. Had these been inventoried, it would be obvious that there is nothing balanced about the deadliness of the weaponry available to the parties involved in this struggle.

Similarly, readers are told that Palestinians have “destroy[ed] tracts of forest and farmland in Israel,” but no details about the consequences of the blockade of Gaza are noted. These include the theft of Palestinian farmland, which is one part of Israel’s deliberate destruction of Gaza’s economy, as well as Israel’s obstruction of Palestinians’ access to clean water, electricity and medical care. Such specifics would belie the symmetry these articles attempt to construct.

CNN (9/28/18) spent three paragraphs on the Palestinians’ version of events and three on Israel’s. This structure encodes the message that Palestine-Israel is a story of two parties on a level playing field. Yet one party has international law on its side—and, frankly, any minimally coherent conception of justice—and the other doesn’t: Israel’s blockade of Gaza is illegal; the Palestinian refugees have a legal right to return to their homes, and a legal right to resist occupation, including by force.

When Israel killed three Palestinian demonstrators, including a thirteen-year-old, the Associated Press (10/6/18) spent 68 words describing what Palestinians say happened. These are set against 52 words given to Israel’s side of the story. Readers are told that

responding to calls by Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza, thousands of Palestinians thronged five areas along the fence, burning tires, throwing rocks.

And also that

the Israeli military said about 20,000 protesters participated. They threw explosive devices and grenades toward the troops which used tear gas and live fire to, it added.

Allotting almost the same number of words to the colonizer killing three Palestinian civilian protestors, including a child, as to anti-colonial resistance against an occupier’s military forces implies that these actions are equivalent. Yet this supposed equivalence rests on omission: A reference to Palestinians “chanting slogans against a stifling Israeli/Egyptian blockade” of Gaza is the only reason for the protests that the article provides; that the Palestinians are attempting to exercise their right of return is excised from the conversation. Mentioning that more than two-thirds of the Palestinians in Gaza are refugees displaced by Israel, and that Israel and its allies are preventing these refugees from exercising their right to return to their homes, would expose the absurdity of giving equal weight to Palestinian and Israeli grievances.

A CNN story (10/12/18) on Israel’s killing of seven more Palestinian protesters spends 186 words on what Israel has done to Palestinians and on 190 on what amounts to Israel’s point of view. Mentions of the deaths of Palestinians are consistently paired with a reference to ostensible Palestinian violence:

“Seven Palestinians died Friday after being shot by Israeli soldiers along the security fence between Gaza and Israel during violent weekly protests.”
“The deaths occurred during Friday protests, which often turn violent.”
“Israeli soldiers have killed more than 200 Palestinians in the clashes, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, with thousands of others injured. Israel asserts it is protecting its sovereignty from violent rioters. During one protest in July, a Gaza sniper shot and killed an Israeli soldier. The last few months have also seen Gaza militants fire more than 100 rockets and mortars into Israel, which has responded with dozens of air strikes.”

A fake “balance” between Palestinians and Israelis is a “balance” that favors Israel, because it requires a downplaying of the severity of the wrongs Israel has done and is doing to Palestinians, and an amplification of Israel’s untenable rationalizations for these. “Balance” ought not to be the goal of coverage of Palestine/Israel. Instead of pretending that the conduct of Palestinians and Israelis is qualitatively and quantitatively the same, what’s needed is an honest accounting. That necessarily entails foregrounding the dispossession, oppression and murder Israel has inflicted on Palestinians, and situating Palestinian actions in this context. Presenting a wildly unbalanced situation as balanced is as morally bankrupt as it is intellectually indefensible.
https://fair.org/home/imposing-balance- ... 5YOe5B4NFg
#14959775
skinster wrote:No, both do not have claims to the land, only the Palestinians do since they've been living on it for hundreds of years. Just because European Jews decided to colonize Palestine in the 1940s by absurdly telling us that "God gave it to us" while also claiming zionism is a secular ideology, doesn't justify the theft and dispossession of Palestinian land and homes and their ongoing genocide. Not to mention, orthodox Jews, you know, the religious ones, generally oppose Israel since it is a land that is man-made instead of given by god or whatever.


