[Heinie]

I don't know what my favourite part of that speech and interview was; when she called BDS rightwing and fascist, when she kept talking about herself being an "old socialist" and simultaneously shitting on leftists, the left, socialism etc. and endorsing rightwing-Israel's policies....or when she kept talking about class issues in Israel between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews while fully ignoring the status (or non-status) of occupied Palestinians.

She is a riot.

You listened to the whole thing?! I wish I had such tolerance of diatribe.

Upset Jews want Austrian Bank to close BDS account
Showing the continued efficacy of BDS, several pro-Israel Jewish groups are demanding that Erste Group bank close an account it provides to a BDS group in Austria. "The bank should tell BDS Austria to take its business elsewhere," New York-born Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday. ... "The secretary-general of Vienna’s Jewish community, Raimund Fastenbauer, told the Post last week that Erste Group should close the account of BDS Austria."
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Austrian-bank-engulfed-in-anti-Semitism-dispute-over-BDS-account-449722
So, BDS has not only the Israelis hot-under-the-collar but their supporters in Austria and the USA.


Raimund Fastenbauer, Generalsekretär des Bundesverbandes der Israelitischen Kultusgemeinden in Österreich und Generalsekretär für jüdische Angelegenheiten der Israelitischen Kultusgemeinde Wien.

[skinster]

BDS updates:

UN Human Rights Council votes to establish database of settlement companies

168 Italian scholars from more than 50 universities signed a pledge calling on their institutions to cut ties with the Israel institute of Technology (Technion) in Haifa.

Renowned international record fair backs cultural boycott of Israel

University College London Union votes to boycott Israel

[skinster]

Fighting Israeli Occupying Forces is considered "terrorism", BDS is considered "anti-semitism"....what is allowed, zionists?

[Heinie]

Fighting Israeli Occupying Forces is considered "terrorism", BDS is considered "anti-semitism"....what is allowed, zionists?

Not only do the Zionist politicians call Palestinians who resist the occupation army "terrorists", so does all the Israeli media. Because BDS wants to see an end to the occupation, like conscripted Israli soldiers who spill the beans about IDF crimes, it is considered anti-Semitic. This is all part of the diet of hate that is the norm in Israeli society.

[redcarpet]

Because BDS wants to see an end to the occupation

BDS individuals intend the dissolved of Israel, so are opposed to Jews having their own state. So yes, they are anti-semitic.

[skinster]

^ prove that shit or continue to display yourself as a hasbarist.

[wat0n]

It's most certainly true with regards to key figures within the movement, e.g. Omar Barghouti (who doesn't even deny it).

[skinster]

Nice proof.

[wat0n]

I don't think one can know whether BDS supporters in general prefer a one or two-state solution given that no survey has been done asking the question, don't you think?

But it is factually true that there are important figures within the movement that are against the two-state solution, like Omar Barghouti - as he has said publicly anyway.

[skinster]

If that's true, he would have something in common with the Israeli prime minister and a lot of MKs in Israel.

Dreams of a two-state are over. Only racists oppose a one-state solution.

[wat0n]

If that's true, he would have something in common with the Israeli prime minister and a lot of MKs in Israel.

Indeed, they are all unwilling to accept that the other side has a right to decide its own destiny.

Dreams of a two-state are over. Only racists oppose a one-state solution.

I'd actually say it's the other way, usually it is extremists who support the one state solution and are unwilling to accept that other people, particularly those from the out-group, may not agree with them.

[skinster]

Indeed, they are all unwilling to accept that the other side has a right to decide its own destiny.

Yes, the Israeli govt rejects the idea of a two-state solution, so stop crying if/when any supporters of BDS agree on that, especially considering only the former have the power in making that happen.

I'd actually say it's the other way, usually it is extremists who support the one state solution and are unwilling to accept that other people, particularly those from the out-group, may not agree with them.

How exactly is it extreme to support a one-state solution where there is one state - as there currently is - where everyone, be they Jewish, Muslim or Christian, Bedouin, Druze etc. all have equal rights?

[JohnRawls]

Sry for the late reply, i don't have much time nowadays. First of all i didn't have the time to watch the video that you linked Skinsterina.

Israel attacked on numerous times, on the natives of Palestine (which it currently continues to occupy or blockade) as well as neighbouring countries.

Why must Israel need its safety guaranteed when it already has so much power?

