[seamen]

Unfortunately I can find “facts on the ground” that prove your point. Fatah has taken the road of negotiation towards a peace settlement in the West Bank, and seen a drastic increase in the expansion work of Israeli settlements. While in the Gaza strip where violent resistance is still carried out, settlements have been removed. So this does in a since prove your point that attempting to gain peace through negotiations just ends up with Israel increasing settlement activity

A note: I could say the opposite. In the WB where Israel dont give up lands, the Palestinians took the path of negotations while in Gaza when Israel retreated you saw Hamas taking over control and shooting rockets. Funny, isnt it?

[Bosnjak]

Open up a new Israel in Madagaskar and the Zionists will again have war and hatred... no matter on which part of the Earth, no matter which time it is, the Jewish shadow is hate and violence, before they had troubles in Palestine, they had troubles in Germany, before this troubles in East-Europe, then troubles in West-Europe, then troubles in Spain...

[Oxymoron]

the Jewish shadow is hate and violence, before they had troubles in Palestine, they had troubles in Germany, before this troubles in East-Europe, then troubles in West-Europe, then troubles in Spain...

Yeah we Jooz sure are "evil" . Almost as "evil" as the Musselman who were trouble makers in Bosnia and Kosovo.

[Bosnjak]

Yeah we Jooz sure are "evil" . Almost as "evil" as the Musselman who were trouble makers in Bosnia and Kosovo.

The War started first between catholic Croats, and orthodox Serbs, then were we involved. About Kosovo this was a war between two Nations and resources, kosovo is full of cole, gold, ironore, silver. The Albanians were Allies of the USA and the Serbs were Allied with Russia:

Kosova [Kosovo] mine [mineral] resources are worthy of 13.5 billion euros, according to a joint survey conducted by the Directorate for Mines and Minerals and the World Bank http://kosovareport.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... neral.html

And on Balkan we have the tradition to kill each other or to lead war together against somebody every 30-50 Years. the simple reason is on the Balkans Revange, not religion, the Serbs asked 1990 for revange what croat and bosnian fascist did to them in WW2.


The WW1 started in the Bosnian Capitol. and we killed each other Bosnians and Croats in Austrian Uniforms the Serbs in their own. We have this tradition since our Slavic Tribes entered the South.



The Jews have also an extreme reatailliation culture and the arrogance to feel to be something better then the others.

[Oxymoron]

The Jews have also an extreme reatailliation culture and the arrogance to feel to be something better then the others.

We also swoop in at nights and kidnap Christian and Muslim children to make Matza with.

[Bosnjak]

We also swoop in at nights and kidnap Christian and Muslim children to make Matza with.

This is a east-european myth against Jews, the herritage of this myth is the Baba Yaga/Baba Roga in Slavic folklore, a witch-like character who flies around on a giant mortar, kidnaps (and presumably eats) small children.


This anti-semitic slavic myth was also published in the middle-east.

[SouthBeirut]

We also swoop in at nights and kidnap Christian and Muslim children to make Matza with.

Why do you need to hide with new answers whenever somebody writes ? It has been said by a non-Zionist Jew that the Jewish attitude towards enemies is never to forgive, never to forget. It can be seen in this video from 6:40 to 6:47. But I recommend the whole video to watch really.

[Tailz]

A note: I could say the opposite. In the WB where Israel dont give up lands, the Palestinians took the path of negotations while in Gaza when Israel retreated you saw Hamas taking over control and shooting rockets. Funny, isnt it?

I’d hardly rate this fiasco as a comedy. So you suspect that greater levels of land theft results in an adversary willing to negotiate, while making land concessions causes them to become violent. This assumption only works if you assume the resistance or negotiation started at those key points (the withdrawal or the increase in settlement activity) while also ignoreing all the other IDF raids, terrorist bombings, fence building, etc, that also went on. But we both know the conflict (settlement activity, negotiations, and the resistance) have all been going on for a long time before Sharon decided to withdraw from Gaza.

[LehmanB]

wont work.
and i'm sick of that too.
terror stopped only after 1967, and started in 1993 when israel decided to create a state for the arabs who are calling themselves palestinians. no busses exploded in israel before israel gave them territories. hmm
i think eventualy jordan will be the palestinian state and israel the jewish state. and the west bank will belong to israel because there wont be any other option- its INSIDE israel.

if u wonder- the british have called both israel and jordan- palestine. thus arabs who lived in those lands are palestinians. 85% of the arabs in jordan are palestinians- those who were born and died in jordan. israel is just a small part of this land.


rule number one: if the arabs can- they will.

they didnt do terror when israel was strong. they have started when israel shrinked and gave them power.
see graph of rockets to israel- israel gave them gaza- terror STARTED from zero. israel evacuated jews in 2005- rockets became more seveare. 10 km between tel aviv and neighbours who hates israel and the west is a disaster. 1967 wes born because it didnt worked before.
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/ ... 007svg.png

and when israel have started to get closer to those boarders again- the terror started again.

its balances. not peace. since 1993 the balance was broken.

