Israeli Apartheid - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By noemon
#14690767
These are some of the Israeli laws posted recently about discrimination against Arabs in Israel.

Baruch Kimmerling-Israeli Professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem-Summarising his PhD on Zionist Land Management-Berkeley wrote:Israel is the only “democracy” in the world that nationalized almost all if its land and prohibited even the leasing of most of agricultural lands to non-Jews, a situation made possible by a complex framework of legal arrangements with the Jewish National Fund, including the Basic Law: Israel Lands (1960), the Israel Lands Law and Israel Lands Administration Law (1960), as well as the Covenants between the Government of the State of Israel and the WZO of 1954 and the JNF of 1961.



wiki on ILA wrote:Starting from the beginning of the 2000s there is an ongoing debate including governmental officials whether different issues arising from the national ownership of the land can be solved. On July 12, 2003 and on February 4, 2004 the Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee met as the committee for the Constitution by Broad Consensus to discuss this problem.[1]

One basic issue was the difference in the rights of Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens. Palestinians could not purchase land in most Jewish areas. Nor could Palestinians expand their villages as population growth demanded, but Jewish villages could readily expand as needed. These issues have not been addressed in the land reform discussions.


One Israeli prosecutor tried to change these discriminatory laws inscribed in the ILA and JNF statutes but unfortunately his efforts were in vain as nothing came of it since 2005 when he initiated intergovernmental debate on the issue.

All land managed by the Israel Lands Administration, including land owned by the Jewish National Fund, will be marketed without discrimination or limits including to non-Jews, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz decided yesterday.
The revolutionary decision followed a discussion held in Mazuz's office attended by senior members of the state prosecutor's office and the legal advisers to the JNF and the ILA. The ruling was made in preparation for the state's response to High Court petitions filed on the matter.
The state prosecutor's office believes it will not be able to defend before the High Court the policy of allocating Jewish National Fund land to Jews only. Within the next few weeks, the state is supposed to inform the High Court of its position on petitions filed against the Israel Lands Administration, which prevents non-Jews from participating in tenders for JNF land.
Haaretz has learned that senior members of the state prosecutor's office believe that the policy is unreasonably discriminatory against non-Jews, and will be very difficult to defend in court.
In August and October last year, three petitions against the policy were filed with the High Court. The petitioners - the Arab Center for Alternative Planning, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, and Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel - charge that the policy is flawed and runs contrary to the fundamental principles of Israel as a democratic state, and first and foremost, the principle of equality.
Mazuz said at yesterday's meeting that the state could not defend the discrimination against Arabs in the framework of the marketing of JNF land by the ILA. Nevertheless, in order to preserve the original designated purpose of the JNF, which is formally defined as an organization working "on behalf of the Jewish nation," and in the name of the interests of the Diaspora Jews, it was decided that if any ILA tender for land owned by the JNF is won by a non-Jewish citizen, the ILA will transfer alternative land to the JNF.
This arrangement, say Justice Ministry sources, will achieve two objectives. On the one hand, it will preserve the principle of equality and cancel the discrimination against Arabs. On the other hand, the JNF will retain its current quota - some 13 percent of state land - and this land will continue to come under the JNF's principle of using this land "for the purpose of settling Jews."
Yesterday's discussion culminated in a decision to set up a joint state-JNF team to work out the finer details of Mazuz's decision. The team is expected to submit its recommendations within 90 days, and the state prosecution will then submit its response to the High Court petitions.
Justice Ministry sources said that in light of the attorney general's decision, the state prosecutor's office is likely to argue that the petitions are superfluous and should be rejected, subject to the fact that from now on any citizen can participate in an ILA tender for acquiring land or purchasing a housing unit.
The JNF, which is wholly owned by the World Zionist Organization, was established in 1901 and has since been collecting donations from Diaspora Jews for the purpose of purchasing land in Israel. The JNF leases the land to Jews only, in keeping with the fund's regulations.
Since 1961 JNF land has been marketed by the ILA, a state-run entity that manages state land. In contrast to the practice with regard to other state land, non-Jews are currently prohibited from participating in ILA tenders for leasing JNF land.
After the petitions were filed, senior members of the state prosecutor's office informed the heads of the JNF and ILA that it would be very difficult to defend the policy in court.
JNF sources have accused the state prosecutor's office of giving in to post-Zionist trends, and too easily waiving the principle that the State of Israel is the state of the Jewish people.
The JNF published a survey last week that shows that more than 70 percent of the Jewish public in Israel is opposed to allocating JNF land to non-Jews, while more than 80 percent prefer Israel to be defined as the state of the Jewish people and not the state of all its citizens.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/ag-mazuz-rules-j ... s-1.148348