What BS is that? Are you delusional? Let me enlighten you, - a claim to the land has several components, with historical component being only one of them and being the least important one! However, since you insist on claiming history as the righteous reason of Palestinian Arabs claim to the land, I will throw it back in your face, - the Jews have been there much longer!

You dig under any hill in Judea and you will find Jewish artifacts! Go visit the museum in Jerusalem if you need proof, there you will see room after room full of Jewish artifacts found in Israel by archaeologists. They have yet to find anything that is Muslim in nature in substantive numbers. Get it? Go take a look at the Triumphal Arch commemorating Titus in Rome and you will see the Jewish artifacts depicted there dating back to the 2nd century.

Alright, I get what you say, - the modern Jews got their recently. It is still BS! The Jews never left Judea. Many did arrive from elsewhere in the past 200 years, but so did the Arabs! Look up the published census available on the net, if you need any more proof.

Forget historical argument, - it is not important.

A claim to the land needs the decision of UN, the demonstration of the availability of infrastructure that can support the country and finally and most importantly ability to defends the land. THAT IS IT!

Israel qualifies on all counts.

Furthermore, I can just as easily dismiss any and all Arab claims to the land because they have utterly failed to demonstrate any ability to hold on to the land and further failed to build an infrastructure conducive with the meaning of the concept of a country. Get it?

Palestine, as a country, unlike Judea never existed and also never materialized because of Jordanian efforts. It has nothing to do with Israel. You can thank Jordan for not having Palestine back in 1948 and then you can thank Arafat and his successor Abbas for not having Palestine today.

Today, Palestinian dream is dead. Palestine as a country will never come to exist as long as Fatah people continue to sing the same song as they have done since 1964. The Arabs who called themselves Palestinians must grab what they can and run with it. Confederation with Jordan in Area A and parts of Area B is their best bet, followed by a place in Sinai desert plus Gaza offered by Egyptians. They will never have Judea and Samaria. They Jews are back and they are not leaving.

I tell you this, - at some point, Israelis will finally get fed up and we will witness another population migration as happened when Pakistan was created back in 1946. Like I say, - grab what you can and run now, before it is too late.

skinster wrote:Actually, I'd be okay with Palestine staying as it is if Israelis allowed for equality and human rights for the natives as well as themselves, instead of continuing with the ongoing genocide while grabbing more and more land and homes of Palestinians and killing their children very regularly.


Really? Do you really think that Israelis are stupid?

Let me guess, what will be the first thing that Arab majority will do in Israel? Yes, - we both know the answer to that question. They will wholesale murder the Jews! Do not ask for equal rights for the Arabs while having secret desire to get rid of the Jews.

If the Arabs want to leave in one state with the Jews, they must first demonstrate that they can do just that! Let’s give them a few hundred years of leaving peacefully next to the Jews in their own confederacy, on the land that Israel may allocate them. And than we will see about one state. Today the Arabs are incapable to leave in peace with the Jews. So, - for now, Israel in name of security for its citizens keeps Arabs at bay.

Get it?
#14960260
These are bad days for the Arabs.

Brasil elected a pro-Israeli President, he is moving the embassy to Jerusalem.
Nethanyahu was officially received in Mosqat.
Israeli Ministers were officially in the UAE and the Israeli national hymn was played at a sporting event there, the Israeli flag was hoisted.
Iran is feeling the full force of economic and financial sanctions from today.

Egypt and Jordan have both reaffirmed their peace treaty with Israel.

The news of the disappearance of the Jewish State was quite premature :D
#14960430
Things are actually moving in the other direction, Alberta. The young aren't brainwashed by zionism like their parents were. Perhaps because they grow up with social media that isn't controlled by zionists, like corporate media is, and so they can learn the well-documented reality of the situation; a people (Palestinians) had their country stolen from under their feet in the 1940s.