[Tailz]

terror stopped only after 1967, and started in 1993 when israel decided to create a state for the arabs who are calling themselves palestinians. no busses exploded in israel before israel gave them territories. Hmm

Acording to a study of Yasir Arafat’s career in terrorism, the activity that Arafat was involved with between 1967 and 1993 was:

1965-1967: Numerous Fatah bomb attacks target Israeli villages, water pipes, railroads. Homes are destroyed and Israelis are killed.

- - - - BEGIN PERIOD - - - -

July 1968: Fatah joins and becomes the dominant member of the PLO, an umbrella organization of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Feb. 4, 1969: Arafat is appointed Chairman of the Executive Committee of the PLO
Feb. 21, 1970: SwissAir flight 330, bound for Tel Aviv, is bombed in mid-flight by PFLP, a PLO member group. 47 people are killed.
May 8, 1970: PLO terrorists attack an Israeli schoolbus with bazooka fire, killing nine pupils and three teachers from Moshav Avivim
Sept. 6, 1970: TWA, Pan-Am, and BOAC airplanes are hijacked by PLO terrorists.
September 1970: Jordanian forces battle the PLO terrorist organization, driving its members out of Jordan after the group's violent activity threatens to destabilize the kingdom. The terrorists flee to Lebanon. This period in PLO history is called “Black September.”
May 1972: PFLP, part of the PLO, dispatches members of the Japanese Red Army to attack Lod Airport in Tel Aviv, killing 27 people.
Sept. 5, 1972: Munich Massacre —11 Israeli athletes are murdered at the Munich Olympics by a group calling themselves “Black September,”said to be an arm of Fatah, operating under Arafat's direct command.
March 1, 1973: Palestinian terrorists take over Saudi embassy in Khartoum. The next day, two Americans, including United States ambassador to Sudan Cleo Noel, and a Belgian were shot and killed. James J. Welsh, an analyst for the National Security Agency from 1969 through 1974, charged Arafat with direct complicity in these murders.
April 11, 1974: 11 people are killed by Palestinian terrorists who attack apartment building in Kiryat Shmona.
May 15, 1974: PLO terrorists infiltrating from Lebanon hold children hostage in Ma'alot school. 26 people, 21 of them children, are killed.
June 9, 1974: Palestinian National Council adopts “Phased Plan,” which calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state on any territory evacuated by Israel, to be used as a base of operations for destroying the whole of Israel. The PLO reaffirms its rejection of United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, which calls for a “just and lasting peace” and the “right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.”
November 1974: PLO takes responsibility for the PDFLP's Beit She'an murders in which 4 Israelis are killed.
Nov. 13, 1974: Arafat, wearing a holster (he had to leave his gun at the entrance), addresses the U.N. General Assembly.
March 1975: Members of Fatah attack the Tel Aviv seafront and take hostages in the Savoy hotel. Three soldiers, three civilians and seven terrorists are killed.
March 1978: Coastal Road Massacre —Fatah terrorists take over a bus on the Haifa-Tel Aviv highway and kill 21 Israelis.
1982: Having created a terrorist mini-state in Lebanon destabilizing that nation, PLO is expelled as a result of Israel's response to incessant PLO missile attacks against northern Israeli communities. Arafat relocates to Tunis.
Oct. 7, 1985: Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro is hijacked by Palestinian terrorists. Wheelchair-bound elderly man, Leon Klinghoffer, was shot and thrown overboard. Intelligence reports note that instructions originated from Arafat's headquarters in Tunis.
Dec. 12, 1988: Arafat claims to accept Israel's right to exist.

- - - - END PERIOD - - - -

September 1993: Arafat shakes hands with Israeli Prime Minister Rabin, inaugurating the Oslo Accords. Arafat pledges to stop incitement and terror, and to foster co-existence with Israel, but fails to comply. Throughout the years of negotiations, aside from passing, token efforts, Arafat does nothing to stop Hamas, PFLP, and Islamic Jihad from carrying out thousands of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. With Arafat's encouragement and financial support, groups directly under Arafat's command, such as the Tanzim and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, also carry out terror attacks.