Canadians for Peace and Justice in the Middle East wrote:
Basic Law: Israel-Lands Law and Israel-Lands Administration Law
In 1960, these two laws were formulated on behalf of Israel government deeming that the land controlled by the JNF would now be administered by a single authority, the Israel Land Administration (ILA).25 However, it was agreed that “the lands controlled by the ILA shall be administered according to the principles of the JNF,” meaning that a Jew has a right to receive land controlled by the ILA, but a non-Jew does not enjoy this right “unless the apartment or plot of land is located in the special 'zone of residence' assigned to non-Jews.”26 The JNF effectively controls the ILA and dominates committees set up to vet applicants to hundreds of rural communities. Given the JNF’s declared goal of “purchasing and developing land as a national resource of the Jewish people, by the Jewish people, and for the Jewish people,” it forbids the ILA from selling or leasing of the land to non-Jews.27 This arrangement has allowed it to discriminate against Arab citizens on behalf of the Israeli government, denying them access in the form of leasing and cultivation to 93% of the land.28
Although the Israeli Supreme Court itself has filed a petition that the policies of the JNF violate Israeli anti- discrimination laws, the Israeli Knesset approved the renewal of the JNF Law in July 2007, in its preliminary reading allowing the JNF to continue the practice of refusing to lease land to Arab citizens. Due to criticism from Arab Members of Knesset a temporary settlement was reached where the JNF was prevented from discriminating on grounds of ethnicity. However, every time land is sold to a non-Jew, the ILA will compensate it with an equivalent amount of land therefore ensuring the total amount owned by Israeli-Jews remains unchanged.29 This is indeed another instance of legal manipulation by the Israeli government.

The Palestinian-Arab citizens of Israel face unique challenges. Discrimination and racism pervade every level of Israeli society, from individual perspectives to legal and systemic policy choices which amount to institutionalized racism. However it is the structural discrimination within the Israeli legal system that provides the foundation for institutionalized bias. This precludes the Palestinians in Israel from enjoying their full civic, political, economic, social and cultural rights. In fact, a recent report submitted by The Adalah Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination found 17 laws of which are discriminatory on their face, in that they either relate only to the rights of Jews in Israel or abridge the rights of Arab citizens of the State and 3 laws which use neutral language and general terminology but have a discriminatory effect on Arab citizens.8

Constitutional Equality
There is no provision in Israeli law for the concept of constitutional equality. It is absent from The Basic Law: Human Dignity and Freedom, which since 1992 has served as Israel’s constitutional Bill of Rights.9 While laws exist which protect the equal rights of disadvantaged groups such as women and the disabled, no general statute relates to the right to equality for all citizens. Moreover, there is no statute which specifically protects equal rights for the major Arab minority in Israel.

Education
The Israeli education system is based on the State Education Law of 1953. This Law established a system of schools designed to meet the explicit demands of the Jewish community. The objectives the Israeli education system as explicitly stated in Article 2 of this Law are to exclusively advance Jewish culture and Zionist ideology.15
Discriminatory Curriculum
The Minister of Education and Culture is authorized to set education curricula for each state institution and the Arab schools are not outside of the boundaries of Article 2 of this law. As no autonomous educational system has been established for the Arab community, Palestinian students are subjected to an educational curriculum which has been developed by and for the Jewish population: e.g. Arab students are expected to spend more time studying the Torah than their own religious texts; Zionist literature and poetry are included in the standard curriculum, but not Palestinian classics; matriculation exams include questions on Judaism, but not the Muslim, Christian, or Druze faiths.16 In addition, studies have found that Israeli textbooks contain persistent negative and racist references to Arabs and Palestinians.17
The Ministry of Education does not deny that the reason for such direct discrimination in the curriculum is fear that Arab history, culture, elements and symbols will “rouse national feelings among the Arab citizens.”18 In fact, the renowned works of Palestinian poet and writer Mahmoud Darwish can be taught in the Israeli-Jewish curriculum, but are vehemently excluded from the Arab education system due to such fears, thus denying the needs of this community as a minority with a heritage and national affiliation.
Discriminatory Funding for Education
The inferior status of Arab schools is also largely due to discriminatory budget allocations, resulting in a lack of funding and resources. While nearly 1/3 of all Jewish students have received support from government- funded enrichment programs for impoverished students, Arab students are not eligible for these programs. In fact, there is no funding for educational enrichment programs for Arab students in Israel.19 Also, government funded pre-schools do not operate in Arab towns or villages, and more than half of the tens of thousands of Arab children with special needs are denied access to appropriate classes or schools. The result of these and other societal discrepancies is that the education opportunities available to Arab students is vastly inferior to that provided to Jewish students and is reflected in the drop-out rates which, among 16-17 year olds is 40% for Arabs and 9% for Jews.20


