[Heinie]

Scholars in Israel have ordered the removal of their names from a school textbook because of the emphasis on Zionist nationalism. Regarding the high school civics textbook, "It’s a book for all the students of Israel — for secular and religious, for Arabs and Druze," said copy editor Yehuda Yaari. "And this book does not represent an approach that matches all the students."
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-educators-battle-government-over-textbook-content/
Catch them young and they will be more effective in maintaining an apartheid system.

[Pongo]

You mean Israel should get suicide like Sweden and Germany?

[Fasces]

A country shouldn't teach its youth that it has the right to exist?

[Heinie]

A country shouldn't teach its youth that it has the right to exist?

South African white children were never in any doubt of the right of its racist country to exist. Their parents and Apartheid government saw to that.
But it's gone now. How did that happen?

[layman]

The ANC movement never said they wanted to push the whites into the sea.

In fact this is key I think. While some of the more radical black nationalists movements did say similar things, the popular movement did not. In palestine it is not the same. They have a culture based on jew hating. The entire region does and any leadership has to pander to it.

[Fasces]

South African white children were never in any doubt of the right of its racist country to exist. Their parents and Apartheid government saw to that.
But it's gone now. How did that happen?

They got weak. It seems that Israel has no intention of doing that.

Not that Israel is anything remotely approaching an apartheid state, as the millions of Israeli Arabs will attest too.

[Heinie]

They got weak. It seems that Israel has no intention of doing that.

Rather the United States and European countries (with the exception of England) identified Apartheid as racist evil and imposed sanctions on the Bruderbond.

Not that Israel is anything remotely approaching an apartheid state, as the millions of Israeli Arabs will attest too.

You sound like someone who has actually met a Palestinian under occupation.

[Political Interest]

South African white children were never in any doubt of the right of its racist country to exist. Their parents and Apartheid government saw to that.
But it's gone now. How did that happen?

The apartheid regime was far more humane than the Israelis.

At least they didn't regularly fire bomb the blacks.

[Heinie]

The apartheid regime was far more humane than the Israelis.
At least they didn't regularly fire bomb the blacks.

Despite the similar racism, I grant you that even the South Africans never committed crimes against humanity on the scale of their close allies, the Israelis.

[skinster]

This is a pretty good video by an Israeli Professor who talks about what Israeli children get in their textbooks, as far as indoctrination against Palestinians goes.
[youtube]pWKPRC-_oSg[/youtube]

[Heinie]

This is a pretty good video by an Israeli Professor who talks about what Israeli children get in their textbooks, as far as indoctrination against Palestinians goes.

My goodness! skinster, Nurit Peled-Elhanan has given a brilliant exposé of the Zionist propaganda that permeates Israeli textbooks. Her students are lucky to have her as a teacher. When I opened this topic, I had no idea how pervasive was the racism in Israeli schoolbooks, believing I was writing about a single incident rather than a government norm. I learned a lot from her. Thanks for posting it.

[danholo]

Ah, by 'learning' you mean reinforcing your belief paradigm?

It is an interesting video but I'll take her expertise with a grain of salt. She is obviously politically and ideologically fueled herself based on her rhetoric.

It is common for text books of any country to follow an official curriculum set out by the state. I would assume Israel is made to look as the hero while the Arabs as the enemy. It is similar in Finland with regards to Russia. Fortunately some crimes are educated about, like Dear Yassin.

Fortunately none of my good Israeli friends have been affected this deeply.

[skinster]

It is an interesting video but I'll take her expertise with a grain of salt. She is obviously politically and ideologically fueled herself based on her rhetoric.

How so?

