[Oxymoron]

When it comes to Israel and Palestine passions run hot, with niether side willing to understand the other. I suggest an exercise in mutual understanding, and so for this thread please lay down you position and take a tunr defending the other side. Please no trolling and no sarcasitic stuff nor try defending your real position (If I were a Israeli I would leave, if I was a palestinian I would move to Jordan etc etc.

Please lets try to keep this civil.

Since it was my intial idea and I dont want to guide it in a particular direction, I will leave the first blood to someone else.

[Dave]

The Crusades were an act of aggression against a people who had been living there for several hundred years at that time, and who mostly respected the rights of Christian pilgrims. Today it has been over 7 centuries since the Holy Land was lost to the Mohammedans, and now the Jews have reestablished their homeland in the region. It would be unfair and very harmful for Christendom to reestablish itself politically in the Levant, and thus a new Crusade cannot be justified.

How was that?

[Dr House]

How was that?

Completely irrelevant, of course.

[MVictorP]

Sarcasm-free comment:

Israel should have a land to call its own in the levant, as it is a way to recognize its undeniable, historic Jewish population, whose culture and ways varies too much from Arabic/Muslim culture to simply be a part of them. They need their own nation to fully grow to their full potential; I don't believe that it is necessarly racist to do so - some degree of nationalism just couldn't hurt.

(Ooof, that almost hurt.)

[Oxymoron]

Israel should have a land to call its own in the levant, as it is a way to recognize its undeniable, historic Jewish population, whose culture and ways varies too much from Arabic/Muslim culture to simply be a part of them. They need their own nation to fully grow to their full potential; I don't believe that it is necessarly racist to do so - some degree of nationalism just couldn't hurt.

Ethinic cleansing by Jews of a populated area just to create your own Nationalist state, after the events of WW2 seems rather odd. Have not the Jews learned the lessons of Germany, and that proud people whos land is taken will fight tooth and nail (Unless they are French) to gain it back. Yes Israel has achieved much, but its achievement was made on the backs of Arabs. I understand that presently with the way things are that Israel cannot be wished away, but they must at least accept responsibility for past transgressions and accept a real compromise for peace. Which would include Jerusalem, Right of return, reparation payments, return to 1947 borders, allowing a Palestinian armed force, and eliminating its Nuclear stockpile. In return we will accept this fabricated state, and try to live along side them in a peace with honor.

[Paradigm]

Israel and Palestine are irrelevant to American interests. We should let them kill each other off, or better yet, nuke both of them so we don't have to bother ourselves with their petty disputes anymore. Fuck the Jews and the Arabs right in the ear. They're all sub-human anyway.

How's that?

[Sephardi]

I don't even understand what you are trying to do here.
You want me to pretend I am a Palestinian or something?

"The Jews should get back Jerusalem and places like Hebron because it is their "Mecca and Medina", and I would feel bad if somebody would want to split Mecca or take Medina in a war, so I'm just going to blend into Israeli society and become a lawyer".
How's that?

[Oxymoron]

"The Jews should get back Jerusalem and places like Hebron because it is their "Mecca and Medina", and I would feel bad if somebody would want to split Mecca or take Medina in a war, so I'm just going to blend into Israeli society and become a lawyer".
How's that?

Not very convincing Sephy.

I don't even understand what you are trying to do here.

I am trying to improve dialouge between PoFoites. We are divided so severly by the conflict that it results in lack of communication, and personal animosity. So try to defend the other side, and perhaps it will enlighten you further about your own opinion.

[Dr House]

Israel and Palestine are irrelevant to American interests. We should let them kill each other off, or better yet, nuke both of them so we don't have to bother ourselves with their petty disputes anymore. Fuck the Jews and the Arabs right in the ear. They're all sub-human anyway.

How's that?

Confusing. What's your actual position on the matter?

[Paradigm]

Confusing. What's your actual position on the matter?

I support a two-state solution and long-term peace. I figured the opposite of that would be a no-state solution.

[Oxymoron]

I figured the opposite of that would be a no-state solution.

A Non State solution would be having Ron Paul run the Knesset.

[MVictorP]

Oxymoron is growing up to be quite a quality poster.

Good thread, Oxy.

[Sephardi]

If I was a Palestinian, I would probably try to get a good job instead of blowing myself up in the town square, because life under Israel is better than no life at all. I might want to move to Jordan, but it's more of an absolute rule society than Israel, and I would rather enjoy the Democracy of Israel and join a Palestinian or Arab Nationalist Party.

[Nets]

Sephardi, you completely missed the point of the thread.