Trump's lovefest with Nethanyahu reduced the American-liberal vote too, by the looks of it. Watching liberal zionists finally jump the ship of zionism has been a delight to watch.
#14961409
skinster wrote:No, I do not get any of your hasbara, I am immune to it, but thanks for trying. :D


Your attitude is truly buffling. When I read your posts it reminds me of a Soviet era communist slogans. All talk and no substance.

You do not substantiate your views. You bring no support for your assertions.

Look here, for instance, you say that the Zionist stole Palestine from the Arabs, but the history records that it was Jordanians that stole Palestine by keeping West Bank from 1948 till 1967. Jordan could give the land to Palestinians but did not. Funny thing is that the Palestinians never complained,- they were happy to be Jordanians, which naturally they were and they still are today.

You say that you want Israel to give rights to Palestinians, but your solution would spell death to Israel as a country. You are totally blind to the fact that you are asking Jews to commit suicide in the name of liberalism.

You advocate a solution to that can never happen, yet you accuse me of Zionist propaganda.

Stop and think! Thinking is hard, by it is nessesary.

It is a fact that countries, like empires, do come and go. Who knows, maybe Palestine will come to be one day.

However, it is a hard fact that people with your views will never see it happen. As long as you are around, Palestinians will continue to be what they are, led by their collective noses by their own inept leadership.

Do not look to Israel to fix Palestinian problems, - the Arabs must first want to be better and finally grow up. When Palestinians smarten up, then we may talk.

Get it?
#14961816
SOMEBODY thinks he/she is the first hasbara troll I've come across.

[quote]You say that you want Israel to give rights to Palestinians, but your solution would spell death to Israel as a country. You are totally blind to the fact that you are asking Jews to commit suicide in the name of liberalism. [/quote]

Yes, Palestinians should have human rights too, civil rights, equal rights, freedom of movement. Yes, Palestine should be free.

This solution won't spell death for Israel. It'll be a death to ethnosupremacy in a multi-nation land, but that would be a good thing, and how it was before zionists invaded Palestine. Nazis liked ethnosupremacy too, why would you want to be like them? I thought your ilk hated them, but you act like they did to a degree.

Sharing space with the people you stole from = committing suicide :lol:
#14961824
skinster wrote:SOMEBODY thinks he/she is the first hasbara troll I've come across.




Watch the film the Israel lobby didn't want you to see

https://electronicintifada.net/tags/lobby-usa

The Electronic Intifada has obtained a complete copy of The Lobby – USA, a four-part undercover investigation by Al Jazeera into Israel’s covert influence campaign in the United States.

We are releasing the leaked film simultaneously with France’s Orient XXI and Lebanon’s Al-Akhbar, which have respectively subtitled the episodes in French and Arabic.

The film was made by Al Jazeera during 2016 and was completed in October 2017.

But it was censored after Qatar, the gas-rich Gulf emirate that funds Al Jazeera, came under intense Israel lobby pressure not to air the film.

Although Al Jazeera’s director-general claimed last month that there were outstanding legal issues with the film, his assertions have been flatly contradicted by his own journalists.

In March, The Electronic Intifada was the first to report on any of the film’s specific content. We followed this in August by publishing the first extract of the film, and shortly after Max Blumenthal at the Grayzone Project released others.

Since then, The Electronic Intifada has released three other extracts, and several other journalists have watched the entire film and written about it – including Alain Gresh and Antony Loewenstein.

Now The Electronic Intifada can reveal for the first time that it has obtained all four parts of the film.
#14962282
skinster wrote:SOMEBODY thinks he/she is the first hasbara troll I've come across.


Let me help you, - I am 'he'. Also, when I disagree with you, it is not because I am trolling. I simply disagree. You are free to state your case as you see fit. My point to you is simple, - you have not stated a case so far, you are stuck on an illusion.

skinster wrote: ...Yes, Palestinians should have human rights too, civil rights, equal rights, freedom of movement. Yes, Palestine should be free.