The above demand is like the demand for Israel to be declared the 'Jewish state'. Basically it's pathetic, especially considering the other side don't have an army.

Israel does have a lot of power in the context of Israeli-Palestenian conflict. Israel doesn't have much power in the context that it is surrounded by Arab states that don't recognise the existence of israel or recognise it grudgingly. When i said that Israel was attacked, i did clarify it was by the neighbours (Egypt, Syria etc etc etc) Israel simply can not show weakness of any sort in this situation or compromise. This complex of a state under siege exists for a reason because Israel has faced and still faces existential questions to its security. Nor do they have any gurantees that currently moderate states will not switch sides and will attempt to remove them from the map. Israel requires something like NATO membership ( It will never get NATO membership, it is an example).

This however doesn't excuse Israels behaviour in the occupied territories.(You are correct on that in my opinion) The situation described above contributes to the situation in the occupied territories and to solve the occupied territories question, you will need to solve the general security question for Israel first.

Who cares if Israel will accept it. Israel's whims supercede those of international law?

BTW Israel currently has no borders, because it is an expansionist state.

Israel whims as you call them come from the fact that there were no negotiations/attempts to solve the Israeli-Palestenian conflict. So Israel did whatever it wanted in the occupied territories, the same way the Arab states did whatever they wanted when they attacked Israel. I understand that international law is a set of guidelines but it is not binding nor is it enforced actually in majority of the cases. In the same sense america also doesn't honour international law that it has no interest in. The same thing can be said about Russia, China, UK etc etc etc.

Again this does not excuse those countries but it is a fact of life i guess. Unless an agreement or some sort of arrangement is achieved between the two sides then this behaviour will continue.

Israel already exists so repeating zionist bs like "it has a right to exist" is kind of just stupid. Israel, however, doesn't allow Palestine to exist so it shouldn't be making retarded demands.

It is not a retarded demand. How can Israel guarantee its own safety when its neighbours don't acknowledge their right to exist? I simply don't get it. Most of countries in Europe fought for their right to exist for centuries if you want Israel to do the same then its fine if you don't acknowledge it. If you want the conflict to reach some kind of peaceful conclusion then Palestein and also many other Arab countries need to acknowledge Israels existence and its right to live on the land along side palestenians.

In the same sense i can say that Palestein exists so there is no point in saying 'it has a right to exist'. But this turns into circular logic. The better way of putting it is that both sides need to acknowledge that they have a right to exist: Israel and Palestein.

Who are you to decide whether Hamas should be disbanded or whether the - untrustworthy from a Palestinian perspective - PA should be in control?

I can't decide that. Disbanding Hamas is a touchy subject actually. Perhaps it is possible to achieve a peace plan without doing it but then Israel will need a gurantee that they are not gonna get attacked again if they pull out etc. The simplest step that the PA can take regarding that is disbanding Hamas. It might be symbolic though because non-existance on paper, doesn't mean that they don't really exist.

If you look at what the radicals and more radical leaning Israelies are saying on the topic then you will understand that they are afraid of this more than anything. Lets say they agree to a pull out but what if the violence continues just in a different place closer to their homes? That is the general argument of radical Zionists on this subject. They are convinced that this is going to happen and that is why a peace plan is not possible in their mind. To achieve a peace plan this mental barrier needs to be overcome.

It is Israel that is unwilling to go to any lengths for anything, you can see why from the video above. It seems you missed the part where one is an occupying military force while the other are people with little to no rights living under an oppressive state.

This is a bit unfair. Israel has underlying reasons why it is unable or too afraid to go to any lengths. If those reasons/problems are solved then there is a chance for a real peace plan. Israel is an occupying military force but simply forcing Israel to surrender to BDS will not solve the underlying issues that Israel faces. That is why i think BDS will not work. Yes you can hurt Israelis economy(Fair enough) but even a poor Israel with dying economy will never agree to a peace plan because physical security trumps monetary gain in eyes of any human being.

[noemon]

Sry for the late reply, i don't have much time nowadays. First of all i didn't have the time to watch the video that you linked Skinsterina.

You should watch it as it is video made an Israeli Zionist, who is the son of one of Israel's Generals and celebrated heroes(now deceased) and that goes a long way in Israel whose Generals are celebrities in the literal sense. His niece was killed in a terrorist attack and that made the man reevaluate life, Israel and Zionism in general, he had access to classified information through his father, that render your entire post wrong and meaningless.