Further claims in the report are that Israel prevents its Arab citizens from marrying Palestinian partners if they wish to reside in Israel; the state exercises extreme discrimination in the budgets it allots Arab towns; Arab citizens have been evacuated from their Negev homes under the claim that the homes were illegal; standards for accepting Arab students into higher-education institutions are discriminatory; state laws give official status to Jewish cultural institutions, but not to Arab ones; and the government has not issued any amendments to address the protection of Muslim and Christian holy sites.
The ICERD, drafted in 1966, was one of the first human rights treaties to be adopted by the UN. There are 173 signed states, including Israel, which ratified the ICERD in 1979. The convention commits member states to amend or cancel national laws and policies that create or perpetuate any form of racial discrimination.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/adalah-cent ... y-1.213048


The Adalah Inequality Report.

http://www.adalah.org/uploads/oldfiles/ ... h_2011.pdf

layman wrote:Boycott them too ... no? .. oh, interesting ... :D


Not really, while noone disagrees that several Arab states have several discrimination laws and I have spoken numerous times about them, the BDS is about the occupation and the right of refugees to their own properties.

None of these countries you imagine are occupying other countries or peoples and denying them access or compensation to their own properties.
#14690771
Those are just measures to ensure Arabs wont take too much land within the country. they alredy have plenty of land that they dont even pay taxes for.

The BDS demands that the so called "refugees" will "return" (how can they return if they never even been here?) I would understand if this movement would focus on occupation and no try to eliminate Israel as a country.
this movement will fail as it demands something that cannot be fullfiled
User avatar
By noemon
#14690773
The right of return says that they are entitled to either return on their properties or receive compensation for them.
By layman
#14690779
The right of return is demographic suicide for Israelis. Especially when they seem to want it to include descendants. Compensation would be an ideal solution.

The whole Jewish state is pretty repulsive in principle to me but there are 6 million people there who have every reason to fear theiir lives and their children's lives. The hate against them is just so intense across the whole region. It's undeniable.

Your point on the lack of occupation in the Arab states is true but I am not sure Palestinians in bordering countries are better off than the occupied in Israel. Certainly not better than the Arab Israeli citizens anyway. Maybe I am wrong on the former.
User avatar
By Dave
#14690792
Who cares about their lives?

The real danger is that if they lose control of their state they'll move to our countries. The liberals and the Jewish lobby will combine to make sure there is no resistance to accepting the Jewish refugees in the event Israel falls to the Arabs.

They don't give a shit about our issues (and often work against us) so we should offer them no particular support, but working toward their destruction could backfire badly against us.

That said this is all a bit ridiculous, Israel isn't going anywhere any time soon.
By wat0n
#14690796
noemon wrote:One Israeli prosecutor tried to change these discriminatory laws inscribed in the ILA and JNF statutes but unfortunately his efforts were in vain as nothing came of it since 2005 when he initiated intergovernmental debate on the issue.


That's not true. The change IIRC was implemented in 2007.

All of it in line with the Israeli Supreme Court ruling in the Katzir case.

noemon wrote:Not really, while noone disagrees that several Arab states have several discrimination laws and I have spoken numerous times about them, the BDS is about the occupation and the right of refugees to their own properties.

None of these countries you imagine are occupying other countries or peoples and denying them access or compensation to their own properties.