I agree. Palestinian Arabs should have all that...just not at the expense of Israel. Furthermore, you cannot ask Israel to give them those rights, it is not Israel's to give! At this time, those rights must come from Palestinian Authority that has control of Area 'A' and partial control of Area 'B' and all of Gaza. . Let the Palestinian Arabs build a free and prosperous society there, with full civil rights, free electoral process, etc. Israel will welcome this and will help to that end.

The Arabs have yet to do this. So far they proved to be incapable to do this. All they do is complain of occupation and blockade. It is laughable, - what occupation is that? The blockade is there for a good reason, just ask the Egyptians.

Need I remind you that Mr. Abbas was elected for 4 years...that was more then a dozen years ago! He is still in power. Hamas was elected after throwing Fatah people from the rooftops. Great electoral process!

The Arabs couldn't do election even if their collective lives were to depend on it. LOL! They can't have free society or civil rights even if it were given to them. And you fault Israel for Arab impotence! Get real!

Israel does not occupy Palestinian Arab land, they hold the land in question because they dispute that land. It is not Arab land and it has never been Arab land. Do the Arabs have a claim to it?, - sure they do. But so do the Israelis! If you insist on calling this land an Arab land, I can't stop you, but talk is cheap! Prove it!

I can prove that it is NOT Arab land and I can defend my views from International Law perspective if you wish. It is actually easy to do. Fair?

skinster wrote:...This solution won't spell death for Israel. It'll be a death to ethnosupremacy in a multi-nation land, but that would be a good thing, and how it was before zionists invaded Palestine.


You are living in 'la-la' land. Palestinian Arabs stated in no uncertain terms that a one-state solution with immediate Palestinian majority will result in electoral victory by the Arab majority. Followed by a dissolution of Israel as a state and closure of Jewish institutions. Do you really expect the only working country in the Middle East to commit suicide and to be replaced by yet another failed Arab state? How many failed Arab states must the World at large tolerate and bankroll?

Zionists never invaded Palestine. You are making things up. Zionists won the armed conflict back in 1948 and again in 1967 and again 1973, - they won wars again the Arabs. The Zionists fought over the land that UN had allocated to them. They did not invade that land. Brash up on your history lessons! The West Bank was supposed to be Palestine back in 1948. But the Arabs did not want that. They wanted everything, including the land that was allocated to the Zionists. The Arabs went to war and they lost!

Today things have changed. There are consequences for loosing. Israel will never go back to the boundaries of 1948. Doing so will result in another war and this time with the likes of Iran, even though they are Shia. The war will have full support of Palestinians and perhaps other Sunni Arabs. However, this time the Arabs may face a real catastrophe. Israel is a regional superpower with weapons that only a superpower may have. Israel will use its weapons if pushed to the brink. It unwise, as it is extremely dangerous, to appear weak in the Middle East or to corner Israel into the politically and strategically impossible position. I hope that it is not too difficult for you to comprehend.

skinster wrote:...Nazis liked ethnosupremacy too, why would you want to be like them? I thought your ilk hated them, but you act like they did to a degree.

Sharing space with the people you stole from = committing suicide :lol:


Funny, - you are equating Israel with Nazi Germany! This is stupid. Sure..sure, - 1.8 million Arabs that hold Israeli passports are living in concentration camps, - hungry and in danger of imminent death. Are you crazy or just pretending to by dumb?

No Arabs in Israeli parliament, not even one, right? No Arabs on a Supreme Court, none! No Arabs in universities, absolutely not. No Arab doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers...no Arab millionaires! Wow, listen to you, Israel is a Nazi state, - they kill Arab men and rape Arab women everyday all day long. You know I also heard the the Jews eat Arab babies, - do you think its true?

Get this, - the Jews do not need to share the space with Arabs, - there are 22 Arab countries already out there. There is only one Jewish State and a very small one at that. I think the Arabs have enough land and I am sure the majority of the people in world will support that view.

