[Gravy]

Troops are to pull out of Gaza immediately. Another unilateral Israeli ceasefire came into effect today or yesterday. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts and who violates it this time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836660.stm

[Muslim]

If the border crossings won't be opened, the rockets won't stop.

Hopefully they will open them; putting an end to all that madness.

[seamen]

I hope the border crossings will open under few conditions:
1) Hamas wont shoot any rockets and will force all other terror organizations to do so as well.
2) Israel can be sure no weapons are smuggled through the borders
3) The kidnapped soldier is returned to Israel (in exchange for prisoners)
At the same time I hope Egypt will start doing something against the smuggling tunnels

Muslim, can you please change your avatar? I allways end up spitting my computer screen (that is Haled Mashaal if I am not very very mistaken)

[Tailz]

I hope the border crossings will open under few conditions:
1) Hamas wont shoot any rockets and will force all other terror organizations to do so as well.

Didn't Hamas propose a ceasefire something like this a little while ago? Israel kept the borders closed and thus the rockets started flying again and thus we ended up here.... Now Israel is proposing a ceasefire? Oh the irony.

2) Israel can be sure no weapons are smuggled through the borders
3) The kidnapped soldier is returned to Israel (in exchange for prisoners)
At the same time I hope Egypt will start doing something against the smuggling tunnels

Why so many extra conditions? Work on stopping Israel and the militants from shooting at each other first.

[SouthBeirut]

1) Hamas wont shoot any rockets and will force all other terror organizations to do so as well.

Hamas always agreed on that, even before this offensive.

2) Israel can be sure no weapons are smuggled through the borders

Yeah, only if you make sure no weapons or air-crafts are sold to Israel by the US.

3) The kidnapped soldier is returned to Israel (in exchange for prisoners)

This was always a Hamas condition. We don't have any pleasure feeding or cleaning his cell.

At the same time I hope Egypt will start doing something against the smuggling tunnels

Only if the UN start doing something against the exagerated Israeli military power.

Muslim, can you please change your avatar? I allways end up spitting my computer screen (that is Haled Mashaal if I am not very very mistaken)

Please, feel for us. You only see him on this forum. We have to see Tzipi, Barak, and Ashkenazi's face everyday on the damn TV. Imagine the collection of spit we have in our houses. My father shot our TV with his AK47 these days when Livni was talking about "protecting" the Israeli people. But nothing bad, we replaced that old one for a 42' Plasma TV.

[Dilaudid King]

I hope they all can abide by this to live in harmony on the gaza strip. If not, then whoever break these rules cannot live in harmony in the gaza strip. These rules will be used as the supreme against all to determine/justify all wrongdoing from now on. That also means they will be judged by this so that all criminals are punished by the laws of the land, and to ensure protection over the Gaza strip.

[seamen]

Didn't Hamas propose a ceasefire something like this a little while ago? Israel kept the borders closed and thus the rockets started flying again and thus we ended up here.... Now Israel is proposing a ceasefire? Oh the irony

Not fully true. Israel opend the borders but the rocket launches never stopped completly. Yes there was a big decreas and it may have not been Hamas who was firing. Anyway its about that time when Israel decided to close some borders and after that to close all borders

Yeah, only if you make sure no weapons or air-crafts are sold to Israel by the US

You see, Hamas is in no position to start rough negotiations. Either accept the terms set or starve to death. Whatever comes first. And why should anyone make sure no weapons or air-crafts are sold to Israel by the US?

This was always a Hamas condition

Yeah, only their demands were far higher than what should be.

Only if the UN start doing something against the exagerated Israeli military power.

1)They wont
2) Funny, out of Israel and Hamas which one is a terror organization? And which one shouldnt get smuggled weapons?

My father shot our TV with his AK47 these days when Livni was talking about "protecting" the Israeli people. But nothing bad, we replaced that old one for a 42' Plasma TV.

Good for you. Remeber to hide the bullets from now on, or there will probably be nothing left in your house when Israel will attck Iran in order to protect the Israeli people

[sploop!]

You see, Hamas is in no position to start rough negotiations. Either accept the terms set or starve to death.

Collective Punishment is outlawed under the Geneva Convention. Not that Israel cares, or anything.

[Dilaudid King]

Ra defeated they dragon of death which Israel sent down on gaza/palestine. Ra carried the dragon of death away from humanity out into the heavens where it continues to fight him every night, but the death dragon never wins- the death dragon is the sworn enemy of Ra in the heavens and is never strong enough to ever stand a chance. Mentu helps Ra and Amun keep evil dragon of death from coming back to humanity. the evil death dragon is like a 2 headed, long-necked black dragon with a green humanized thorax and human legs, with a white star of david on his chest.