[Paradigm]

Sephardi, you completely missed the point of the thread.

I don't think he's capable of understanding the point of the thread. It's a good exercise in identifying those who are incapable of considering other points of view. I would expect the same from Qatz or sploop!

[muzioler5]

Im moderately new here, but I consider myself a moderate defender of Israel on most occasions.

Many of the Palestinians have good points regarding settlers and the final status of Jerusalem. In many areas, the settlers have no historic reasons to be there other than Israeli fears of outdated security issues. Similarly, with new Jewish settlements in and around East Jerusalem there are many reasons why Palestinians ought to be fearful about encroaching Israelis. Similarly, the Jews ought to recognize the legitimate claim that the Palestinians have to the Temple mount and no longer worry about red calves and various other doomsday wishes. There are many religious elements in Israel that are as bad, if not worse, than many Muslim ones in Palestine.

Phew, maybe I'll try more later. While I certainly don't fully agree with what I just wrote, there is a part of me that believes it.

[Tailz]

This is so not fair, I can only participate by perpetuating historical inaccuracies as I throw mud at both the Israeli’s and Palestinians.

Oh well here goes…

The land of Palestine belongs to the Jews are reparation and compensation for the horror of the holocaust and because no one was here…. No wait… I can’t do this….

OK, I fail!

[MVictorP]

Here is another attempt:

Since the start, the Arab reaction to Israel has been wrong... even if they would have won the war. Arabs should have placed the focus on obtaining compensations based on the UN standarts, and offer them to these Palestinians who didn't want to live in a Judeocracy.

A Ghandi-like approach, peppered by a solid media campaign, would have been the best resistance for the Arabs. They sure don't win admiration and support by blundering around, commiting crimes, no matter how good their cause is.

[War Angel]

Jews are thieves - always have been, always will be. They used to steal from Christians, and are now stealing land from the indigenous Arab population of Palestine. Indeed, Jews are locust, vermin, a plague upon this world, and should be done with as soon as possible. The proud Palestinian people should be supported, because they are currently spearheading the struggle against the Jews' plans for domination.

The Palestinians are a righteous people, fighting the good fight against a mechanised demon, and must establish a free national entity. The Zionist fiends are commiting atrocities on a scale unseen before in history (of-course, the fable known as 'the Holocaust' did not happen), murdering children and devouring their corpses for their Kabalistic rituals.

There are no words in Elven, Dwarvish or Human tongues to describe the sheer evil that is The Jew, an animal so vile, so hideous, so destructive, that the sheer mention of its name is enough to cause children aged six to ten to lose sleep for weeks. With their hoarded blood-money, they have taken land from the Arabs who have been living here for millions of years, from before the counting of time with absolutely no proof of this happening at all. The filthy Zionist rats are sucking more blood from the Americans daily, to wage their war of ethnic cleansing and genocide against innocent Hamas personnel, who are defending Palestinian babies by strapping explosives to them (explosives are very good amulets against The Evil Jewish Eye) and hiding them deep within rocket bunkers.

Praise be to Allah! Praise be to God of Fake Liberalism and Thinly Veiled Antisemitism!


(How was that? It felt kind of good, in a sexy masochistic sort of way. )

[ThereBeDragons]

Hamas is a terrorist organization that has shown its willingness to deploy suicide bombings directly against civilians in the contravention of peace, refuses to acknowledge even the possibility of peace with the state of Israel, and constantly imperils and kills our civilians through rocket attacks in the gravest violation of human rights. In this light, the only acceptable action is military - the doctrine of "proportional response," though well-intentioned, merely suggests that the correct course of action is for Hamas and Israel to lob inaccurate rockets at each other until the end of time. Those who start wars are responsible for whatever may follow, and the dense population of Gaza renders it impossible to take military action without inflicting serious collateral damage. This fact, however, does and should not bind Israel's ability to take such military action. Despite the regrettable loss of life among Palestinian civilians, it is recognized that nations have the right to self-defense even when an alternative, such as immediate surrender, would result in far less death, and it is for this reason that military action against those using human shields - though it may be militarily necessary to Israel's adversaries - is justified. The largest obstacle to peace in the area is Hamas, not Israel - Israel has long been willing to accept "Land for Peace," and has demonstrated this many times in the years of its existence. It is Hamas which refuses to entertain even the possibility.

Fun fact: The following, and many other characterizations of the opposition, are not actually what this thread was intended for. Presumably a honest effort should be made; otherwise, I could have gone for:

Palestinians should be exterminated as quickly, efficiently, and as far from international sight as is humanly possible.

It minorly misses the point.