She comes from a family of famous and powerful Zionists. Her father was a general in the 1967 "war". She lost her daughter to a Palestinian attack where she accepted that their terrorism was a response to Israel's brutal policy. Her brother speaks about some of that stuff here:
[youtube]AIORBJxBSbI[/youtube]

[Heisenberg]

Fighting for the moral high ground in the Arab-Israeli conflict is absolutely pointless. The main difference between the two sides seems to be that Israel has better weaponry. After all, most of the pro-"Palestine" whining is about how difficult it is for Hamas to kill as many Jews as they'd like to, and why this means that Israel is bad for being able to kill the people they would like to.

Let's not pretend that if the situation was flipped, and Hamas and Fatah were in charge, "Palestine" would be a haven of tolerance and liberal democracy.

Rather the United States and European countries (with the exception of England) identified Apartheid as racist evil and imposed sanctions on the Bruderbond.

Lol, no. The cold war ended, an the west didn't need South Africa as a bulwark against communism any more. It was easier to go with the flow and let the ANC take power. That's what happened in the real world, rather than the bedrooms of teenage slacktivists. In case you haven't noticed, South Africa was not, and is not, the only example of "racist evil" that has been propped up by larger powers.

[danholo]

How so?

She comes from a family of famous and powerful Zionists. Her father was a general in the 1967 "war". She lost her daughter to a Palestinian attack where she accepted that their terrorism was a response to Israel's brutal policy. Her brother speaks about some of that stuff here:
[youtube]AIORBJxBSbI[/youtube]

I don't disagree that the situation isn't of Israel's own doing. Israel has managed to delve deep into a chasm of mistrust and hate towards its neighbors since it was incepted.

I am completely convinced that the violence both Israelis and Palestinians face is a result of a recipe which both parties have managed to create and their leadership are to blame for not doing enough to rectify this. This is something you will disagree with of course because you are convinced that one is the victim and the other the aggressor.


However, posting more info about his brother strengthens my argument. There are political and ideological issues at play. I know enough Israelis who do not ascribe to this supposed indoctrination to take her research with a grain of salt. Checking her Facebook feed, I would not get the impression she was an accomplished academic.

Fighting for the moral high ground in the Arab-Israeli conflict is absolutely pointless. The main difference between the two sides seems to be that Israel has better weaponry. After all, most of the pro-"Palestine" whining is about how difficult it is for Hamas to kill as many Jews as they'd like to, and why this means that Israel is bad for being able to kill the people they would like to.

I agree that it is a pointless endeavor. I will attempt to be more even handed from here on out as it coincides with my opinions in general. I don't find it helpful to point out the 'evil' of the other as is the norm. Both are rotten but other has more power at the moment. Power which I find quite shallow, in the end. It has never managed to solve the core issues. Both have enough going for them to accomplish a promising future - together.

[noemon]

Let's not pretend that if the situation was flipped, and Hamas and Fatah were in charge, "Palestine" would be a haven of tolerance and liberal democracy.

Why do we need to pretend by assuming an alternative scenario and then imagining its content, usually according to prejudice?
Is that so we pretend that Israeli irredentist indoctrination is ok? why is that important? I do not feel like having my imagination ex(er)cised in order to construe a scenario where Israel is normal. If it were shown that the British showed Ireland as an empty lot in the map, would they not be totally ridiculed & scorned?

Checking her Facebook feed, I would not get the impression she was an accomplished academic.

Is there anything from her video that you can show to be false? Because that is the only thing we care about and not the character assassination attempts based on her facebook feed. What do you think people assume when you only argue against the people and not against their arguments? That you are an "even-handed" zionist?

[danholo]

Well, I'm in an unfair position aren't I? Sure, I could present another viewpoint but it's not directly related to her book but a wider study which examined both Israeli and Palestinian textbooks in regard to their depiction of the 'other'.

The author of the article gives his own observation which is as valuable as the Professors considering both are products of the same system:

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-pal ... ok-fiasco/

Also, there is a rebuttal available regarding Peled-elhanan's previous work:

http://www.impact-se.org/docs/reactions ... ed2006.pdf

In my defense, considering that the source material was never presented, all I can say is that any person should take arguments with a grain of salt. On the other hand, you are right, I have no counter arguments of my own as I don't have the material to make ones.