[seamen]

Collective Punishment is outlawed under the Geneva Convention

Then I guess Hamas shouldnt launch rockets at Israeli civilians

Not that Israel cares, or anything

Unfortunatly, they care too much

[sploop!]

^^ Ooh - I think I've seen that one! Is the answer: 'Lord Borax'?

^ Unfortunately the behaviour of 'the other side' does not mean that Israel can just ignore the convention as it chooses...

[Dilaudid King]

Ooh - I think I've seen that one! Is the answer: 'Lord Borax'?

why hell no. you obviously don't know anything. This is real.

[sploop!]

OK - I clearly got it a bit mixed up. Apologies.

[SouthBeirut]

You see, Hamas is in no position to start rough negotiations. Either accept the terms set or starve to death. Whatever comes first. And why should anyone make sure no weapons or air-crafts are sold to Israel by the US?

That's not right. Israel's public opinion pressed the government for a fast cease-fire, as the rockets will keep on falling on Israel in case this doesn't happen. There's no such thing as accept or die. Israel is in no way in control of the situation.

Yeah, only their demands were far higher than what should be.

Prisoners exchange have always been like that with Israel. You give us hundreds, and we give you 1 or 2. Like the 2004 exchange with Hezbollah and the recent 2008 where our Samir Kuntar got released.

1)They wont
2) Funny, out of Israel and Hamas which one is a terror organization? And which one shouldnt get smuggled weapons?

1) That's the point.
2) Israel is a terror organization.

Good for you. Remeber to hide the bullets from now on, or there will probably be nothing left in your house when Israel will attck Iran in order to protect the Israeli people.

Do you really think Israel can handle a counter-attack from Iran and it's allies ? Your imagination surprises me.

[Sephardi]

Kuntar, it is always 10 Hizbollah soldiers for 1 or 2 dead bodies of Israeli soldiers. It's really stupid that Israel does that and I want them to put a stop to it. And they need to stop putting these guys in prisons. Just capture and execute them. No need feeding them and giving them a Bachelor's Degree in prison. That's a waste of tax money. Clueless liberals, quick execution is better.

[sword_or_quill]

And they need to stop putting these guys in prisons. Just capture and execute them. No need feeding them and giving them a Bachelor's Degree in prison. That's a waste of tax money. Clueless liberals, quick execution is better.

Sephardi, I have a "better" idea:
Before executing them, round them up in camps, and use them as slave labour for a couple of years.
Then, when you've gathered enough prisoners, start executing them. If they're too many just use an efficient method of executing large numbers at the same time.
Oh, dont forget to starve them as you so humanely point out...
To make the whole thing cheaper, confiscate anything of value eg. gold teeth and/or jewellery even hair would do nicely.

That would be a "great (final) solution".

Remember that these individuals are imprisoned without a trial ad modum Guantanamo. In that context i fully understand why Hamas or Hizbollah are resorting to these tactics.

Sadly the phrase "Inter Arma Silent Leges" (In times of war, the law falls silent) seems to apply for our so-called democracies...

[Tailz]

Not fully true.

Haha, I love that answer... not fully true. Your a funny fellow.

Israel opend the borders but the rocket launches never stopped completly. Yes there was a big decreas and it may have not been Hamas who was firing. Anyway its about that time when Israel decided to close some borders and after that to close all borders

The whole condition of Hamas not launching rockets was Israel opening the border crossings and permitting the smooth flow of traffic and supplies - Israel didn't do this - yeah they opened them for a few hours, but thats not the access Hamas signed up to the ceasefire agreement for, and the Israeli's knew this - so Hamas launched rockets. Israel strangled off energy supplies and stopped UN food aid crossing the border - thus more rockets in response. Until ultimately the IDF invaded Gaza and here we are with Israel now offering the same ceasefire agreement Hamas offered them in the beginning, and I would not be amazed if Hamas tells Israel to shove its ceasefire up its ass as Israel has shown (again) that it will not honor any agreement.

These ceasefire agreements are not agreements of convenience that Israel or Hamas can break and then renew when they feel like it. This time around, Israel screwed up the ceasefire by creating the energy and supply crisis within Gaza, which shows in obvious terms they were not holding up their end of the agreement to open the border crossings.