How were, say, Iraqi Kurds restituted or compensated for losing their homes in the Anfal operation?
User avatar
By noemon
#14690798
wat0n wrote:That's not true. The change IIRC was implemented in 2007.


One basic issue was the difference in the rights of Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens. Palestinians could not purchase land in most Jewish areas. Nor could Palestinians expand their villages as population growth demanded, but Jewish villages could readily expand as needed. These issues have not been addressed in the land reform discussions.


wat0n wrote:How were, say, Iraqi Kurds restituted or compensated for losing their homes in the Anfal operation?


Instead of being cryptic you need to be specific, concise and clear if you want your argument to be taken seriously.

Provide all the relative information for your analogy to be taken seriously.

Saddam's Iraq has been under sanctions, invaded and the Anfal genocide has been recognised as such by western countries. So do not see what exactly are the evil, one-sided, prejudiced and biased westerners did not do to Saddam but they are doing to Israel by singling it out. :eh:
By wat0n
#14690809
One basic issue was the difference in the rights of Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens. Palestinians could not purchase land in most Jewish areas. Nor could Palestinians expand their villages as population growth demanded, but Jewish villages could readily expand as needed. These issues have not been addressed in the land reform discussions.


The whole point of the Katzir ruling, and by extension Mazuz's legal opinion, is that non-Jews should be able to buy or lease land from the state in predominantely Jewish areas (and vice-versa): Origin cannot be used as a reason to deny a person to lease or buy land from the state.

As for the growth of Arab areas, that is indeed an area in which Israel lags behind - but, interestingly, the Israeli government has been lately moving to address them as well.

noemon wrote:Instead of being cryptic you need to be specific, concise and clear if you want your argument to be taken seriously.

Provide all the relative information for your analogy to be taken seriously.

Saddam's Iraq has been under sanctions, invaded and the Anfal genocide has been recognised as such by western countries. So do not see what exactly are the evil, one-sided, prejudiced and biased westerners did not do to Saddam but they are doing to Israel by singling it out. :eh:


You seemed to imply that Arab governments have restituted compensated people whose properties were taken by them.

As I think you know, the Kurds of Iraq are one of those non-Arab groups as the government of Iraq, under Saddam Hussein's regime, expelled and killed quite a few of them in the al-Anfal operation. As far as I'm aware, the Iraqi government - be it Saddam's regime or the current one - never provided any compensation to Kurdish property owners who lost their property back then. Furthermore, Saddam did not become a pariah in the West for the al-Anfal operation but for invading American allies in the Gulf and compensating the Kurds was never mentioned as a reason to enact sanctions against Iraq or as a condition to drop them.

Likewise, plenty of Arab regimes have never restituted or compensated the Jews who lost their properties before, during and after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, and I do not recall any campaigns in the West by those who are so concerned about Palestinian property rights to get them to do so.
User avatar
By noemon
#14690814
The whole point of the Katzir ruling, and by extension Mazuz's legal opinion, is that non-Jews should be able to buy or lease land from the state in predominantely Jewish areas (and vice-versa): Origin cannot be used as a reason to deny a person to lease or buy land from the state.


The quote I provided clearly and explicitly says:

These issues[of Arab discrimination in leasing property] have not been addressed in the land reform discussions.


You seemed to imply that Arab governments have restituted compensated people whose properties were taken by them.


Are the Kurds denied access to their homes? You imply that the west is being biased, prejudiced and evil for thinking about the BDS which is about providing justice to the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation. Westerners have provided compensation, aided and honoured campaigns of Jews to receive justice regarding injustices served against them.

I am not aware of any Jewish/Israeli campaign at the moment that Jews or Israel have requested to be considered and their request has been rejected by the evil and biased westerners who dare consider the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation.

Western people tend to be considerate about injustices brought to their attention, claiming that western people have been inconsiderate to Jewish victims or more considerate to Palestinian victims than Jewish ones, then that is quite the claim, unbecoming and frankly ungrateful for all the support that Jews and Israel have received and are still receiving in both Europe and the US.
By wat0n
#14690827
noemon wrote:The quote I provided clearly and explicitly says:


And it is rather outdated, as there are reforms dealing with the master plans of Arab-majority areas with a goal of expanding them being passed a of late.

noemon wrote:Are the Kurds denied access to their homes?