Here is what I know for a fact, - Israel is more then capable to defend this view in court or on the battlefield. You may pick your poison, as it were, if you want to contest it...
#14962406
Metoo wrote:Zionists never invaded Palestine. You are making things up.


:lol:

Excuse me while I ignore your hasbara, person who joined just two months ago and whose only posts are defending Israel. You will never convince me or most people who pay attention to the reality of the situation, which by the way is very well documented.

That dogshit you posted above fooled people not that long ago but we're living in a slightly different world today and only people like yourself believe your own bullshit, the rest of us know what hasbara is. I have a copy of the Frank Luntz leaked paper on how to lie for Israel, so I see where you're coming from, thanks for trying.

Oh btw you should watch the undercover documentaries, The Israel Lobby, if you wanna see in video form the shit that people like you do on the internet. :D Here's an interview on it:
Last edited by skinster on 12 Nov 2018 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
#14962425
Since I don't live in Gaza, I don't need to prepare. Palestinians are strong, they've survived this long under Israeli terror and they will continue until they are free. Israel on the other hand will increasingly be seen as the pariah savage state that it is, which is good. Liberal zionists have been jumping the ship of racist zionism a lot lately, I welcome more of them to join us. :)
#14963763
:lol:
IRISH 'LAWYER FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE' ARRESTED FOR DRUNK, RACIST RANT

An inebriated woman who claimed to be an international lawyer and pro-Palestinian activist was arrested after a racist, abusive rant aboard an Air India flight.

The woman was identified in The Times as Simone O’Broin, 50, from Belfast in Northern Ireland. A video of the incident posted on Twitter by Tarun Shukla, an aviation reporter for Economic Times Prime.

In the video, O’Broin – also known as Burns – can be hear berating staff how they’re treating “business class passengers like that, who are international criminal lawyers for the Palestinian people... I’m working for all your people, the f***ing Rohingya... don’t get any money for it by the way, but you can’t give me a f***ing glass of wine, is that correct?”

According to several reports, O’Broin was irate that she was denied more alcohol and also told she cannot smoke on board the aircraft.
Irish lady behaves in such an abusive, racist way with @airindiain crew for being refused extra drinks. Very decent AI crew behaviour. Arrested on landing. Wonder if she should have been controlled onboard with handcuffs. @JitiBhargava @Mohan_Rngnathan pic.twitter.com/kSTDmGOEm5

— Tarun Shukla (@shukla_tarun) November 13, 2018

O’Broin also told the Air India crew member that she was the “leader of the f***ing boycott movement – if I say boycott Air India, done. Do you understand me?”

In the video, O’Broin continues to rant and rave, calling one staff member an “Indian money-grubbing bastard” and using other racial and misogynistic slurs. She then repeatedly proclaimed that she is a “human rights lawyer for the f***ing Palestinian people” as well as the “Irish Republic Army... you’ll be f***ing shot.”

The London Metropolitan Police confirmed to Business Insider on Wednesday that O’Broin was arrested when she landed at Heathrow Airport “on suspicion of racially aggravated public order, common assault, and drunk and disorderly and taken to a west London police station. The arrest related to incidents that had occurred on board the plane. She was subsequently released under investigation.”

O’Broin was traveling from Mumbai to London on Saturday, and video of the incident was first posted online on Tuesday, leading to widespread media coverage and the discovery of the woman’s identity.

Despite O’Broin’s repeated claims of being an international criminal lawyer and activist, there was not a lot of information online linking her to the cause. In 2012, she wrote two reports for BADIL, the Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights. The online catalogue of the Bethlehem University Library lists a paper she wrote in 2011 titled “Applying international criminal law to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people.” And in 2010 she signed a letter written the BBC complaining that its coverage of the Mavi Marmara incident “was little more than an extension of Israel’s PR offensive.”

https://www.jpost.com/International/Iri ... ant-571978

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