wat0n dishonestly claimed that the Christian Church raised a lawsuit against its own elected Patriarch:
wat0n wrote:I would perfectly understand if their accounts were frozen because of a lawsuit raised by members of the community against its leadership alleging legal wrongdoing.
Reality:
PA report wrote:Key Synod members continued to defend the Patriarch and denied any involvement by him in the deal.
They augmented their support and backing of the Patriarch with a petition signed by 55 priests, archimandrites and bishops. They forwarded the petition to the Greek Prime Minister, demanding action or intervention against some clerics who incited against the Patriarch and inflamed tempers against him.
The leaders of the instigators met on May 4, 2005 to organize the mutiny. They decided to prepare a petition containing their demands for the removal and boycotting the Patriarch.
More reality from Haaretz:
Haaretz wrote:The Israeli government refused to approve Irineos' election as Jerusalem's patriarch for two years as ministers accused him of hating Israel and being close to Yasser Arafat.
In January 2004, the government gave its approval for his appointment, as required by tradition. Irineos negotiated the sale of the properties to a Jewish buyer and signed the deal soon afterward, in what could be seen as a payoff for making his installation as patriarch possible.
More reality from the Independent:
Independent wrote:Moreover, as Patriarch Theophilus explains, "our bank accounts are frozen" so that money due to the patriarchate "is impossible for us to receive in our own name".
Yesterday, the Jerusalem District Court deferred a hearing on an appeal by Theophilus's lawyers until tomorrow. These unholy wars arise because for two years after his election, the government of Israel – unlike those of Greece and Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority – has not recognised Theophilus as the Patriarch. Theophilus says that "the White House recognised us from the outset. I have received a very nice letter from President Bush signed by himself." Last month he declared that the government of Israel had "for the first time interfered in the inner functioning and administration of a spiritual institution and tried directly and indirectly to determine who is going to be the spiritual leader of the Church and the community".
Though he is, at times, coy about using the word, Theophilus's basic charge is that for two years attempts have been made to blackmail him into completing and approving the "unfulfilled" – and in political terms radioactively sensitive – deals made during the tenure of his predecessor. Last month, he detailed his complaints about his treatment by Israel – which he has described as a "humiliation and ridiculousness" – at a meeting with Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, during her last trip to Jerusalem.
Drlee wrote:And, even you must admit, resolved by the Israeli courts IN FAVOUR of the person you claim was abused.
Get a grip please, between 2002-2012 Israel froze the bank accounts of the church for the majority of this decade on 3 separate occasions under 2 separate Patriarchs, people rammed the Patriarchs car and threatened him directly to sell the land to the Israeli settlers, Israeli recognition came only after the coercion had succeeded.
Drlee wrote:Nonsense. US Courts exercise ultimate law enforcement authority over church dealings and so do the Israeli courts. All religious organisations ought to ultimately be subject to the civil law.
Are you seriously claiming that the US freezes the bank accounts of religious institutions to coerce them to steal their land? Because that would be utter news to me.
Drlee wrote:As to the nonsense about not being able to maintain the tomb. The tomb is fine and was never in danger of damage. You are engaging in hyperbole.
The Guardian wrote:Patriarch Theophilos III told Maariv: "If nothing changes we intend to announce within a few days, for the first time in centuries, that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is closed."
Drlee wrote:I have resisted posting story after story (and I could find hundreds) about Christians being persecuted, murdered, raped, enslaved and such under Islam.
You spoke about the treatment of the Christian Church in the
Holy Land and Israel is treating the Church far worse than the Muslims did as all these events clearly prove and these are taking place in the modern-day, not in the distant past as a result of wars unless you are going to pretend now that Israel is at war with Christianity.
Not impressed. Not at all. Religious organizations must persevere. And this one did.
That it persevered does not mean that she was not persecuted as you claim and of course it persevered and it will continue to persevere even if Christians like you do not even recognise her persecution.
PA report wrote:The buyers' lawyer is a well-known Israeli, who is famous for his experience in representing the extreme right, including Arfing Moscowitz, Himont Company, Alert Cohanim, ELAD institution. All of them are well-known extreme rightists. Their members, aims and practices are known. They seek to buy Arab property within the walls of the Old City and in East Jerusalem and in various locations, with the aim of expanding Israeli control over settlement sites in Arab Jerusalem. Among the well-known cases in which he represents settlers, the lease of Saint John building in the Old City. It turned out that the Israeli government stood behind its purchase, and paid for it from the budget of the Ministry of Housing. The buyers’ lawyers have strong and diversified relations with political circles from the Right wing which support his clients.
Hardly two weeks had passed Mr. Cohen (Mati) and Mr. Levin had reiterated their request from the Patriarch and the Archimandrite. To cooperate with them to conclude the deals, Levin threatened that unless the Patriarch cooperates with them, a grave thing will happen. Once again, the Patriarch insisted on his unwillingness to talk about or enter into any negotiations regarding any deal with Papadimas. He insisted upon seeing the document. The response was that the Patriarch had until March 17, 2005 to decide, otherwise, “an atomic bomb” will fall at the Patriarch’s court. Indeed, on March 17, 2005, they called the Patriarch and renewed their warning. They gave him until 5 pm to respond or “the bomb will explode”.
You can pretend all you like but at the end of the day you will have to answer to your own conscience at least. It is not my fault that Israelis are so brazen and that they do not give a shit about the Christians in the Holy Land, unlike you pretended that they do.
EN EL ED EM ON
...take your common sense with you, and leave your prejudices behind...