Actually, yes. The Kurds were able to retake Kirkuk only recently as a result of ISIL's offensive in Iraq and the colllapse of the Iraqi government there. The Iraqi government, as far as I know, has not moved to restitute those properties that are still in its control or to compensate Kurd owners for them.

noemon wrote:You imply that the west is being biased, prejudiced and evil for thinking about the BDS which is about providing justice to the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation. Westerners have provided compensation, aided and honoured campaigns of Jews to receive justice regarding injustices served against them.

I am not aware of any Jewish/Israeli campaign at the moment that Jews or Israel have requested to be considered and their request has been rejected by the evil and biased westerners who dare consider the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation.


Dilatory tactics, nice.

It is most certainly true Arab regimes have provided zero compensation to those non-Arabs who lost property as a result of their policies. The fact that the West had no problem in compensating Jews who lost property as a result of anti-semitism in the West in WWII has no bearing in that simple truth, and in any event I am not even criticizing "the West" but only certain Westerners who in any event have little room to influence Western policy as, it turns out, the BDS movement itself is largely a far-leftist one that is largely ignored beyond the campus left and some trade unions.
User avatar
By noemon
#14690829
wat0n wrote:And it is rather outdated, as there are reforms dealing with the master plans of Arab-majority areas with a goal of expanding them being passed a of late.


The quote was taken from wiki about a month ago as you are well aware. Not outdated.

Dilatory tactics, nice.


Dilatory tactics is using currently utterly destroyed Iraq as proof that westerners are biased against Israel. Funny stuff.

It is most certainly true Arab regimes have provided zero compensation to those non-Arabs who lost property as a result of their policies. The fact that the West had no problem in compensating Jews who lost property as a result of anti-semitism in the West in WWII has no bearing in that simple truth, and in any event I am not even criticizing "the West" but only certain Westerners who in any event have little room to influence Western policy as, it turns out, the BDS movement itself is largely a far-leftist one that is largely ignored beyond the campus left and some trade unions.


You imply that the west is being biased, prejudiced and evil for thinking about the BDS which is about providing justice to the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation. Westerners have provided compensation, aided and honoured campaigns of Jews to receive justice regarding injustices served against them.

I am not aware of any Jewish/Israeli campaign at the moment that Jews or Israel have requested to be considered and their request has been rejected by the evil and biased westerners who dare consider the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation.

Western people tend to be considerate about injustices brought to their attention, claiming that western people have been inconsiderate to Jewish victims or more considerate to Palestinian victims than Jewish ones, then that is quite the claim, unbecoming and frankly ungrateful for all the support that Jews and Israel have received and are still receiving in both Europe and the US.
By wat0n
#14690836
noemon wrote:The quote was taken from wiki about a month ago as you are well aware. Not outdated.


The article itself is outdated on that regard - and was written several years ago.

noemon wrote:Dilatory tactics is using currently utterly destroyed Iraq as proof that westerners are biased against Israel.


BDS supporters are most certainly biased against Israel. Coincidentally, there is an overlap between those who support BDS and those who opposed all and any sanctions against Saddam, anyway.

noemon wrote:You imply that the west is being biased, prejudiced and evil for thinking about the BDS which is about providing justice to the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation. Westerners have provided compensation, aided and honoured campaigns of Jews to receive justice regarding injustices served against them.

I am not aware of any Jewish/Israeli campaign at the moment that Jews or Israel have requested to be considered and their request has been rejected by the evil and biased westerners who dare consider the victims of the ongoing Israeli occupation.


You could at least change the wording of your answers when discussing here :lol:

noemon wrote:Western people tend to be considerate about injustices brought to their attention, claiming that western people have been inconsiderate to Jewish victims or more considerate to Palestinian victims than Jewish ones, then that is quite the claim, unbecoming and frankly ungrateful for all the support that Jews and Israel have received and are still receiving in both Europe and the US.


I have yet to see any major human rights movements in the West to get Arab regimes to restitute or compensate those Jews who lost their properties as a result of the policies of the said Arab regimes.

In any event, Western support for Israel has been driven, largely, by a desire to fulfill Western geopolitical aims rather than being disinterested (particularly during the Cold War). And make no mistake, this notwithstanding I'm pretty sure Israelis feel gratitude towards the West for its support - but that doesn't suddenly mean that movements like BDS campaign for property restitution or compensation of those Jews, including Israeli ones, for their dispossession by the Arab regimes.