So as we can see, terrorism did take place during the period you wrote that terrorism didn’t take place. And the above is the actions Arafat was involved with in some way, so there could have been more by other groups.

Your comment is just an attempt to perpetuate the new Zionist mythology that concessions to the Palestinians spawns violent resistance. While excluding the occupation and actions of settlers from the equation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

i think eventualy jordan will be the palestinian state and israel the jewish state. and the west bank will belong to israel because there wont be any other option- its INSIDE israel.

Since you seem to know what is inside and what is outside Israel, can you fill us in on what are Israel’s borders?

If Israel was to annex the West Bank, the move would increase the Arab population in Israel – causing the demographic problems those Zionists who worry about race matters, talk of. Unless you’re suggesting Israel annex the territory and expel or exterminate its Arab inhabitants.

if u wonder- the british have called both israel and jordan- palestine. thus arabs who lived in those lands are palestinians. 85% of the arabs in jordan are palestinians- those who were born and died in jordan. israel is just a small part of this land.

Yes, and your point is?

rule number one: if the arabs can- they will.

That’s a useless bigoted generalization. I’m quite certain someone around here could say the same about Zionists.

they didnt do terror when israel was strong. they have started when israel shrinked and gave them power.

Do you really have such a limited memory of this conflict?

Yasir Arafat co-founded the “Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine” in the 1950’s, so I suspect that there has been some kind of action against Israel from at least then onwards, else how did Arafat become so important if he didn’t do anything until a few years ago?

see graph of rockets to israel- israel gave them gaza- terror STARTED from zero. israel evacuated jews in 2005- rockets became more seveare. 10 km between tel aviv and neighbours who hates israel and the west is a disaster. 1967 wes born because it didnt worked before.
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/ ... 007svg.png

That’s a graph of rocket attacks, rockets are just one tactic of attacking Israel that the resistance groups moved to when smuggling people & explosives into Israel became harder. And when it becomes too hard to launch rockets, I suspect they will switch to another tactic. The terrorism has been going on for far longer then your short memory.

and when israel have started to get closer to those boarders again- the terror started again.

What borders?

its balances. not peace. since 1993 the balance was broken.[

What balance? Israel is the one in the position of power as the military occupier – what the heck are you babbling about??

[LehmanB]

oh dear, i back from the statement there was no terror. it is more complicated. there is truth in it, but not in the clear way i have written it.
indeed in 1982 israel attacked the PLO in Lebanon, exiled them to Tunis. due to their terror attacks.
the life inside israel were much more secure indeed. you could go shopping in gaza, walk in the streets of Ramallah. till 1993. no compare to the number of attempts for terror attacks after 1993.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/images/sitepics/israel-terrorist-attacks.gif
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/oslo1.gif

when i wrote, when israel was strong there was no terror attacks, ofcaurse it is wrong to write it that way.
when Israel controled on these areas, and acted in strong hand, there was much less terror, this is the exact term i shall use. 1996-1999- Netanyahu rightist rejime. see the graph.
The PLO is the source of the troubles. or organizing attacks on israel threw jordanian boarder into israel, or from lebanon, or from inside israel- since 1993- and thats what increased dramaticly the terror attacks.

the rockets are important- you should look what happen in gaza after the Hitnatkut in 2005. thats what the graph realy shows. thats the different between terror, and hell- what happen to sirael after 2005. (and to gaza.)

demographics, it is the only reason israel builds the wall, and invented this new group a new state.
the price- is the slaughtery of israeli citizens, occured mainly after 1993.
in your article you brought- you forgot to mantion very other important things-
Arafat estublished a horrible education system, teaching to hate, wash minds the arabs under his control. please search on that. that is more important than all the rest. and he succeeded. the arabs in israel are much more antisemites, and anti israelis, and i do seperate that, nd they are more of both of them, due to therie education system, which israel ignored, wanting not to control them.

mein kampf is the 4th popular book in ramallah , 2006 [1].
Abu Mazen, their president, and Arafat, have allowed wide spreading of those books among horrible pictures and songs from their TV wshbrins the palestinian arabs in israel, no other word.

thats the price of giving a state to the PLO inside israel. Israel have brought in 1993 the PLO members from Tunis, to make peace with, and gave to the PLO the control over all the arabs in the west bank and gaza strip. this is the peace agreement israel created.- its not a peace agreement, its a war agreement. except for demographic reasons, which i think its not the right solution even to this, its a war agreement in all the manners.

thank you tailz for the source though.

