219,464 Palestinians treated in Israel hospitals in 2012 - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

Moderator: PoFo Middle-East Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#14721403
abu afak wrote:Trite Misconceptions.

Unlike Australia or America, which are not questioned nearly as much as Israel...

The reason America or Australia are not questioned as much as Israel, is because the colonial enterprise occurred a good many generations ago, while the Israeli Palestinian conflict is happening here and now.

But it must be added, the ugly past of colonialism is a horrible stain on the history of both Australia and America that even today, new generations are trying to make amends for it. Australia has been itself struggling with how to undo many of the injustices of the past, America is doing so as well for native american indians.

abu afak wrote:1. Jews have/had a History in the land.

So have the Palestinans, Jews have never lived exclusively in that region, it has been populated by many peoples over the generations. All peoples of the region have as much a right to live there in peace and security as do the Jews.

abu afak wrote:2. Jews had a Continuous Presence in that land, if small at times.

Indeed, there is a shared collective history of Jewish habitation in that geographic region. But that shared history was exploited by people who had been for many generations, living outside that region. Early Zionism was a foreign ethno-religious nationist movement held by Jewish immergrants to Palestine. Even local Jewish groups resisted the introduction of Zionism into Palestine, citing it as a destabilising factor in relations between the native Jewish and Arabian inhabitants.

abu afak wrote:2a. At one point, app 1625, Jews were again 1/4 of the population before yet another expulsion.

And this means what to the discussion? There have been countless conflicts in the region that depopulated the area. This does not grant one group or another priority over the area.

abu afak wrote:3. Jews were not given all of the Mandate, nor even Lesser Palestine, but app Half of it.

Actually no one was given anything. There were plans to partition the land mass, but the Zionists proclaimed their state externally from the UN. probably because it was looking like the UN vote may not end up having the outcome the Zionists wanted as many of the original backers were backing away from the deal because of the deteriorating situation in Palestine in the run up to the British Withdrawal.

The whole thing turned into a grandest when the Arab forces stumbled into attack Israel, everyone was trying to grab whatever they could. The plight of the Palestinians was just a convenient excuse for everyone (Zionists, Arab States, etc).

abu afak wrote:Were American Indians or Aborigines offered HALF of America/Australia/Canada etc?

No, but they did become citizens of an inclusive state.

abu afak wrote:4. Half of that Half was the sparse and thought-useless Negev Desert.
5. The Whole Ottoman Break-up could similarly be construed as illegitimate ('Jordan', 'Iraq', 'Lebanon', etc)

Yes and no, the directive was to foster local natioaln independence movements towards eventual independence followed by the withdrawl of superpower forces. Thus the states that were created. But the whole creation of new states was a "great game" in of itself, everyone had their own selfish self interest going on.

abu afak wrote:6. The partition plan entailed NOT a single Arab being moved; just a change of sovereigns for a small minority. A minority that would finally get to vote, Unlike under all previous sovereigns. As well as getting (but rejecting) a near 100% Arab Muslim state they refused.

Why expect the Palestinians to accept what Israel would not accept itself? Would Israel accept giving half its territory over to returning Cannanities if boat loads of them started to show up on the beach looking to return to their ancient homeland? Of course the answer would be no, so why the shock and horror that the Palestinians said no?

abu afak wrote:No one offered the Kurds (a TRUE people) anything of 'Iraq'.
7. The plan was approved/voted on by a world body.. UN.. Unlike the USA or Australia.

Apples and oranges, time periods count. The UN did not exist when the Americas or New Holland were being claimed by old world empires.
Left vs right, masculine vs feminine

Glad you are so empathetic and self-critical and […]

The more time passes, the more instances of haras[…]

It turns out it was all a complete lie with no bas[…]

I am not claiming that there are zero genetic dif[…]