Oh, and the issue of the Jewish exodus from the Arab world was most certainly brought to the international community's attention by Israel, as early as 1948 when it was ongoing. It was ignored like many other similar instances have.
User avatar
By noemon
#14690837
wat0n wrote:The article itself is outdated on that regard - and was written several years ago.


Nonsense, the article was written by Israelis and it was last edited in 2015.

You could at least change the wording of your answers when discussing here :lol:


Why? You did not address any of the points raised.

BDS supporters are most certainly biased against Israel. Coincidentally, there is an overlap between those who support BDS and those who opposed all and any sanctions against Saddam, anyway.

In any event, Western support for Israel has been driven, largely, by a desire to fulfill Western geopolitical aims rather than being disinterested (particularly during the Cold War). And make no mistake, this notwithstanding I'm pretty sure Israelis feel gratitude towards the West for its support - but that doesn't suddenly mean that movements like BDS campaign for property restitution or compensation of those Jews, including Israeli ones, for their dispossession by the Arab regimes.
Oh, and the issue of the Jewish exodus from the Arab world was most certainly brought to the international community's attention by Israel, as early as 1948 when it was ongoing. It was ignored like many other similar instances have.


Western governmental support for Israel has been driven due to various desires and interests, but the citizens support for Jewish victims that they are aware of has been driven by compassion, the same compassion driving people to support Palestinian victims.
By wat0n
#14690840
noemon wrote:Nonsense, the article was written by Israelis and it was last edited in 2015.


Nonsense, I remember quoting it here a few years ago if anything.

Not that it matters much when I provided you with some news on the matter.

noemon wrote:Why? You did not address any of the points raised.


From dilation, to denial now.

noemon wrote:Western governmental support for Israel has been driven due to various desires and interests, but the citizens support for Jewish victims has been driven by compassion, the same compassion driving some people to support Palestinian victims.


But seemingly not the same compassion which leads these people to demand restitution or compensation for the Jews who were dispossessed by Arab states :?:
User avatar
By noemon
#14690842
wat0n wrote:Nonsense, I remember quoting it here a few years ago if anything.


Nonsense indeed as the article was written by Israelis and last edited in 2015, that does not make the information contained therein outdated as you claim. Many articles in wikipedia have been written many years ago but they are being kept updated by their editors which in this case are Israelis. And I highly doubt Israelis would permit information in their own articles that makes Israel look bad.

Not that it matters much when I provided you with some news on the matter.


No you didn't.

wat0n wrote:From dilation, to denial now.


Oh dear, here we go with personal attacks and non-sense again. And below is the evidence that you still have issues with addressing the points in the posts you supposedly did.

wat0n wrote:But seemingly not the same compassion which leads these people to demand restitution or compensation for the Jews who were dispossessed by Arab states :??


Western people tend to be considerate about injustices brought to their attention, claiming that western people have been inconsiderate to Jewish victims or more considerate to Palestinian victims than Jewish ones, then that is quite the claim, unbecoming and frankly ungrateful for all the support that Jews and Israel have received and are still receiving in both Europe and the US.

Do you have any evidence that Jews brought injustices to the westerners and the westreners dismissed them or ignored them as you claim?

I am not sure how you believe that calling western people un-compassionate to the Jews helps your cause, wat0n.
By wat0n
#14690847
noemon wrote:Nonsense indeed as the article was written by Israelis and last edited in 2015, that does not make the information contained therein outdated as you claim. Many articles in wikipedia have been written many years ago but they are being kept updated by their editors which in this case are Israelis. And I highly doubt Israelis would permit information in their own articles that makes Israel look bad.


It was last edited in 2015, yet the article I posted is from this year. Even worse, that very paragraph is not sourced and doesn't mention events like the Katzir case or Mazuz's opinion which are mentioned in other articles (e.g. that regarding the JNF).

Also, Wikipedia doesn't mention that the editors were Israeli...?

noemon wrote:No you didn't.


Yes I did. I can post the news article again if you want.

noemon wrote:Oh dear, here we go with personal attacks and non-sense again. And below is the evidence that you still have issues with addressing the points in the posts you supposedly did.