As for locking off all borders, Israel already does that periodically.

i've no problem with Israel totally locking off the borders into Israel, it is any sovereign states right to do so. But then to also totally block-aid Gaza from the sea and air and have an agreement with Egypt to also block off Gaza's Egyptian border - is unjust and turns the whole of Gaza into a concentration camp. So no wonder the likes of Hamas are launching rockets at Israel, if I was in their place, I'd be launching rockets too. The people of Gaza should be able to trade without Israeli interference with Egypt and whoever wishes to trade by sea if Israel wants to lock off its own border access with Gaza.

Israel will never find peaceful relations with these people as long as it keeps antagonizing them.

Kuntar, it is always 10 Hizbollah soldiers for 1 or 2 dead bodies of Israeli soldiers. It's really stupid that Israel does that and I want them to put a stop to it. And they need to stop putting these guys in prisons. Just capture and execute them. No need feeding them and giving them a Bachelor's Degree in prison. That's a waste of tax money. Clueless liberals, quick execution is better.

Oh great, give them another reason to fight to the death, good thinking Einstein.

[seamen]

but thats not the access Hamas signed up to the ceasefire agreement for

And you say I'm a funny fellow.

But then to also totally block-aid Gaza from the sea and air

That was after the started shooting rockets.

Anyway, you seem to say "Israel should let the Palestinians trade whatever they want with whoever they wont". Hell no, 10 dead soldiers is bad enough, and I give up the chace to rise this number, specially considering the fact that I will be fighting the next war.

Oh great, give them another reason to fight to the death, good thinking Einstein

Which means they already fight to death .
In that case I would rather give them a reason not to fight at all

No need feeding them and giving them a Bachelor's Degree in prison. That's a waste of tax money. Clueless liberals, quick execution is better

That is how it was for last couple of thounds of years

Your a funny fellow

I am glad that I amuse you.

[Sephardi]

Sephardi, I have a "better" idea:
Before executing them, round them up in camps, and use them as slave labour for a couple of years.
Then, when you've gathered enough prisoners, start executing them. If they're too many just use an efficient method of executing large numbers at the same time.
Oh, dont forget to starve them as you so humanely point out...
To make the whole thing cheaper, confiscate anything of value eg. gold teeth and/or jewellery even hair would do nicely.

That would be a "great (final) solution".

Remember that these individuals are imprisoned without a trial ad modum Guantanamo. In that context i fully understand why Hamas or Hizbollah are resorting to these tactics.

Sadly the phrase "Inter Arma Silent Leges" (In times of war, the law falls silent) seems to apply for our so-called democracies...

Are you kidding me? What do you do to people who have killed your own people in your country? Are you really kidding me? You seem to forget that a Death Penalty actually works. They've got it in some US states, it's time Israel adopts a Death Penalty. Yea, I know, it can be used against terrorists when we show them that the country their attacking doesn't even have a Death Penalty, but is it really worth it? You know that guy from Hizbollah who killed that 4-year old girl in front of her parents and got traded along with other Hizbollah soldiers for 2 dead bodies of IDF soldiers? He got imprisoned under the Israeli legal system and got life in prison when they caught him. He bashed a 4-year old girls head in a rock in front of her parents. Are you kidding me? America hanged Saddam Hussein. America wants to hang Osama Bin Laden. Why didn't that guy get hanged?

I wonder what lawyers would protect the Guantanamo Bay imprisoned terrorists when they close it down.

A war is a war. You dont give Saddam Hussein life - You hang him. Remember that.

[timel]

Actually, the last cease fire agreement between Hamas and israel was an ORAL one. It is completely ridiculous! This is why I stated in other threads that Egypt shouldn't be the one in helping negotiations of a truce\ peace agreement between israel and Hamas.

Fighting won't solve anything. Israel neither Hamas haven't won anything out the latest conflicts.
There is a need of serious negotiations for a proper territory and sovereignty to Palestinians (ground, air and sea). After that if Israel than wishes to closes it's borders. It's quite fine.


Sephardi, there is no needs to backtrack to middle age in terms of death penalty and it is to Lebanon to judge this crimes, and as long as Palestinians will struggle to survive, Hezbollah will have a reason for it's own existence, it will lower Lebanese strength and grow hatred for Jews by the same means. Your nation killed over 300 kids in less three weeks, this is a crime, not counting the future terrorist you did create by killing their siblings. This whole conflicts should be now solve by diplomacy and nothing else. Hamas should come to recognize israel and so Israel should recognize Palestinian as a nation.