[Tailz]

oh dear, i back from the statement there was no terror. it is more complicated. there is truth in it, but not in the clear way i have written it.
indeed in 1982 israel attacked the PLO in Lebanon, exiled them to Tunis. due to their terror attacks.
the life inside israel were much more secure indeed. you could go shopping in gaza, walk in the streets of Ramallah. till 1993. no compare to the number of attempts for terror attacks after 1993.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/image ... ttacks.gif
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/oslo1.gif

What you’re trying to prove, is that if you make peace with the Palestinians, they see it as a sign of weakness and attack more – so don’t make peace, that’s what you’re trying to show. Those charts go part way to proving this, only because those charts are only showing Palestinian terrorism between peace deal signings – they exclude Israeli raids, collective punishment, IDF operations and retaliation – thus the perspective is biased – you will only get the full picture by comparing all of those things together.

And I don’t doubt in the slightest that Ramallah may have been a nice place to visit for an Israeli-Jew when the IDF was patrolling in strength.

when i wrote, when israel was strong there was no terror attacks, ofcaurse it is wrong to write it that way.
when Israel controled on these areas, and acted in strong hand, there was much less terror, this is the exact term i shall use. 1996-1999- Netanyahu rightist rejime. see the graph.
The PLO is the source of the troubles. or organizing attacks on israel threw jordanian boarder into israel, or from lebanon, or from inside israel- since 1993- and thats what increased dramaticly the terror attacks.

Certainly when you live in a police state there will be less terrorism because of a lack of personal freedoms. But you also forget that the resistance changed as the occupation itself changes, as settlement building expanded and the methods of population control changed – so too did the resistance.

The PLO is one source of trouble, but Zionism is another source of trouble via coveting the land upon which the Palestinians live for Jewish settlement. And in most recent years the growth of Islamic resistance groups such as Hamas, and the expansion of Settler groups with IDF facilitation of settlement security.

the rockets are important- you should look what happen in gaza after the Hitnatkut in 2005. thats what the graph realy shows. thats the different between terror, and hell- what happen to sirael after 2005. (and to gaza.)

But the graph excludes what happened on the Israeli side, thus it is data in a vacuum – as most Palestinian terrorism is reactive to Israeli action and visa-versa for Israeli action.

Take for example the violence in response to Sharon’s visit to the Temple mount, if you exclude Sharon’s visit to the temple mount and his diatribe of rhetoric in the papers, then you lose all context to the violence.

demographics, it is the only reason israel builds the wall, and invented this new group a new state.

Israel builds a wall to make it difficult for Palastinians to transit into Israel proper – but it is also used as a mrthod of annexing land that is then consumed into settler communties.

the price- is the slaughtery of israeli citizens, occured mainly after 1993.

The high death toll of Palastinians is also the price, and currently outweighs the Israeli death toll. Once again your one sided analysis is showing through.

in your article you brought- you forgot to mantion very other important things-
Arafat estublished a horrible education system, teaching to hate, wash minds the arabs under his control. please search on that. that is more important than all the rest. and he succeeded. the arabs in israel are much more antisemites, and anti israelis, and i do seperate that, nd they are more of both of them, due to therie education system, which israel ignored, wanting not to control them.

I agree regarding the education system, indoctrination of youth, but one could also say the same of some aspects of Israeli education. As for the hate, each side suffers this – it is understandable why, each has suffered at the hands of the other.

mein kampf is the 4th popular book in ramallah , 2006 [1].
Abu Mazen, their president, and Arafat, have allowed wide spreading of those books among horrible pictures and songs from their TV wshbrins the palestinian arabs in israel, no other word.

And Baruch Goldstein’s grave is considered a sacred site by some fanatical right-wing Zionists, it just proves that there are people who follow points of view and bigotry based on the conflict against their hated foe. So I am not surprised that a book written by a fellow who hated Jews is a popular book in a population that suffers collective punishments at the hands of a Jewish state.

Hint: you might want to remove the Wiki Note links when copy & pasting.

thats the price of giving a state to the PLO inside israel. Israel have brought in 1993 the PLO members from Tunis, to make peace with, and gave to the PLO the control over all the arabs in the west bank and gaza strip. this is the peace agreement israel created.- its not a peace agreement, its a war agreement. except for demographic reasons, which i think its not the right solution even to this, its a war agreement in all the manners.

I really don’t follow you here. Israel gave the PLO a state? But the agreement was a war agreement?