[JohnRawls]

I will try to find the time to watch it Noemon. Problem with this conflict is that both sides are entrenched in their positions because they view it as a matter of survival. So any discussion on the topic usually leads to heavily leaning arguments.

[noemon]

That is why watching that video is so important because the classified documents this man has prove that it was never an issue of survival for Israel. And that it pre-emptively attacked all its neighbors long before they could even mobilize their forces exactly because it discovered that they were incapable to defend themselves. It did so in 1948 when the ethnic-cleansing against Palestinians went on without any fight for at least 6 months before any Arab soldier crossed into Palestine and again in 1967 when the classified documents show that the Arabs were at their weakest point dealing with internal issues that it decided it was time to strike to gain the upper hand and occupy the Golan, Sinai, Gaza, and the West Bank.

For Palestinians it is a matter of survival though because people are being dragged out of their houses and then made to watch their demolition and that inside their own territory. There is no point for any sane person to try to spin this as a security precaution.

[skinster]

You should watch it as it is video made an Israeli Zionist...

He should most definitely watch it, but I just wanted to make a correction: Miko is Israeli but an outspoken anti-zionist now, he used to be zionist. I met him in DC at the anti-AIPAC protest last month and he's lovely. He's speaking here in NYC next week.

BDS updates:
After BDS pressure, Brazilian province cancels cooperation agreement with Israel’s Mekorot

Palestinian Women’s Call for Worldwide Women’s Endorsement of BDS

Unitarian Universalists divest from companies profiting from Israel’s occupation

Writers pull out of PEN festival over Israel sponsorship

[Heinie]

By allowing pro-Israel Suzanne Nossel to become the Executive Director, PEN American Center has disgraced itself. In the link, we can read that "Nossel spoke at the Jacob Blaustein Institute for the Advancement of Human Rights, where she discussed how she worked to normalize Israel within the UN Human Rights Council. Nossel boasted, for instance, that during her two-year tenure the number of resolutions criticizing Israel was reduced from 56 percent of the country-specific resolutions to 30 percent, and sessions focusing on Israel were eliminated altogether. Nossel also claimed responsibility for winning the appointment of an Israeli academic to the Human Rights Council’s consultative group. “We have worked very closely with Israel on the ‘positive agenda,’” Nossel said." So, her modus operandi of insinuating herself into various positions in order to promote Israel is undeniable. Nossel is also an advocate for illegal preemptive war and has refused to denounce the use of torture and use of extrajudicial killings although she worked for both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Allowing the Israeli government to be a sponsor of the PEN Festival while having a callous disregard for Israeli mistreatment of the Palestinian journalists and writers surprises no one.

It cannot be denied that the Israelis are smarting over BDS and we are reminded in the link that last year "the Israeli government implemented a law that bars government funding to individuals or organizations who support a boycott of Israel and makes those who do potentially liable for damages. The Israeli anti-boycott law has already had a marked chilling effect on the free expression of Israeli citizens." BDS is clearly making progress toward its goal of ending the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

[youtube]mnVuDz1pBGA[/youtube]

[redcarpet]

BDS is clearly making progress toward its goal of ending the Israeli occupation of Palestine

That is such wishful thinking I almost fainted reading it.

Netanyahu was forced to sit in coalition with the Jewish Home party which represents the settlers and their supporters. Said party had formed an unflinching post-election pact with the hyper-secularist Yesh Atid party. Together they had more knesset seats than Netanyahu and he couldn't realistically form a government without them. He then had to decide: either a settlement freeze or a large release of prisoners. Jewish Home made it clear that another settlement freeze was their red line and they'd immediately pull out of the coalition. Netanyahu had also promised his own right-wing Likud parliamentarians that the last settlement freeze was a one time event to get peace negotiations going (which it didn't). Netanyahu is far from loved right now within his own party, having lost them many seats in the election, become suspect on peace negotiations and with a precarious economic situation. So a prisoner release it was, including many murderers. That's how the continued settlement building in the West Bank came about.

The window has passed. The possibility, in my view, ended when a scumbag assassinated Rabin. The possibility of a Pal. state died with him.

Israel is getting more right wing and more religious. It's not going in the other direction. The USA would have to pull the plug on Israel, but here's no sign of that either.

[skinster]

Students at the University of Chicago are celebrating the passage of a resolution calling on the institution to divest assets from firms aiding or profiting from Israel’s violation of human rights and international law in Palestine.