[noemon]

Sure, I could present another viewpoint:

That is not another viewpoint on the racist indoctrination of Israeli textbooks. This is saying don't look at me look at someone else, but this thread is about Israeli textbooks, if you want to make a thread about Palestinian textbooks you can make another thread about it and if a Palestinian or Arab apologist comes in and claims for racism to be justified because of the Israeli textbooks then we will deal with him accordingly. At least I will. The question is which kind of person do you want to be? The one that points the finger to the scapegoat or the one that leads by example?

[danholo]

It doesn't matter what I want to be but I think you are being unnecessarily aggressive towards me - I have no denied a certain type of indoctrination at all. And of course, you are correct, the opposing viewpoint was not relevant but it is another that gives more weight and balance to her obviously unbalanced material.

However, I also presented an argument about Peled-Elhanan's work about Israeli textbooks which could be argued to be false:

If it were shown that the British showed Ireland as an empty lot in the map, would they not be totally ridiculed & scorned?

Assertion no. 4
“The Palestinian occupied territories are depicted as part of the state of Israel, but their
Palestinian inhabitants are missing from maps, photographs and graphs. This is a device to
legitimate the conquest and the occupation of these lands.”13

A map which appears on the next page in Dr. Peled-Elhanan’s paper (taken from a book which is
missing from her list of sources) refutes this assertion. The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are
indeed shown as parts of Israel, but the Palestinian villages in them are marked on the map.
Similar maps appear in Book 6, page 170 and Book 7, page 122. A photograph of Palestinian
youths throwing stones at Israeli soldiers during the Intifadah against Israeli occupation appears
in Book 3, page 255, and Book 4, page 321. These are hardly a “device used to legitimate
occupation.”

http://www.impact-se.org/docs/reactions ... ed2006.pdf

According to this, she has a history of presenting Israeli textbooks as 'racist' by misrepresenting her sources.

I am not denying that Israeli sources are NOT sources of unhealthy indoctrination. On the contrary; I have first hand accounts corroborating it. Many Israelis I've met have had opinions that any Western educated person would find, well, unsavory.

[noemon]

I had a look at the paper you present and only a preliminary view shows how biased the author of the paper is while he is in fact confirming the bias of Israeli textbooks, for example his refutation of Assertion 4 the one you presented does not cite any evidence unlike he does with the other bits, which can only lead one to assume that it is completely made up, but the real mackoy is Assertion 1. The lady claims that 'Palestinian' is avoided by Israeli textbooks and replaced with Arab and this man presents all the cases where 'Palestinian' is mentioned in Israeli textbooks and the only cases presented as cited by him are within a negative context:

We can observe that this assertion is contradicted by the extensive use in the books of the term ‘Palestinian’ in discussions of the historical conflict between two national movements in the country. Here is a short list of examples.
Book 2: “the Palestinian national demands” (page 160), "the Palestinians' national awakening" (page 166), “the Palestinians’ arguments against Zionism” (page 181) and other such mentions on pages 161, 167 and more.
Book 3: “the crystallization of Palestinian nationalism” (page 79), “the Arab-Palestinians’ national demands” (page 83), “Palestinian nationalism” (page 92) and other mentions on pages 81, 87, 95, 182 and more.
Book 4: “the Arab-Palestinian public” (page 95), "the Arab-Palestinian nation”

While the neutral words like 'nation', 'public' suddenly become 'Arab-Palestinian', by the time you reach to farm you 've got to 'Arab'.

So if these are the instances where Palestinian is mentioned then one can guess that in all other instances like for example Palestinian wheat, or Palestinians farms, or Palestinians factory, the Palestinian is replaced with Arab, which is exactly what the lady is claiming.

Last but not least, Israeli scholars as per the OP are protesting against the racism of Israeli textbooks by removing their own names from the credits. So it does not really allow much room for doubt.