You have mentioned “demographic reasons” a number of times, thus I must assume you pursue a method of thinking towards the Jewish demographic – which would explain your reliance upon unbalanced data that is positive towards Israel and negative towards Palestine.

thank you tailz for the source though.

Your welcome.

[kyleb]

On the subject of Palestinian textbooks:

Reports on Palestinian kids’ hatred grossly exaggerated
Friday, February 6, 2004 | by len traubman | opinions

"Where do persistent reports of incitement in Palestinian textbooks come from?" asks Nathan Brown, a Jewish professor of political science at George Washington University.

"Virtually all can be traced back to the work of a single organization, the 'Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace,'" founded by Israeli Itamar Marcus. Those involved "rely on misleading and tendentious reports to support their claim of incitement," writes Brown, in a 2001 report delivered at Israel's Adam Institute for Democracy and Peace.

The charges of Marcus are often grossly exaggerated. As with most reporting, he passes on some useful truths — albeit with a one-sided approach.

His work is anecdotal — hardly social science — based on the statements of a few people, including small children. Quoting selectively is a good way to accuse and stereotype an entire people but not in seriously analyzing a situation.
...

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/216 ... aggerated/

Some information on Israel textbooks is mentioned later in the article too.

[LehmanB]

Hint: you might want to remove the Wiki Note links when copy & pasting.

i didnt copied from wikipedia. but okay .

no, you cant compare the israeli education system to the Palestinian's. its ground and sky.
nor the media. there arent playlists in israeli channels to kill arabs. when i claim the palestinian self rejime israel gave- is preper to war against the jews, and used his self autonomy for nothing less than as a base to eradicate the rest of the jewish state- i mean it.

[Bosnjak]

Line 1947 what is the sole lawfull line. Payings to Palestinians because this was their land (the Jews were at the founding only 1/3 of the Population in the borders of 1947), the Palestinians have nothing to do that the Romans kicked the Jews out 2000 Years ago.

I doubt that Israel would accept this, their history was allways everything or nothing, what lead several times to the destruction of their state.


Can Jews live in peace? This could be historically doubted.

[LehmanB]

what "palestinians" are?
arabs who set in a small part of the arab empire. arabs are independent. look at the globe.

[LehmanB]

the israelis are the one who agreed on UN decision in 1947 to give in small part of the land the jewish state.
the arabs wanted all - and open the 1948, and lost.
it is not true what you are saying on jewish history.
for 600 years- david king till babilon exile, jews lived in peace, relate to what peace was at that time.
the romans and the asheriyans horrors to other nations too, yet the jews are the only who survived as a whole, - nation culture and religion, i dont recognize where all the ancient "scilence" nations are today?
all or nothing is a slogan. jews are those who chose the peace agreement in 1993- and the PLO open an education system washbrain the arabs to hate israel. i fear the arabs in the part of their empire- zion, are prepered to total war. its not just jewish problematic. look what this same nation is doing to darfur. there is no difference. this whole region is massed up; easy to blaim jews doesnt make peace with them.

[Bosnjak]

What happened first, your ethnic cleansing or the inteferences of the neighbouring arab States?

Lets look what a Israeli Historian says:

After 5.00 min comes he to the point:

[Bosnjak]

You know what Arabs are? One of the Tribe who spoke aramaic The mothertongue of Semitic Peoples (there wer only dialects) from the 4 th Centuries those peoples (except Jews) started to speak more Arabic Dialect and mixed with each other, and with the Islamisation they became one Arab Nation, with different origins, the current Palestinians should be descendants of Arab-Semits and Philistrians




830s BC.


The Philistines settled "Pelesheth" (פְּלֶשֶׁת, Standard Hebrew /pəléšet/ or /pəlášet/, Tiberian Hebrew /pəléšeṯ/ or /Pəlāšeṯ/) along the eastern Mediterranean coast at about the time when the Israelites settled in the Judean highlands. Biblical references to Philistines living in the area before this, at the time of Abraham or Isaac (e.g. Gen. 21:32-34), are generally regarded by modern scholars to be anachronisms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines



The Jewish script goes back to Phonecians (also Semits) who lived in Lebanon, and founded further colonies int the southern mediteran sea, they were founders of Carthago.




The earliest Aramaic alphabet was based on the Phoenician script. In time, Aramaic developed its distinctive 'square' style. The ancient Israelites and other peoples of Canaan adopted this alphabet for writing their own languages. Thus, it is better known as the Hebrew alphabet today.[/quote]

The Arabs are descendants of Nabeteans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic

[Bosnjak]

What is about the claims that Jews stayed in managed to stay in Galilea until the Islamisation?