Oh dear, you just engaged in denial above, twice.

noemon wrote:Western people tend to be considerate about injustices brought to their attention, claiming that western people have been inconsiderate to Jewish victims or more considerate to Palestinian victims than Jewish ones, then that is quite the claim, unbecoming and frankly ungrateful for all the support that Jews and Israel have received and are still receiving in both Europe and the US.

I am not sure how you believe that calling western people un-compassionate to the Jews helps your cause, wat0n.


And yet, as I said, Israel itself raised the issue of the dispossession of Jews from the Arab world as early as 1948 when it was ongoing. And, it kept doing so afterwards as well.
User avatar
By redcarpet
#14690852
Oxymoron wrote:It is simple the Palestinians are not welcome in the Jewish State of Israel, they can either accept second class citizenship, leave, or die.


Those that have criminal records and/or members of Palestinian's terror groups definitely.
User avatar
By noemon
#14690856
wat0n wrote:It was last edited in 2015, yet the article I posted is from this year. Even worse, that very paragraph is not sourced and doesn't mention events like the Katzir case or Mazuz's opinion which are mentioned in other articles (e.g. that regarding the JNF).
Also, Wikipedia doesn't mention that the editors were Israeli...?


You will notice that in that entire paragraph, all the proposals to sort out the issues have been dropped or are being discussed and even in the last paragraph, everything is about proposals and nowhere is it stated that the matter is settled and hence the paragraph from the article I quoted, that these issues remain conclusively unresolved.

Whenever you see:

This article is part of a series on the
politics and government of Israel


Or any other country, or topic, part of series related to the government of the US, or to LGBT rights, the editors affiliated with these countries take precedence, and I was mistaken the article was last edited in April 2016.

Yes I did. I can post the news article again if you want.


If you can quote something that shows that Israeli policy in land discrimination has been conclusively changed then sure.

And yet, as I said, Israel itself raised the issue of the dispossession of Jews from the Arab world as early as 1948 when it was ongoing. And, it kept doing so afterwards as well.


When you claim that western people were un-compassionate to Jewish people in 1948, you will need to provide some evidence for your claims wat0n, generally when you accuse and blame people of not caring for you, you will need to do better than simply claiming it yourself, especially when you are talking about a people that have raised memorials, have paid compensations, have supported Jews materially and psychologically, have issued decrees, have legislated support for them and so and forth. How do you figure that the token support the Palestinians receive for losing their homes is anyhow greater than the support Jewish victims have received from Europeans?
By wat0n
#14690860
noemon wrote:You will notice that in that entire paragraph, all the proposals to sort out the issues have been dropped or are being discussed and even in the last paragraph, everything is about proposals and nowhere is it stated that the matter is settled and hence the paragraph from the article I quoted, that these issues remain conclusively unresolved.


Umm? Those deal with the administrative functioning of the ILA and with a possible privatization of some of its land, not with the issue of Arab property rights.

noemon wrote:Whenever you see:

Or any other country, or topic, part of series related to the government of the US, or to LGBT rights, the editors affiliated with these countries take precedence, and I was mistaken the article was last edited in April 2016.


That doesn't mean that the last editors were Israeli, however. The page says the article was edited in 2015...

noemon wrote:If you can quote something that shows that Israeli policy in land discrimination has been conclusively changed then sure.


:roll:

I recall that the Court's Katzir ruling in itself forced policy changes, reflected on the new JNF land lease arrangements effective from 2007 caused by Mazuz's legal interpretation of it in 2005, itself to prevent a lawsuit by Adalah.

Indeed, there was an attempt by the Israeli far right to pass a law exempting the JNF from this, but failed.

noemon wrote:When you claim that western people were un-compassionate to Jewish people in 1948, you will need to provide some evidence for your claims wat0n, generally when you accuse and blame people of not caring for you, you will need to do better than simply claiming it yourself, especially when you are talking about a people that have raised memorials, have paid compensations, have supported Jews materially and psychologically, have issued decrees, have legislated support for them and so and forth. How do you figure that the token support the Palestinians receive for losing their homes is anyhow greater than the support Jewish victims have received from Europeans?


What about you prove that there is a major movement in the West to force Arab states to compensate Jewish property title deed owners similar to BDS?

I don't need to prove a negative here. Such movement doesn't exist because the Western public generally doesn't care - it cares even less about this than about BDS (itself a marginal movement all in all).
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